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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil consumption at full grin /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1250226621 Message started by verslagen1 on 08/13/09 at 22:10:20 |
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Title: Oil consumption at full grin Post by verslagen1 on 08/13/09 at 22:10:20 The new2me '02 seems to burn just as much oil as the '96 did. Now when I can actually stay under 70 the whole week, I'll end up with as much as I started with. But once it gets up to 75 the grin kicks in and I sware those grin muscles pull so tight my hand justs twists uncontrollably. And it's not until my destination comes into sight that a frown appears and the throttle shuts off. Hell I even blew right by another savage and all I could manage was a 2 fingered salute as he disappeared from sight. So what do you guys think? The greater speed vaporizes the oil better and blows it out the breather? Or the greater speed overheats the oil and boils it off? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Reelthing on 08/13/09 at 22:51:49 Huff'n'puff'n out the head tube - both my '95 and '02 will do it if running in high grin mode |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by verslagen1 on 08/13/09 at 22:56:43 So, can we run extra hose or something to keep the oil mist in? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Oldfeller on 08/14/09 at 00:12:42 Simply acknowledge that huff & puff at high speeds has been seen multiple times by list members and even documented on the first Dragon run trip. Having done so, simply carry a quart of your favorite oil along with you on those high speed trips to replace the very small amount lost to huff & puff when you are really cooking on the RPMS. Sometimes you have to accept we are using a large thumper engine that displaces a canned drink's worth of volume every time it goes up and down. It moves that much air around in the crank case ongoing, back & forth. Throw in two quarts of oil flying everywhere in that crankcase and churn it constantly with a huge crank and a large counterbalancer that are spinning madly and frothing everything together all the time. (hey, pick an oil with an anti-froth & anti-oxidation package in it -- Rotella comes to mind) Suzuki wasn't kidding when it put the large stainless mesh oil separator into the head assembly upstream from the puke tube that goes into an oil reservoir that lives UNDER your air box -- an air box reservoir they ask you to remember to drain at every oil change. And now we drop in hot cams and start running higher RPMS on purpose -- and what should we expect? Expect more oil to be exiting the dump tube. More oil in the airbox reservoir. More oil lost on high dragon speed trips. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Serowbot on 08/14/09 at 01:09:34 6D5A5A534B575651583F0 wrote:
I had to hunt back a few posts for it,... but I really liked Reelthing's explanation a couple of days ago... Makes good sense to me.... "With a multicylinder engine the oil mist air under the piston when it goes down has some place to go - another piston is going up - on a single it just goes out the head breather hose into the air and then right back in as the piston goes up - with a little loss along the way when some of this are is pulled into the air intake as well as some oil condenses and settles into the bottom of the air that should be drained with each oil change." |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Stimpy on 08/14/09 at 02:29:22 I HAD that problem, not anymore since the new rings and exhaust valve rebuilt, not a drop is missing now at any speed until now (600mi since rebuilt), but lets see how long this bliss lasts, problem seems to be extremely common too. In my case it's hard to tell exactly which one was at fault (valves or rings) since both bad parts would have the same result, BUT a guy in the savage forum from Spain, I've been talking to, some engineer, swears it's "ring blow-by" the engine produces at high RPMs by design regardless of ring conditions; he says s it's the bore/stroke size and that the oil heats up, thins and "climbs" the cylinder wall through the microscopic grooves at constant high speeds and gets burned along with the gas in the chamber. It is well known that most savage riders carry around their quart of oil when on the road cause of this. Oh, and it is NOT the oil vent, since my airbox was completely dry when I had this problem. Anyway, my 2cents C'ya |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by ralfyguy on 08/14/09 at 04:55:09 My airbox is almost dry, just a drop or two when I check. Makes me wonder with all that forces from huff and puff, if that affects the camchain too, as it runs right in the middle of everything. I once had the engine at idle and carefully removed the oil filler cap, and it about ripped the cap out of my hand as soon as I got it off. It was blowing hard and spewing oil out of the hole. It scared the heck out of me, as I didn't expect it that hard. I have a small leak in the clutch cover gasket right behind the oil filler cap, the leakage is bigger the more rpm's. Three times a new gasket couldn't solve it. And the surfaces are damage free. I wonder if my breather hose is clogged, or somewhere on the way up to the head all the way along the cylinder, and that causes that leak to reappear. Too much crank case pressure? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/09 at 06:41:00 Ive started it w/o the cap. It does make a racket & blow oil vapor out. I bet w/o that baffle under the cap it would just throw oil out. You can check your hose, hook onto the hose that comes out of the head & blow. Then pull the oil cap & see how it feels. No difference? Its plugged. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by vhfkid on 08/14/09 at 07:58:48 Verslagen, What oil are you using, 10-40, 20-50? I was flabergasted when we rode to California and only lost a few oz. in each bike, when using 20-50 dino. Before that I'd loose that same amount of oil in a 300 mile weekend trip, using 10-40 dino. We brought a quart each of 20-50 and I barely used a few oz. on the whole trip! :o Mind you this is riding in Texas-NM-AZ on Interstates, so 75-80 cruzing (Not the speed on the spedo, but actual road speed). |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Reelthing on 08/14/09 at 08:28:17 2E3D2A2B34393F3D3669580 wrote:
continue to ponder this - seems to me a far cooler running engine could be had if the huff in of air was fresh(filtered) air and puff out of hot air went away but a better oil mist recovery would be needed I think |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by verslagen1 on 08/14/09 at 12:10:01 7D636D60626F0B0 wrote:
Rottela Syn 5w40 |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by ralfyguy on 08/14/09 at 14:14:18 544750514E4345474C13220 wrote:
Rottela Syn 5w40 [/quote] Now that's some thin thin stuff there, no wonder... |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Oldnewguy on 08/15/09 at 11:58:10 "an air box reservoir they ask you to remember to drain" Please 'splain this to this newbe. I changed my oil and added the required 2 quarts. Had to suck some out! |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by verslagen1 on 08/15/09 at 13:48:03 In the middle at the bottom of the bike is a hose with a plug hanging down. When you remove that plug, expect something terrible to come out of it, oil/gas/water mixture. Every bike should get it's hose yanked every time you change the fluids. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/15/09 at 22:30:03 5F686861796564636A0D0 wrote:
continue to ponder this - seems to me a far cooler running engine could be had if the huff in of air was fresh(filtered) air and puff out of hot air went away but a better oil mist recovery would be needed I think [/quote] OOOOkay, I read my post & theres a HUGE hole in it. Okay, a Y, one leg up, to let the engine exhale, the oil condenses & drains back in a parallel oil line, to bypass the exhaust reed valve, but it needs its own valve, to close when the exhaust reed opens, so as to not blow the condensed oil back away from the engine. The return air is sucked in as the piston goes back up, thru the other leg of the Y. Its valve & the return oil valve work at the same time, so, it would be okay for the condensed oil line to go to the intake leg of the Y. How about an "exhaust" pointed up with an "intake"( the whole thing is a Y) & some reed valves on it? The Exhaust,( with an air filter on top) pointed up, would give the oil a place to condense & drain back to the crankcase, thru a small tube set into it just above the reed valve. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by verslagen1 on 08/15/09 at 23:11:20 My thought of the longer hose was to increase the chance that oil mist was not exhausted. Think about it, we have a fairly long large diameter hose as a breather. Is it long enough so the volume of air expelled is fully contained within the hose? If it was, the oil mist would never leave the hose and fresh air would never be ingested by the engine. If we have an inlet of air and exhaust thru this hose we may gain some cooling but we will lose alot more oil. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 07:45:29 Just how would a guy go about figuring out how big the pulse is? Flatten a paper bag & put it over the hose & see how much it inflates it? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Oldnewguy on 08/16/09 at 15:06:23 I found the hose ( same as a breather hose on a car?). No plug. OK? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 16:47:00 If it was, the oil mist would never leave the hose and fresh air would never be ingested by the engine. This is why I suggested a Y with reed valves. Long side exhales, short side inhales. |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Reelthing on 08/16/09 at 21:21:43 2F3036312C2B1A2A1A22303C77450 wrote:
about 650cc's I would expect |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/09 at 21:46:15 How much cooling do you guys think could be had by building a system that made it inhale fresh, ambient temp air instead of the hot blast it just exhaled? Just that answer is all Im after, I know about the oil loss, seriously, what effect on cooling? Just a SWAG would do me fine. I wonder how much Would it drive the efficiency down? Reelthing: Why heck yea, about 650. The exhaust spits it all out a pretty small hole when the piston goes up, so if that hose isnt more restricted than the exhaust, then it oughta be spitting about 650 ccs. That wadded up pot scrubber in the head cover is all that keeps it from being a straight shot, isnt it? |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by Reelthing on 08/16/09 at 22:01:48 that's all that s'pose to strip the oil out - i was pondering maybe the air going in at the filler plug and out at the head - couple check valves or even pcv ball valves would likely do the trick - but a better oil condenser strip'r is needed - how much cooling would such a thing give is a good question - likely make a pretty good air pump! |
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Title: Re: Oil consumption at full grin Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/17/09 at 08:00:54 A valved filler plug replacement would do it. Id expect to see a big increase in lost oil, tho, because if it doesnt "inhale" from the same hole it "exhales", all the oil in the pathway will fail to be sucked back down., But, it would make a fun experiment. |
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