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Message started by Oldfeller on 08/11/09 at 07:23:05

Title: Yet another oil war .....
Post by Oldfeller on 08/11/09 at 07:23:05

This thread was supposed to be a detailed follow up thread where folks would state their actual experiences using Rotella Synthetic oil -- one of the few relatively inexpensive synthetics that has the ZDDP additive package that the Savage needs to keep cams, follower tappets and cam chains happy.

Instead it turned into yet another oil war complete with vitrol and nastiness and unless you just like reading folks indulging in "conflict tactics" it is hardly worth reading.

Sorry for wasting your time.

Oldfeller

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 07:45:49

I would nothing but motorcycle oil in a motorcycle

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 08:17:21

We did not all finally agree that this oil has everything a Savage needs. Perusal of previous posts on the subject of oil will show this. Some members use and prefer Amsoil, some insist on the Mobil synthetic motorcycle oils, and others use various other brands.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by serenity3743 on 08/11/09 at 09:02:21

HE SAID NO ARGUING!!! >:( I think Oldfeller is just trying to confirm (or refute) the theory that Rotella is ONE oil that will work well for the Savage.

Now, GO TO YOUR ROOMS!!! >:(

(Wait, sorry, I thought I was talking to my 12 yr old twins.)

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 09:08:11

OF, you need to put a waiver for the BTB crowd.
Thems with closed minds need not enter in.

Has the blue jug been out a year already?
Certainly hasn't been a year since the RotSyn war.
Of which marked the beginning of my use (nearly, next oil change)
I make it to be 9 mo's anyway

And what are you expecting?
Full tear down aint happenin'
Oh wait it is happenin' the '96 is slated for new chain, cam piston and cyl
But I've used 3 oils (RotDino/M1suv/RotSyn) with this so the results will be tainted
And my oil use askew the chart right over on its ear. Yes I got the biggest 80 mph grin you'll ever see on a savage.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 09:09:40

667067707B7C616C26222126150 wrote:

(Wait, sorry, I thought I was talking to my 12 yr old twins.)

My twins are 13 ;D

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by AngloSaxon on 08/11/09 at 09:13:13

I bought some recently and will be trying it out on my next oil change. The last time I changed the oil, I used a Mobil synth and the difference was very noticeable. The engine ran much quieter and seemed to vibrate less.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Bear_Rider on 08/11/09 at 09:37:14

I have been using Rotella since the spring of 2007, through the heat of one Nevada summer, for a total of about 9,000 miles.

I changed oil (and filter) again this summer, and think that I will continue that routine.

Thus far I have noticed no problems. I have a slight oil leak around the head bolt located just above the exhaust (not the rubber plug), as has been reported by others on this site. I don't know if this is linked to the use of a synthetic or not.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 10:19:06

I have been using Klotz Synthetic since 1971,Thus far no problems.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 10:55:35

I've been using the Mobil Synthetic motorcycle oils since they were introduced, and never needed to look to see if there were any problems with the product. It was designed for motorcycles.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Boule’tard on 08/11/09 at 11:20:10

I don't think you'll get an objective comparison here, due to all the different riding styles, climates, length of trips, mods, plus a lot of people change oils so frequently they don't really know what's doing what.

And no one is going to tear down their engine and weigh the parts before & after brand X oil, then do the same with Rotella after the same number of miles under the same conditions.

--BUT--

You've got that super-magnet that catches pretty much all the metal that your engine loses, right? So run 1000 miles with the Rotella, carefully remove all the filings from your magnet and filter, then do another 1000 miles with another oil. Weigh the filings to 0.1g accuracy and that should give you a decent A/B comparison.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 11:22:26

Well said.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 11:42:48

4C415B424B5A4F5C4A2E0 wrote:

You've got that super-magnet that catches pretty much all the metal that your engine loses, right? So run 1000 miles with the Rotella, carefully remove all the filings from your magnet and filter, then do another 1000 miles with another oil. Weigh the filings to 0.1g accuracy and that should give you a decent A/B comparison.

Good suggestion, however, aluminum is non-magnetic.

I suggest that we take stock filters only, add the OF super mag mod, soak the filter in oil for 24 hrs. then drain on its side for 24 hrs. Then weight. Put in bike, run for 1000 miles, remove, drain like before and weight.

Not totally 100% as captured dirt will weigh in. But better than trying to pick aluminum dust out of the filter.

BTW, I didn't know Rotella made klotz and mobil1 :o

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by youzguyz on 08/11/09 at 11:56:05

When I was in the Navy (many moons ago) there was this oil spectrometer thinga-ma-jig machines that they would use to test helicopter engine and transmission oils.
Go get yerself one of them and have all the fun you could possibly want.
It sure was a piece of crud.. guy spent most of his time trying to get the "benchmark" samples to read what they should.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 12:19:33

I don't think the metal on the magnet would mean anything a newer motor would have more,I think a dyno test to see which put out the most horsepower would show which had the less friction.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by PTRider on 08/11/09 at 12:37:34

Less friction and less wear are not exactly the same thing. Some of the tribofilms the oil's components put on wear parts slow wear but have relatively high friction (zinc phosphate compounds). Others have both low wear and low friction (zinc phosphate compounds combined with moly compounds).

Even after the initial break in, the magnet will pick up a black "mud" of iron and steel wear particles from the cams & followers, piston rings, cylinder liner, transmission gears, cam chain pins & sprockets, and any other ferrous parts. It will provide a pretty good measure of the rate of wear.

Oldfella, it's hard to give an objective answer to your question. We know that Rotella certainly won't cause an engine disaster, and that many riders with many thousands of miles use that oil with good results. Could their results be better with a different oil? That's what is hard to measure outside a testing lab or with carefully designed trials.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 12:38:42

Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Duane on 08/11/09 at 12:40:11

I stick to what it says on the cap where you put the oil in myself. :-?

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 12:46:00

53544B180 wrote:

Take some smooth sand paper and rough sandpaper which has the most friction which will wear down the wood are metal faster.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Boule’tard on 08/11/09 at 12:47:58

414A4F4F1514230 wrote:

I don't think the metal on the magnet would mean anything a newer motor would have more,I think a dyno test to see which put out the most horsepower would show which had the less friction.

Of course the test would be done well after break-in, so the engine wouldn't be sloughing metal left and right. We are also talking about two consecutive 1000-mile intervals.. probably not much difference due to age.

2D3E2928373A3C3E356A5B0 wrote:

Yeah, the magnet doesn't catch the aluminum, so you would have to assume that the wear on the aluminum parts is in proportion to wear on the steel parts. By the filter-weighing method, the assumption is that contaminants like dirt and clutch plate material don't overwhelm the weight of metal due to engine wear.

OldFeller shall decide which assumption is best, haha :D

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 12:55:45

Klotz gives you more horsepower and better gas mileage and its made for ,guess what, motorcycles. 8-)

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by serenity3743 on 08/11/09 at 13:45:39

5D7A7E6D404D767B7A6D1F0 wrote:

I have a slight oil leak around the head bolt located just above the exhaust (not the rubber plug), as has been reported by others on this site. I don't know if this is linked to the use of a synthetic or not.

Are you sure that's not the rubber plug? My first problem with the rubber plug, about 40K ago, showed up in that spot. :-/

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Charon on 08/11/09 at 18:11:17

585356560C0D3A0 wrote:

Klotz gives you more horsepower and better gas mileage and its made for ,guess what, motorcycles. 8-)

Prove it. The part about being made for motorcycles may be easy, if you can prove they don't market the exact same product with different labelling for other uses. But proving "more horsepower and better gas mileage" will be very difficult. "More horsepower and better gas mileage" than what? Under what conditions? I personally think you have fallen for advertising hype.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 18:18:29

I said the only way to test oil is to put the motorcycle on a dyno to see what oil makes a motor put out the most power,I used Klotz long before I new It gave you more horsepower and gas mileage.BTW how is Sea Foam working for you.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 18:29:24

Klotz is a synthetic oil and compared to non-synthetic oils, will give better gas mileage and "more" horsepower, simply because synthetic oils reduce the friction between moving parts, thus requiring less horsepower to move those parts. If it takes less horsepower, then you don't use as much gas. This matter is widely known and there are many old, respected tests showing this.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 18:35:48

003335293433410 wrote:

Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines.

So why in the world would post non requested data?

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 18:42:00

33253F302D3F33304A0 wrote:

Couldn't find any thingamajigs on sale

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 18:46:13

Honda recommends Rotella now for racing,I didn't know that.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Gort on 08/11/09 at 19:40:13

7F6C7B7A65686E6C6738090 wrote:

[quote author=003335293433410 link=1250000586/15#16 date=1250019522]Correct, Shell Rotella doesn't make oil for Mobil or Klotz. Shell makes Rotella for diesel engines.

So why in the world would post non requested data?[/quote]

Because in this world two other members posted their oil preferences earlier in the thread, and because O.F. falsely stated that we all agree that his favorite diesel oil is best for the Savage, when he clearly knows we do not all agree with him. Uniformed members look to this site for advice, and it is irresponsible to mislead them, especially on something as important as oil for their bikes.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by bill67 on 08/11/09 at 19:44:52

For all of the differenced motorcycle oils in the world why would someone use a diesel oil,Unless you have a diesel motorcycle

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by srinath on 08/11/09 at 19:50:39

I dunno about rotella, I am not opposed but I run accel 10W40 from walmart - $2 or so a qt these days, but used to be 72c ... and I run it cos its SF rated.

Motorcycle oil is just bogus marketing crap.

Oil has a SF, SJ, SM what not ... the larger that second character the less of the good stuff its got.

SF is better than SJ, better than SM.
:-

Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: Use Reports, Rotella T Synthetic 5w40 (blue ju
Post by Tonydtiger1971 on 08/11/09 at 20:36:06

747F7A7A2021160 wrote:

For all of the differenced motorcycle oils in the world why would someone use a diesel oil,Unless you have a diesel motorcycle

http://www.americanprofile.com/heroes/article/1510.html

This looks promising. I would love one of these for the mpg and it's good for the environment.

Title: Re: Yet another oil war .....
Post by mikestrikes on 08/16/09 at 18:56:39

17343C3E3D34343D2A580 wrote:

OK I got one for ya... this is from a guy I know that owns a Kawasaki ZRX.... this letter from him says it all.

A while back I thought that, just for my own amusement, I'd send in an oil sample to Blackstone Labs.. Not going to post all the numbers stuff, but here's a cut and paste of the comments...

"For the record it's had 5w40 Rotella synth in it the last 30,000 miles or so. Changed about every 2000 miles."

Everything looked kosher in the first sample analysis of oil from the 1052 cc engine in your ZRX.
Universal averages show typical wear levels for this type of engine after about 2,500 miles on the oil. This oil was in use for fewer miles than that, and wear accumulation compared well with data displayed in
averages. Also, the oil additive levels in this sample appeared normal for this oil type and grade, showing no heat or moisture damage to the oil. The 7.1 TBN shows lots of oil additive still active (1.0 is low), and the trace fuel isn't a concern. Nice engine at 40,000 miles.

Title: Re: Yet another oil war .....
Post by Dj12midnit on 08/16/09 at 21:52:59

That appears to say he is changing his oil to often.

Title: Re: Yet another oil war .....
Post by Educatedredneck on 08/16/09 at 21:57:45

OF is just trying to stir the pot and we all fell for it.

I have used Shell Rotella Dino for the last 3 oil changes, I will say that it has cleaned up the engine. This I noticed when I had the motor apart to change the head gasket. I may stay with it, or switch to Amsoil. I haven't decided yet. The Savage is running fine with it. I'm more thinking along the lines of adding a Jag 6 row oil cooler if I can get managment to provide the funding. ;)