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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> needin a little horsepower =] /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1250442950 Message started by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 10:15:49 |
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Title: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 10:15:49 ok, so everyone wants me to get a bigger bike so i can cruise comfortably(not me the bike) at around 80 miles and hour or so. for some reason 70 takes a little work 2 get to on my bike is that normal? BUT i love my savage and don't want another bike(nor can i afford one lol) so i'm here to ask the experts what to do. please tell me there's a little horsepower hiding in the thumper lol i want to keep my header because i wrapped it, i'm sure there's a carb and exhaust kit that should do the trick. i was thinking of doing the cold air mod but it rains so much i don't want to risk it. it's not anytime soon, and i'll def want to fix my rubber cap leak thing that plagues the savages apparently. i looked into mine and i thought it was the bolt right behind the header but it is the cap rubber thing to the top left and it drips down. SO any suggestions? and i know i'm not going to get "i feel this makes it faster" u guys know what you are talking about that's why i ask! couldn't find too much on a google search lol |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/09 at 10:21:53 So remind me, whatcha got? wat muf? wat jets? wat air filter? year? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 10:36:37 yes sir! '95! stock filter, and jets as far as i know, and my muffler is stock except for a few holes drilled in it ;D how much faster is one with jets, carb & muffler? air filter too i guess! and is it ok to add a little power to these bad boys? i know some cars aren't made for much more then stock. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Duane on 08/16/09 at 11:01:13 I would say you need a chain conversion not HP. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 11:05:34 yeah? i don't think i wanna mess with things like that. paranoid about messing something up u know? when i do the engine mods, i'm hopin my mechanic buddy will help! |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by tomtaz1975 on 08/16/09 at 11:17:05 Rocco, I wanted more power too because traffic in Milwaukee can a little hectic on the highway and a top end of 65-70 seems dangerous at times. More power is more fuel/air, which means less restrictive air filter, rejet, and less restrictive muffler. I did that and 80-85 isn't a problem. I think top end is about 90 but I haven't tried yet or expect to try. Only caveat is once you mess with those things, it takes a while to dial everything in just right, so make sure the extra power is worth the hassle/expense involved. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/09 at 12:09:09 I have a '96 which most likely is the same as a '95. I say that because there's one here who really complained that the bike couldn't get up to what everyone else could, maybe cause the bike was geared different. Thinking back, I'm guessing it was a tranny or perception problem. Don't know which, it would take a tach and a ride to figure out. my '96 would do 70 easy, I think it went up to 80/85 stock before the knuckles went white. So let's talk thru the simple stuff and narrow it down. Everything on your bike is stock? (muf w/holes understood) Nuthin' replaced? I'm asking point blank cause I know there's a dif in carb's in the early years. I got an '02 with an '88 carb, it has a 155 main, it should pull like a raped ape. It's better than the '96 w/a slipping clutch, but not awsome. And the top end up my favorite hill is slower. (Don't worry I got a fix for it already, ;) Boohaha) The '96 ran best with a 150 and a supertrapp w/12 disks... 87 up my favorite hill. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/16/09 at 12:38:20 with a very slight down hill I can get to 100mph (indicated). I can run 95 with out any problems and I always could even with everything factory so that is kind of odd that some get 65-80 top. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 13:36:26 i see what u mean about hassle and expense but i guess it's cheaper then a new bike. what are the disks everyone speaks of? lol and if she did 90 i woulda never asked this question!! haha can i get a less restrictive muffler, a k&n filter and do maybe rejet the carb(though i have no idea how!) and that'll solve my problem? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Yonuh Adisi on 08/16/09 at 13:48:08 The disks are specific for a super trapp muffler. The disks allow you to tune the muffler to your mods for maximum efficiency. The more disks you put in, the freer flowing the muffler is. Rejetting, change muffler, and K&N air filter were my first mods, and they did help my power and top end. All of those mods are very easy to do. I also replaced my cam with one of Lancer's performance cams (his first generation though when I can I will be getting his second generation cam) and that helped even more. That too is rather easy to do yourself. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 13:55:49 thanks yonuh for clearing up the disk thing lol i was lost! ok so if i get a different brand muffler i won't even have those. ok so how do u rejet? is it expensive? how hard is it to take out the carb, it shouldn't be too difficult. and what brand of jets do u recommend? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Yonuh Adisi on 08/16/09 at 14:15:25 Contact Lancer for one his jet kits. They are very reasonably priced. To pull the carb can be a bit tricky if you don't pull the battery box first. The jets are under the bowl of the carb. When you remove the bowl, the jets are right there. You just unscrew the old ones and screw in the new ones. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/09 at 14:25:07 Get a jet kit as said and see how it goes would be the 1st step. You've drilled out the muff so it's a little more open. Do you have backfiring now? indicates lean I'd go up to a 150 or do the test if you don't have the jets yet. I know you're in swampland so this might be the hard part... find yourself a hill that you can go WOT and achieve a steady state speed. Doesn't matter which gear just as long as you can't wind it completely out. Now from WOT (wide open throttle) back off a little, does it seem to pick up a little? If so go up one jet size. My guess is you're gonna go up to 152.5, one size higher than mine cause you're one step above drownin' ;D |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by littlefights on 08/16/09 at 14:33:46 How much does the jet kit cost? Once you've got them in, do you have to pull the carb to adjust them? I just got a new muffler and am wanting to rejet as well. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/09 at 14:42:18 check the tech section for the carb cleaning post and you'll know all about it. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 14:55:19 Those screws in the carb are not good quality. Soft crappy stuff that looks like metal & sticks to a magnet, tho Im sure its just silly-putty with some metal filings in it. SO, Have the right tools. Maybe Digger will drop in & explain it, maybe Ill get it right? Dont bet on it. Yall keep me straight here.. The screwdriver tip looks like a Phillips, but is called a JIS. If there is a dot on the head of the screw, near the X, then its JIS. A hand held impact ( About $5.00 at Harbor Freight) will drive the screwdriver firmly into the head of the screw & give it a twist & break it loose. Suggest you replace the screws with Allen heads, stainless steel. Use Never Seize going back together. If you go for the Supertrapp, be sure to clean it very well, or the manufacturing oils will make it turn blue & the warranty wont cover that. Also, dont skimp on the High Heat Never Seize when the disks go in, or changing the number will be hell. Dont ask me how I know. All these things are easy, technically. Tools & patience is really all thats required. The people here can & will talk you thru it. Youll grow as a mechanic & youll see your bike in a whole new light. You will feel different about yourself, as you develop a new skill set. This bike is easily capable of running 80 & pull strong getting there. You do these things & youll love the ride. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/16/09 at 15:07:07 I have a drilled out stock muffler,I went to 152 main and up one jet up on low speed,Only went to 80 mph stock,because thats all I wanted to go,It was still pulling strong at 80 mph,It pulls a lot better now with the richer jets,Left the spacer stock.There is no doubt in by mine that it will do 90 mph or a little better.I don't like the allen bolts I put in, its a lot quick with the screws. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 15:54:09 its a lot quick with the screws. Yea, Allens are slower, no doubt. I guess some Stainless Steel phillips would be allright. As long as anti-seize gets used, they wont get stuck& strip out. Also, the allens make it easier to drop the bowl while the carb is mounted, I think. Doesnt it>? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by seviersavage on 08/16/09 at 16:58:08 I went the rejet way first, nice improvement, a few more horses. But as always I gotta have more. Now I've done the VM carb with UFO Dial a Jet, Supertrapp exhaust, K&N filter and Lancers Cam. I'm stopping there. Mucho more horespower. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/16/09 at 17:00:13 No you just need a good short screwdriver,I took out the original screws that way ,but it was a new bike,I left the carb in place,You have to pretend your lifting the hole bike up when you take out a hard screw, a lot of pressure.I like the screwdriver because you can just spin it. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/16/09 at 17:01:57 4241545F52544346585D5D58505C42310 wrote:
Did you every race another S40 in a high gear roll on to see how much more power it has. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by seviersavage on 08/16/09 at 17:19:48 No, Ya coming down Bill? Seriously I would like to compare it to a stock bike cause I've sorta forgotten how it was. I guess though to be fair I would have to find another rider at 240 like me. But hey a dyno run would tell huh? Sevier |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 17:22:15 Not having that carb mounted does mean it can move. Gotta get it set up so you can get a good hold of it & get on those screws. Like Bill said, he just had a screwdriver, but many others have started with just a screwdriver & wound up with stripped out screws. I suggest you go at it to win on the first pass, instead of seeing if the cheap way works. Once the screws are boogered up, it gets harder. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by PTRider on 08/16/09 at 17:35:52 Supertrapp http://www.jcmotors.com/showproduct.aspx?productid=6622 $270. 155 main jet Jets, $4 Hiflo air filter, $15. Remove the jet needle spacer, $0. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/16/09 at 17:38:13 7D7E6B606D6B7C79676262676F637D0E0 wrote:
My brother who I was in business with 45 years,Started driving motorcycles at the same time Both had Yamaha RD 200,I went to Suzuki he stayed with yamaha, Every time we did something we tried each other in a 40-70 mph roll on,Even when we put a windshield on so we new exactly what ever change did. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/16/09 at 17:40:42 17100F5C0 wrote:
How much faster is it on a 40-70 mph roll on than a stock S40 |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by clueless on 08/16/09 at 17:47:05 I have rejetted, put on a hd exhaust and high flow air filter. Still struggled to keep up with my riding pals on the slab. Did the chain conversion and am much, much happier. We rode about a hundred miles today and I had a great time. Now, they can still leave me behind, but that happens at speeds that I don't like to be on two wheels. Their rides.. HD Roadking with all the performance stuff and a beemer 1200 crotch rocket. You could say a quite diverse group! Go with the chain conversion. Read the threads. It's quite easy! |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by clueless on 08/16/09 at 17:49:01 Forgot to add... do the Verslavy mod for peace of mind!!! |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by srinath on 08/16/09 at 18:06:35 7F7C69626F697E7B656060656D617F0C0 wrote:
Hehe, I am pretty much 238 lb or so soaking wet ... I have an 00 with 86 carb with a 155 main in it. Its a blast, easy 95+ indicated. The 87 I have runs well but never run it to the 9's yet. Wont say it struggles to reach 70 though, It may struggle to reach 90 ... maybe. The 87 somehow has a better working tranny than the 00. I think 4 speeds are right for this bike. 5 is just too many in too small a space (in terms of rpm). Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by littlefights on 08/16/09 at 19:21:35 I was poking around online looking for a jet kit, but I can only find ones that say they are for '00 bikes and above. I've got an '86 - will those kits work? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by smitty1 on 08/16/09 at 19:26:28 get a bigger bike, I've got a 2007 s40 as my commuter and I like it a lot. As it's a good little cruiser too. Cruising is 50-60mph, if your doing 70+ get a sport bike or as i said a 800cc or bigger. smitty1 |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 20:48:11 holy crap i got alot of replies! lol my neighbor has a pipe that he pulled off his big honda 1800 that he wants to give me, maybe i should look at it lol ok, so if i get the jet kit(will the 2000 and up work?) i also saw it called "stage one" are there different options for different results? and does the k&n result in power gain? and i read about a hole in the airbox being drilled? what is the difference between chain and belt drivability wise? this is so awesome, i can wait to put a little more grunt under her! and i do know the feeling of working on her, it's just all been electrical and cosmetic so far! maybe that's why i love her so much! and someone asked if i backfire HE11 YEAH I DO!! she grunts farts rips and snorts and i wouldn't have it any other way!! |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by matt_savage on 08/16/09 at 21:19:23 Rocco, I had the same problem/scenario as you--struggled above 60 mph stock 96 thumper. This is what I did and it worked wonders. DO AS FOLLOWS for more horsepower and top end... Get Lancer's jet kit~$25.00 Get a K&N type cone filter off Ebay or Lancer~$25.00 Get a take-off muffler from a Harley Sportster 1200~$25.00 Get a 1 5/8" exhaust C-clamp off Ebay~$5.00 Now drill a 1/2" hole down thru the baffle on the muffler. I bought a real long 1/2" drill bit but ask around and someone may have one you can borrow. Mount this new muffler on the bike with the 1 5/8" C clamp. This will give you the sound and performance you're looking for. The 52.5 pilot jet and 152.5 main jet worked perfectly for me (VA humidity and close enough to sea level). Maybe a slightly different jets will work better for you but only way to know is to try. FWIW I'm just under 2 full turns out on the air mixture screw. =This worked wonder for me and I can run 70-75 mph all day and still get 50+ mpg. The drilled hole in the baffle will still give you a nice pop pop pop pop on hard decel you're obviously into ;) -Matt |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/16/09 at 21:31:31 sweeeet! thank u for the step by step! i'm gonna look into that right now! are there a bunch of jets included in the kit? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by ralfyguy on 08/17/09 at 04:53:44 My Lancer kit has a #55 pilot jet and a #150,#152,5 and #155 main jets, along with 3 brass washers for the jet needle mod. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 07:41:52 Dont do it all at once. The jetting & exhaust, yes, but drilling holes in air boxes, you want to do things like that slowly, so you can evaluate the results. Best answer is to run it & time it or hit the dyno, so you dont think its faster just because its louder. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by srinath on 08/17/09 at 08:22:50 BTW air flow or lack there of is the largest reason you may be getting poor performance. Less air makes it richer and being rich kills power production. I had a 650 honda nighthawk that was really gutless past 90 when I discovered its air box to carb boots were squished and collapsed. I put the things back in and fit them with hanger wire holding it in and open and it cleared up. In fact the 86 savage used to have a nice smooth air box to carb boot if I recall. The 87 on is ribbed and I suspect that boot was caving in under vacuum and that was why they did that. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 08:28:03 ok so one @ a time then! and how many jets are needed in the carb total? 4? i know there's upper and lower/ i should just take the muffler off completely lol! |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 08:38:06 2 jets, & access to the mixture screw is what you have. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 09:02:07 ok so it would be like a "55 and a 152.5" right? not all 4 of the aforementioned lol |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 09:19:27 Yea, like that. You pick a main & try it. Once youve had the carb apart, you can drop the bowl & change jets, on the bike. You can try different mains & adjust the white washer thickness, which is necessary. Thats a pretty nerve wracking event. Gotta get some tiny screws out & theyre down in a hole. Dont screw that up. Tools, quality tools. There are some Carb Tuning tips online, Lancer put them out. They are like a "paint by numbers" set of instructions. Youll need them. Ive been in & out of several carbs, & I need them. This is a potentially several days project. If you are gonna really do it & get the best performance possible, youll have to try different mains & make test runs & swap things back & test & make sure of what the results are. I need to go do it & do it right. I just wanted to make sure it was rich enough to not hurt it. & No one who rides these can afford to send it to the shop to have a carb tuned to the best performance. Its time consuming when done right.( Or someone got lucky ORRR, some of these guys just know what the heck theyre doing) Just gotta mess with it & enjoy studying how these changes affect performance. Once you understand how the different circuits work, where they overlap & what part of the RPM range each impacts, then itll make sense & youll be able to decide what to do to create a more rich or more lean burn at different parts of the RPM range. I didnt want to apply myself to that level at the time, just tossed a jet in & went. I am thinking I want to finish that project soon. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 09:45:10 ok so it's trial and error basically! i'm down for that. i'll just wing it like u did lol i just hope it doesn't take so long i start itching to ride! and my friend is just a dude who went through the mechanic school and has had bikes all his life, i'd never pay for someone to do anything car or bike wise unless it's something i can't do lol and i'll def take my time, nice and slow. taking off the tank used to scare me but now, it would take me about 10 minutes lol |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 09:57:22 Yep, as you gain experience you'll take steps deeper & deeper into the bike. When I got mine, I couldnt bring myself to do the valves, but I watched it done & read this forum & decided I could do it. No Way would I have even considered doing the cam chain back then, but with each experience it gets easier & I get faster ( read: Less slow). Ive yet to see anyone here take on a normal maintenance, jetting, tuning, oil change, etc, type task & hurt the bike. Ive seen 2 engines smoked by morons in a shop putting the oil filter in bakkerds. I think this is a great bike for learning how to do maintenance. Its a simple design & the help available here is sufficient to allow anyone with the least desire & ability to succeed. Success being found at the intersection of desire & ability. Edit: Your bike wont be down long for any one time after youve been into the carb the first time. The first time you'll be up against those stock screws & the white washer mod is a one time deal if you get lucky. Talk to Lancer & the carb specialists before you go in that part.Once is plenty. I went in twice. At worst, the bike will be down for a few hours at any one time.Not days. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 09:59:42 well said! i remember asking how tough they are when i laid her down! i think everyone here chuckled and thought of something that happened to their bike that caused a similar thought lol |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by verslagen1 on 08/17/09 at 10:15:28 The 1st time you'll need to take the carb out. once you get all the screws broke loose, you can just drop the bowl while it's on the bike. Get a small mirror and a stubby standard blade screwdriver and you're good to go. Another thing about jets is the mpg, I went up from a 145 to a 150 with no appreciable drop in mileage. but when I went up to 152, it dropped with no increase in performance. A telltale example of oversizing the jet. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 10:18:57 ok cool, so i'll be on the lookout for things like that! and i'm gonna set up a pay pal here soon so i can get a kit on the way. i'm also goin to look around for a harley muffler i can find for cheap or i'll do ebay. this is gonna be sweeeeet! does a k&n filter in stock air box offer much gain? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 10:31:14 Some. But, if youll go hunting for Old Fellers design, you can have a higher airflow over stock & ( I think) a better filtration than K&N. If I hadnt dropped the $$$ on a K&N before he did that, I woulda gone with his design. If you do the K&N, keep your old paper filter. If you want to ride while the K&N is drying, you can slap the paper back in for a day. Or, Mod the paper to Old Fellers idea & swap with the K&N. Never use compressed air on the K&N, it will ruin the warranty. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 11:22:06 yes sir! i'm gonna look into maybe a k&n or look into what u said. i assume a cone filter works better yeah? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Serowbot on 08/17/09 at 11:37:45 566B67676B040 wrote:
No, not really,... air boxes have a purpose... but if you like the look of a cone, use a cone... |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by bill67 on 08/17/09 at 11:39:24 I've tried K&N filters in motorcycles and cars ,and couldn't tell a bit of difference in power or gas mileage. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by clueless on 08/17/09 at 17:54:27 I have a cone and a rejet/muffler. Big difference over stock sh@t, |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by JohnBoy on 08/17/09 at 19:27:01 I gutted a stock filter and added a section of two inch nu-foam per Oldfeller's design. with no other changes. The diference was remarkable. I was forced to change the idle mix screw to get the run away backfire under control. I have since added Diamond Jim's long shot and rejetted. the bike now rides like the 650's of the 1960's. Old Feller was right on the money! and the cost to replace the filter is going to be about $1.75. Folks, it don't get better than that! Thanks OldFeller! JB |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/17/09 at 21:12:28 i read about 450's and 250's back then that topped out @ 100 mph that's what i need! i couldn't find the old feller mod, is it a cold air set up? or please post the link lol |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by dinsdale on 08/18/09 at 08:20:27 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1244205111/0#0 |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/18/09 at 08:38:40 thank u sir! unfortunately the cone filter part of the link sent me back to the home page so now i'm not too sure lol and what about desnorkeling the air box? any pros or cons to that? |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by dinsdale on 08/18/09 at 08:58:27 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1183926901/0 |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/18/09 at 12:23:17 thanks! i might do that! i wonder if it would still work in the stock air box. maybe a k&n and de snorkel. |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Duane on 08/18/09 at 13:20:31 I still say chain conversion if you just want top speed. ::) |
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Title: Re: needin a little horsepower =] Post by Rocco on 08/18/09 at 13:22:53 my friend just picked up a sportster muffler for free, one of his buddies had one layin around! is it a direct bolt in on the savage? or do i have to mod it? |
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