SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> batteries keep getting dead cells
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1249849814

Message started by aceshigh92 on 08/09/09 at 13:30:14

Title: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/09/09 at 13:30:14

i was wondering what could be causing my batteries to get dead cells,
my bike is clean in good condition,
but it keeps eating batteries,
what could be causing it?

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/09/09 at 15:14:57

i think it may be an electrical problem, maybe something is short circuiting, i have only rode about 5 times this season, its been in the shopjust sitting there. the battery was charged, i rode i to the gas station, then it wouldnt start. i got a jump, then its back at the shop, but i dont know what to tell the mechanic because i dont know whats wrong with it

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by thumperclone on 08/09/09 at 18:32:27

lil more info would help
age of bike,history...
batteries? type, how many have you ruined
non stock electrical accesories?

are you sure you are turning the key the right way to the left at shut down

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by PTRider on 08/09/09 at 19:52:40

A dead cell usually indicates a defect in an older battery.

If your battery is not remaining charged, it can be either an excessive load or inadequate charging. As said above, do you switch it off with the key in the vertical position or in the horizontal position? The horizontal position keeps the taillight on and will pull down the battery.

Here's a test if you have a voltmeter. With the engine warmed and running at a very fast idle (the book says 5000 rpm, which is roaring), the battery should be getting 14.0 to 15.5 volts. If it isn't, your alternator or another part of the charging system (regulator/rectifier) isn't working. (A fully charged "12 volt" battery is 12.6 volts. It takes more than 14 volts to force a full charge into a 12V battery.)

Have you checked the simple things like looking for clean and tight battery cables and terminals? Give each one a good look, wiggle, and tug. If you have a corroded or loose cable, fix that. Is the battery electrolyte up to the marks? Unfortunately in our bikes the battery has to be removed to do this right. If your battery has the six caps on the top, add distilled water up to the upper mark for the electrolyte level. If the tops of the plates inside the battery are dry, and have been dry for a while, you've shortened the life of the battery.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by verslagen1 on 08/09/09 at 20:16:03

There was a discussion last year on the hows and whys of short term battery death.

Might have been something to do with the regulator.
And I recall not to long ago, someone had a bad connector to the regulator and it was killing the battery.

Seek and ye shall find.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by Charon on 08/09/09 at 20:30:26

How do you know you are getting dead cells? Are you using a meter, or are you checking specific gravity of each cell? Motorcycle batteries don't have external links between cells (neither do car batteries, any more) so you don't usually have access to check voltage on each cell. In any case, if you cannot get the battery to charge and hold a charge, you have to replace the whole thing.

Lead-acid batteries have some odd quirks, and with the odd quirks of automatic battery chargers it is possible for the battery to show fully charged and still be essentially dead. A dead battery has a very weak electrolyte (normal - don't panic). With a normal charging voltage (about 14.4) it will accept almost no current. The automatic charger sees the high voltage and low current as a fully charged battery, so it shows the battery as charged, and the battery never really gets charged. Depending on the charger, over a period of hours the battery may begin to accept charge. When it does, the electrolyte gets stronger (more conductive). The battery voltage will drop a little, and the charger can then begin the real charging. Make sure to use a charger rated no more than two amps to avoid heating problems and electrolyte loss. Ideally, the charge would be at C/10, which for a 14 amp-hour battery (yours) would be 1.4 amps.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/10/09 at 14:19:00

the bike is all stock
1997 ls650 bought it last year, it has 7200 miles,
my mechanic looked at the previous batteries( i have had three in a year)
and they both had dead cells in them, he newest one will charge, but the bike wont start, it only starts with a jump, oce its turned off it wont turn back on.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/10/09 at 14:19:42

and i turn the key the right way

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/09 at 14:40:04

030107110A0B050A5B50620 wrote:

and i turn the key the right way

[smiley=thumbsup.gif]

The savage has a voltage sensitive ignition system. A little low on the volts and no sparky. If you ever get caught out somewhere with a low battery you can push start it. JOG has a technique for firing the decomp solenoid w/o turning the starter. But I just go at it with the starter to get the engine turning then let out the clutch to start it.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/09 at 18:33:12

I switch a hot wire ( the single red,ehhh 16 or 18 gauge, skinny dude, under the seat) to a wire on the decomp timer. It fires the decomp solenoid & it runs the starter. It is such a low current job I use a micro- switch out of a dead DVD player control panel. It will spin the starter even with the switch off. Or, switch on & it starts it. That switch has been tie wrapped up under the frame, just under my right thigh, under the right front edge of the seat, for over 3 years. It is inside 2 fingers of a butyrate glove, still on a small piece of circuit board, because the switch is too small to mount, thats how low current the application is.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/09 at 18:50:48

Yeah, and the wire that just fires the decomp?

This would be good for push starting.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/09 at 19:05:15

Im firing the timer, it fires the decomp & then, the starter. I dunno how to just fire the decomp using the timer, but if a guy put a diode in the wire that fires it & jumped a hot wire in between the diode & the decomp solenoid & switched it, you could get it rolling on & switch it off after you drop the clutch on it.
Might not even need the diode, I dunno, but it might be a pretty good idea.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by PTRider on 08/10/09 at 20:10:26

5F5D5B4D56575956070C3E0 wrote:

my mechanic looked at the previous batteries( i have had three in a year) and they both had dead cells in them, he newest one will charge, but the bike wont start, it only starts with a jump, oce its turned off it wont turn back on.

Find a new mechanic, one who is a better electrician. I seriously doubt that the batteries had dead cells, unless they were from a production run of defective batteries (and, anything is possible).

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by Charon on 08/10/09 at 22:22:57

I suppose it is possible the new batteries were never properly charged before they were installed. New batteries, including sealed ones, need an initial charge. They will usually tell you to use a low-rate charger for ten hours or so. I have not used a Battery Tender, but they are fairly highly recommended. Since I have the equipment to do it, I would use a voltage and current limited charger, setting the voltage to 14.4 volts and the current limit to C/10 (1.4 amps). The battery will charge at 1.4 amps until its terminal voltage reaches 14.4, and then the current will taper off. If you have a way to monitor current, wait until the current drops to C/100 (140 ma), and you can consider the battery charged. A truly well designed charger will control the current until the battery reaches the desired voltage, then control the voltage and allow the current to drop, then when the current drops low enough the charger output will switch to a trickle charge, maintaining about 13.6 volts.

You also need to check the charging system with a digital voltmeter. As stated above by PTRider, once the engine speed increases to well above idle the battery voltage should approach 14 - 15 volts. Another easy method is to locate the bike somewhere you can see the headlight shining on a wall. As you increase the engine speed from low idle the headlight should brighten. If it doesn't, the charging system has problems.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by verslagen1 on 08/10/09 at 22:43:16

some reading material for you...

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1153536772/2#2

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1242759379/8#8

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1245984387

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/11/09 at 13:44:24

the "new batteries" i got 2 out of three were used, if that helps
and the mechanic didnt know here was an electrical problem because he didnt look for it he just knew something was wrong with the batteries. he is now doig a full system diagnosis on the electronics to fix the problem

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by serenity3743 on 08/11/09 at 13:51:49

5B595F4952535D5203083A0 wrote:

I think you've got bad batteries every time. I've got one right now that only lasted 14 months.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by Charon on 08/12/09 at 06:23:17

Batteries aren't that expensive in the first place. Why would you buy a used one? Why would you think the used one was any better than your own used one? Buy a NEW battery, make sure it is properly charged BEFORE you put it in the motorcycle, install it, then check the charging system with a digital multimerer.

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/09 at 07:27:06

I think we need a "Smiley" of a finger wagging

Title: Re: batteries keep getting dead cells
Post by aceshigh92 on 08/13/09 at 10:33:49

i already bought a new battery 5 months ago and charged it before putting it in and the battery got ruined before