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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this way? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1249722741 Message started by voldigicam on 08/08/09 at 02:12:21 |
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Title: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this way? Post by voldigicam on 08/08/09 at 02:12:21 Seems like there's lots of regular maintenance. Weird stuff, too. Torque head bolts. What car needs that these days? Short oil change intervals are OK. But having to disassemble the cam cover every year? And having to check the cam chain? What if that tensioner is bad? Lots of work. Are all motorcycles this way? I'm kind of surprised at how much is called for so often. If I find there's too much to track all the time, maybe a different bike would be in order. No idea what would be lower maintenance. How far do these 650s go before they really get "old"? I drive cars to 250,000 / 400,000 miles and generally find they're mostly falling apart by then. More trouble crops up than is worth fixing. When does a Savage reach that typically? How about other bikes? I sat on a Triumph Bonneville today. Pretty nice. $3000. 2001 version. But heavier I think, and not so much better fit as to make me wish to change out bikes. But some of those Honda Shadows. Or even the next size up Suzuki. They look pretty nice. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Toymaker on 08/08/09 at 05:30:24 Can I ask why you need to pull the cam cover every year? Torquing head bolts happens maybe every 10,000 miles. Not much really to do with bikes....anyone? :) |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/08/09 at 06:17:57 If you can seriously find an easier and cheaper bike to up keep, then you should get it. These are like polar opposites of Harley's when it comes to being maintained. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by JohnBoy on 08/08/09 at 06:51:48 This is a "thumper", so as a rule things start to ratttle and fall off more often than a balanced multi, like say a Goldwing. Thread lock will solve most of those problems. It is air cooled. Heat kills engines. When did you last see an air cooled VW bug with 100,000miles that hadn't been rebuilt? I have had my Savage for less than a year. So far I find it to be more work than my '76 Wing, a lot more than my Kawa Voyagers, and a whole lot less work than my Harley or Matchless. The best part of this bike for me, aside from the sheer FUN!, is that you can maintain it yourself. Like the old 45cal Auto, I believe you could field strip this bike with a pocket knife or a nail file. And lets face it, if you are posting here, you are interested in making your bike "Your Bike". Show me another motorcycle that you can mod like this without a real fat wad of cash. The last one that comes to mind was made 40 years ago. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/09 at 07:39:53 That head retorque thing,, I have 20,000 on mine, those head bolts have never been touched. As for the valves, Now that I set them down as tight as the specs allow & all the contact points have had plenty of time banging into each other, they dont need set near as often. The contact points seem to have "work hardened" or Im just doing something better. The cam chain needs looked at around 15,000 miles. Once you get it all sorted out, its just change oil & tires & ride & have a look at things so nothing gets out of hand. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by clueless on 08/08/09 at 08:44:54 Nothing on this bike is difficult to do. I work on mine in the grass outside as I have no garage. Get the Clymers, the CD if still available, and browse this site. You can make it what you want it to be. One thing mine has been is RELIABLE! There are some very sharp folks on here that have some fantastic mods if you wish to do them. BTW, I have over 20K on mine and just checked the cam chain tensioner. It was OK but I modded it at the same time. Never been to the dealer. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by verslagen1 on 08/08/09 at 09:09:54 I've had the '96 from 16k till 44k miles, over 2 years. I've had to do the verslavy mod, but I also pulled the cover to measure the cam chain stretch. And replace the head plug. I've had the petcock issue. Other than wear items and cosmetics, nothing else. Well I did replace the fork seals, but they weren't leaking, but wanted to replace the oil and didn't want to replace the seals later. I bought an '88 recently with a burnt piston. 20k on the ticker. Found a wrecked '02 with 10k and swapped engines and most of the hardware. My mechanical knowledge is limited to pre smog, carborated engines. I really enjoy working on this bike when I have to. Once you have the tools (wrenches and such) you don't need much else. And everyone is equiped with the engine extraction tools, Mr left and Mr right. True, some will need a second set of those but it can be done. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Charon on 08/08/09 at 09:20:22 Perhaps we need to differentiate between what is called for by the manual, and what seems to be really needed. The manual calls for retorquing the head bolts every 4000 miles, which requires removing the head cover. The manual calls for checking and adjusting the valves every 4000 miles, which will be needed after removing the head cover because part of the valve mechanism is on the head cover. Most motorcycles are considerably more maintenance intensive than cars, if you follow the book. If you don't want to adjust valves (who does?) you will have to look for a bike with hydraulic valves - which will be a lower revving model such as a V-Twin. If you don't want to retorque head bolts you will probably have to go to liquid cooling - which adds complications of its own. I have no experience with cam chains, except that they typically last the life of the engine in cars. If they don't on bikes, blame poor design. I do not understand the rationale for short oil change intervals on bikes, unless it the the "fault" of the transmission gear train running in the same oil and reducing the oil viscosity by shearing. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Serowbot on 08/08/09 at 09:24:34 For low maintenance and long life, get a Honda with hydraulic lifters and shaft drive... But,... like a modern car,.. you won't be able to service it yourself and it'll cost an arm and a leg to get anything done at the dealer.... Our Savages are basically Model-T technology with the exception of electronic ignition... Other bikes have fuel injection, computers, radiators, fuel pumps, etc... Can make the bike run better for longer, but these things also can break and will cost more to fix... |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by voldigicam on 08/08/09 at 10:21:22 Well. I am sure I could take a Honda Goldwing completely apart and reassemble. I have no interest in doing so. The only thing I haven't rebuilt/fixed on a car at one point or another is an automatic transmission. So it seems that the frequent checks and so on may not really be needed. If nothing appears amiss. I imagine the valves will stay adjusted for a while now that I have them right. There's nothing to go wrong with the belt really, so long as I check the pulleys every once and a while. I'm probably just getting overexposed to problems on this forum!!! On the oil issue, use in a wet plate clutch is bound to tear up oil much more rapidly than in simple lubrication use. As far as temperature - I'm very surprised how cool the engine runs Really seems to radiate heat nicely. On general maintenance, I looked at the newer Harleys just a few miniutes ago. Looks like they've aimed to get maintenance requirements to a minimum. But they're still pretty heavy. I liked the 883 low best in looks and feel, except wanted a higher seat - the nice man attempted to get me to ride one! Just felt heavy, but probably much different rolling. Still, given my low-speed, tight turn roads I suspect something more flickable is much better! The failings I'm noting after riding up in the mountains this morning are a bit of a squirrelly feeling front end that also gives a rough ride, and the buzz after 30 minutes at 60. I expect grips would help that a bit. My makeshift backrest did very very well. Comfortable. Oh, and the short footpegs!!! |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Serowbot on 08/08/09 at 10:40:08 "probably just getting overexposed to problems on this forum!!! " That's a definite... Try any bike or car specific site and it's full of problems... That's when most members post,... when they have a problem, and need advice... It's basically a pretty sturdy bike, and it's fairly forgiving about it's maintenance schedules... The weakest link,... seems to be the cam chain, some have gone as early as 8K miles, others have past 30K without problem... I wonder if it's too low of an idle speed effecting chain longevity... |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by PTRider on 08/08/09 at 15:43:41 At least the S40/Savage only has one of everything (x4 valves) to work on. As already said, much in the book seems to be more for the stealership's revenue than for the engine's needs, plus a forum like this has lots and lots of discussion about maintenance. My mechanic says that he's never found head bolts that were loose, and he no longer checks their tightness during routine maintenance checks. I suspect that the cam chain wear has a relationship to the oil used. The chain will probably wear fastest when automotive 10W-40 oil is used, and wear slowest when an oil with a very high content of antiwear compounds were blended in by the oil maker. Also, modern oils have to meet tougher wear testing with each new generation of diesel (http://www.infineum.com/information/api_tables/Heavy%20Duty%20Diesel%20Engine%20Test%20Category%20For%20API%20CJ-4%20-%202008.pdf) (Cummins ISB & ASTM D5966) or gasoline (http://www.infineum.com/information/api_tables/Passenger%20Car%20Engine%20Test%20Category%20For%20API%20SJ%20And%20SL%20-%202008.pdf)* (Sequence IV-A & Sequence VIII) engine oils. I'd look at a Buell** instead of a Harley. Harleys just seem to be prehistoric. *I omitted the SM (http://www.infineum.com/information/api_tables/Passenger%20Car%20Engine%20Test%20Category%20For%20API%20SM%20-%202008.pdf) gasoline engine oils, because no one here is suggesting that anyone use one that also isn't at least rated for diesels as well. **Or a MotoGuzzi (except the bad years) or a modern Triumph, or one of the Japanese bikes, or a really clean older BMW. Ducatis are too trick to work on and modern BMWs are really gimmicky. When I find a 650 V-Strom at a really good price I'll have a dilema. The Savage is a low cost entry level cruiser where Suzuki got a LOT of things right, and it's just lots of fun. I could use a bigger frame bike and might want to use a bike on gravel forest roads, but I'm sure having fun on my Savage. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by photojoe on 08/08/09 at 17:06:10 I must have been rewarded with a bike that was either treated well by the PO, or worked on internally by a good mechanic (signs of sealant on both cylinder seams), or both. Outside of the head cap leak, I've had no major issues with it at all. I change the oil/filter on a regular basis, tighten nuts and bolts, changed the air filter and installed a battery in the almost year and a half that I've owned it. Rolled over 20K a couple of weeks ago and have never had the tank off. It runs sweet. My 2 Sportster's, a '72 and an early '84, both required carrying a full set of tools at all times. I've pushed the '72 2 miles home, had them both in the back of pickup trucks more times than I care to remember, and always had grease under my fingernails. And, the oil leaks were much worse than the Savage. The '72 faired better than the '84 that blew a rod. Both had carb problems, the '72 had a Mikuni and the 84 had an SS, but neither I, or any of my mechanic friends could ever get them right. Talk about high maintenance! So, with my limited experience with 2 iron head HD's, the Savage is a dream bike in comparison. Sure there are design flaws, like why the heck they decided to put the spark plug in a place that requires removing the tank, but there's even a mod for that. Right now I need a rear tire/tube/strip, brake pads all around and need to check my cam chain and tensioner. The rear tire is getting done by a shop and I'll probably have them throw pads in while they have the wheel off. Some things are worth paying for. Found a independent shop with good rates close by me. Just have to bring him the tire and pads. The cam work I'll do myself. All of that after almost 1 1/2 years and over 7000 miles spent riding, not wrenching. Not bad at all. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by alcoa on 08/08/09 at 17:36:13 I have put almost 6000 miles on my bike and not one problem, but I have not taken it apart :) to make it run better either, most of the problems with s40 is the loose nut that connects the handel bar to the seat ;) |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/09/09 at 21:02:01 The bike needs a fork brace. Doesnt matter if you dont thru a corner over 30 mph, it will feel more sure footed & your grip will relax & some of that Buzz will go away. See how softly you can hold the bars & wear padded gloves. The Buzz in the boots feels good to me. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by voldigicam on 08/10/09 at 04:56:31 I'll pick up a fork brace. The lack of surefootedness (good term!) is the primary trouble. That's what worries me. Front end just doesn't feel glued down. I seem to have the mixture dialed in well enough now. Think the pilot is pretty good. Might still be a little light on main. I'll do a chop sometime and see. When I really have time to waste! Certainly I'm getting to the point where I change the seat, though. And add a backrest. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Boule’tard on 08/10/09 at 06:06:14 +1 on the fork brace. The Tkat is good. I love air-cooled thumpers and will probably stick with them for life. I hate the idea of syncing carbs, adjusting multi-valve multi-heads, 2 to 4 times the opportunity for trouble, etc. Vibration doesn't seem bad at all. If anything, it's more pleasant than the high-frequency buzz you get with bikes w/more cylinders. With thumpers you just have to make sure everything's buttoned down tight. The day Honda puts their XR650 engine into a bike less than 10 feet off the ground, and I have 3x the money I paid for my S40, I may want to upgrade. But by that time I should be able to take the S40 apart blindfolded, so it's doubtful I'd save much maintenance time in the long run. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by srinath on 08/10/09 at 06:57:32 Plenty of lower maintenance bikes. Plenty of easier to work on and lower maintanance as well. One thing though, they are not cruisers. Standards or sporty standards. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Duane on 08/10/09 at 08:44:38 My LS650 has 8K and I have had to put on front break pads, and done a few oil changes. Seems to be a pretty low mainenace bike. My last bike was a1974 Honda CB550F. I spent more time working on it than on it. I have recently broke a part in my transmission though and that's making me a bit mad. With only 8K I would not think anything like that sould happen. I have been assured it's a cheap part and not that hard to fix but I'm still not looking forward to it. I did have a 250 Kawasaki Ninja for a couple of years. Only thing I ever had to do to it was adjuct the valves. Other than taking off all the plastic crap it was a pretty easy job and the motor was well designed for the job. I'll have to keep everyone up to date on my transmission problem. I'm pretty sure I have to take the pipe off to get the trans cover off. I'm really not looking forward to taking the pipe off. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by voldigicam on 08/10/09 at 08:58:03 64657E7976637F170 wrote:
Wish I knew more about them. The S40 doesn't feel nearly as cruiserish as most that I sit on. What would be a few nice handling, low maintenance, easy to deal with bikes 500 to 750 cc? Or thereabouts. I keep finding my brainwashing with 1960s and 1970s bikes getting in the way of really seeing what's appropriate and effective. I describe where I go and where I'm likely to go and what I like to do - and three different people immediately came up with the KLR650. Hmm. I kind of like the low easy position. But maybe there's something to an adventure touring machine. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Rocco on 08/10/09 at 09:40:37 my 95 has just over 8000 miles on it and i'm pretty sure besides oil change the previous owner hasn't done anything. i do have the cap plug leak but it's not bad enough for me to fix lol i've replaced the flasher relay and a fuel hose other then that i just put gas & a little oil in her! lol BUT i have completely customized my bike, all in my backyard mind u! i've taken apart lawn mowers before, i'm guessing it's similar!! i've noticed that the more crap put onto something, the more crap that goes wrong! i also enjoy being a little different from the hondas & the harleys, but that's just me talking ;D |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Duane on 08/10/09 at 12:10:50 I've heard good things about the Honda Nighthawk, as far as being reliable and low maintenace. It reminds me too much of my CB550F I had though. Those are some bad memories. Trying to get 4 carbs to synch and work properly is a pain in the @ss. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by srinath on 08/10/09 at 20:59:31 667F7C7479777973717D100 wrote:
Wish I knew more about them. The S40 doesn't feel nearly as cruiserish as most that I sit on. What would be a few nice handling, low maintenance, easy to deal with bikes 500 to 750 cc? Or thereabouts. I keep finding my brainwashing with 1960s and 1970s bikes getting in the way of really seeing what's appropriate and effective. I describe where I go and where I'm likely to go and what I like to do - and three different people immediately came up with the KLR650. Hmm. I kind of like the low easy position. But maybe there's something to an adventure touring machine.[/quote] In no particular order - GS500 - oddly there is plenty of complaints ... tires not wide enough (show off), the shocks is squishy (katana shock swap), the carbs are cold blooded (for which I sell a kit that fixes it) some more general BS, but, that bike usually does not break, rarely needs valve adjustment and overall runs about the same as the savage. Virago 750/1100 and oddly 535 too - lower maintenence and in a way easier too, but you need to get the carbs out on the big virago's ... bring your lunch ... however my record for out is 9 mins and back in is 15 ... but that number on a saavge is likely to be in seconds ... They got starter issues but not the way savage does ... I also seriously love the 80's maxim's and radians. 84 and later I4 maxims. 86-91 radian. KZ 440 and air cooled belt driven kawi's of the 80's that were cousins of the KZ series. CSR, and spectre, etc. Yes nighthawk's but I like 650 and 700 which were shafties. 450 rebels and 600 eliminators but buy post 96 on the 600 eli's. better valve material making it wear slower. Long list ... but savage is great, its neither low maintenance nor is it easy ... its easier than many, but not the easiest. Cool. Srinath. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by High-Def on 08/11/09 at 11:56:32 It does look like we do alot of stuff to our bikes. But it's due to want, not need. Anyone that is into their bike enough to find and register on a site like this is a tinkerer in one way or another. We get crazy ideas and like to bounce them off of other mad men (and women). The up keep is the easy part. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Oldnewguy on 08/11/09 at 13:42:23 I have a 96 with 12000+ miles on it. How do you know when to do the cam chain thing? Runs Bad or not at all? |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/09 at 14:33:14 Oldnewguy, you know you'll need a chain. If Lancer has one left, you should snag it. Soak it in oil, even if it feels oily as hekk. The only way to know for certain its okay "In there" is to pop the side cover off. Once you know its okay & have measured how far the tensioner is poking out, you can guess at how much longer the chain will last. Recommend the tensioner be swapped for the Verslavy modded one. It will allow you to get all the miles from a cam chain that are possible. If you are trying to wring the performance out of it, Lancer has a cam available. I did it & Id do it again. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Oldnewguy on 08/11/09 at 15:00:15 I'll probably have 14000 by the end of riding season. Should I just plan on that as a winter project? What happens when it goes bad or out of adjustment or whatever it does? |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by verslagen1 on 08/11/09 at 17:30:08 Check the tech section the cam chain adjuster check and various other cam chain issues in the index. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Oldnewguy on 08/12/09 at 03:49:15 I will do that. I checked the pics on the CD last night and kind of understand the whole thing, sort of. I will probably also get a Clymers manual to go with the tech section. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/12/09 at 07:50:56 Yep, need a book. It will come in handy several times. I was gonna retorque the head while I was in there, but forgot.So, its never been done. You gonna get a modified tensioner? |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Oldnewguy on 08/12/09 at 10:59:22 I am not sure what that is, but you can bet that by December I'll have the best of what I need. I have a lot of homework to do! I suspect that all of that is covered in the tech section? I see that Lancer is the "go to' guy for parts. That modified tensioner must be the Verslavy mentioned before. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:24:58 6A565B6A5147535F555B4C3E0 wrote:
The book says to torque the head bolts every 3500 miles. With my luck, if I waited 5000 miles to do this, I'd blow a head gasket. :( |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:26:20 56494F4855526353635B49450E3C0 wrote:
The book says to torque the head bolts every 3500 miles. With my luck, if I waited 5000 miles to do this, I'd blow a head gasket. :( |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:32:41 4E57545C515F515B5955380 wrote:
Compared to most other Japanese bikes, the Savage needs more frequent maintenance. It is, thankfully, easier to work on than most other bikes are. I think comparing motorcycles to cars when it comes to maintenance intervals is like comparing apples to oranges. Motorcycles must be designed with much lighter weight and smaller components than those that go into cars. Therefore, the design margins are tighter on bikes. So, bikes will generally require tighter maintenance intervals than cars do. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:38:24 765D54475A5B350 wrote:
Charon, I think you shacked it right there! |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:46:05 0233272823460 wrote:
If you have an OEM pipe, don't worry about it since removing it is the easiest thing ever. 4 bolts and she's off! |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/22/09 at 19:48:20 637A79717C727C767478150 wrote:
I consider the KLR to be more rugged than the Savage, but the KLRs have their own set of problems to deal with. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Duane on 08/22/09 at 20:49:23 537E70707265170 wrote:
If you have an OEM pipe, don't worry about it since removing it is the easiest thing ever. 4 bolts and she's off![/quote] You were on the money, easy on easy off. I hope I got a good seal putting it back on though. I reused my old gasket. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Charon on 08/22/09 at 21:13:15 Hey Digger, were you ever in SAC? That's the first time I've seen "shacked it" since I left 1CEVG and RBS. |
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Title: Re: Seems a lot of maintenance - all motos this wa Post by Digger on 08/23/09 at 21:48:43 466D64776A6B050 wrote:
Nope. Spent my operational years flying A-10s and F-16s in TAC, USAFE, and PACAF. Someone had to do it! ;) My son, however, served for over two years in the missile fields around Malmstrom AFB. A modern day version of SAC, I guess. |
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