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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
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Message started by BrusselsSavage on 08/04/09 at 04:00:38

Title: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/04/09 at 04:00:38

Hi all,

I've had the nagging problem of the oil leak hear and there, I read some of the posts about the plug, but I have a question of another sort.
A friend of mine, who's a mechanic, told me it might be a good idea to switch from 10w40 to 15w50 to decrease the leaks. At my last oil change, I also put in a can of Wynn's Supercharge.
I must say it helped for about a tank or two, then, the problems were back. Since it's fairly hot out here for the moment and i drive the bike around town mostly, would it be a very bad idea to change the 10w40 with a thicker 15w50. Will it cure some of the leaking?
I usually start the bike and let it warm up for a minute or 2 every morning before I start riding, so the engine has a little time to warm up and I don't rev it madly when it's cold.
What's your opinion?
Pierre
Brussels
1990 4-speed

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by Demin on 08/04/09 at 05:26:09

I run 20w50 in mine.Seems ok.I lived in Dallas,20w50 looked like water after a ride.Even in Ohio it's what I run.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by PTRider on 08/04/09 at 07:33:28

No problem with the 15W-50. That's what I use all the time.

The only way to fix an oil leak is to FIX it--find the problem and repair it. You didn't put the whole can of Wynn's Super "Charge" in the bike engine, did you? That stuff only thickens oil, it doesn't lubricate as well as oil lubricates. I wouldn't use any, and I certainly wouldn't use more than the amount recommended per liter of oil.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/04/09 at 08:03:43

Hi PTRider,
Thanks for your input.
I do appreciate that I should fix the leak, but this is my daily workhorse, bought for a song and probably on its last leg. I don't have the means or even the tools to do a whole rebuild, so I'm patching things up as I go. I have a big cruiser for longer rides with the missus.
From what I was told, I should replace the piston rings, which let the oil back up, but the mechanic friend I know didn't know anything about the plug cap. I'm trying to find out more about that. This guy says I would need to basically strip the engine and while it's open, I should take advantage of that to do this this and that. That would cost me twice what the bike cost me, so I'm a bit reluctant.
However, if the plug cap replacement is as straightforward as I hear it is, then I would gladly do that. In the meantime, I'm trying to keep the leaking to a minimum, so I'll start by switching to 15W50 this weekend.
Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/04/09 at 08:35:18

I ran Mobile1 15W50 in a GS Suzuki years ago for few years. That's what I have in Savage now, I believe. Car oil, needless to say. Can't see any problems. It will not fix the leak.
On the other hand, knowing your situation, I had an old diesel VW I drove for 4 years with adding a liter of cheap oil every 1000Km or so. A cheap workhorse, it's what it was. Unless you are a dedicated environmentalist, go for it. Or sell the savage and buy a better workhorse.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by bill67 on 08/04/09 at 08:42:22

Why not go to 20/50 I use that ,I live in wisconsin,If 15/50 helps 20/50 will help it more.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/07/09 at 04:02:32

If I put 20w50, do I need to worry about putting an additive for the clutch, as it doesn't say that this oil is for motorbikes. I'm told car oil does not have the additive that is present in motorbike oil. Is that a load of BS or should I worry about that? If I do need to put in an additive, what would you folks recommend?
Cheers
Pierre

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by serenity3743 on 08/07/09 at 05:15:27

Yes, you should worry about that. Car oil is not for motorcycles which have a a wet clutch like the Savage does. But motorcycle shops should have 20W-50 oil. All the ones I shop do.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/07/09 at 05:45:19

Is there an additive I can... well, add to the oil? The price for 20w50 bike oil in a nearby motorshop is 4 times more expensive than the "car" oil.
Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/07/09 at 06:11:20

I tried long time ago, and it worked. Car oil, I mean. Mobil1 20W50 full synth, NASCAR rated... I am still on it. I also used 10W40 Castrol GTX (white bottle, cheap) - and it worked! I heard from a friend that Castrol Magnatec caused his CBR's clutch to slip. His CBR has around 120HP Rear wheel.
Man, give it a try. If nothing - at least you know. If we continue we will open the bottle. There's a war between "car" and "bike" oil users online.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/07/09 at 06:27:09

Actually, I checked in my garage and what I've been using for the past year or so, is 10w40 car oil (there's no fancy drawing of a bike on it at least) but now that I hear a mention of clutch slippage, I've noticed in the past month or so, that there's slippage when I take off from the lights (in a hurry most of the time). Could it be that the car oil with no clutch additive is already making my clutch slip? I have nowhere near 120 bhp at the rear wheel, as you know, but the slippage can indeed be felt.
Also, is it a good idea to go with full synthetic oil in my semi-worn and already leaking Savage engine? :-/

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/07/09 at 06:50:13

It could be the oil, yes. It could also be that your clutch plates burned ;) No, full synth would probably not be a good idea in yours, price wise. It works like a charm in mine.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/07/09 at 07:01:50

Actually, I changed the clutch plate last year, and before I changed it, I had ridden the bike for about 6-7.000 km without noticing anything. And now, 2-3000 km later, I can feel some slippage. So either the bike is REALLY on its last leg overall, or the car oil REALLY was bad for this clutch plate (I bought basic (read cheapish but not the cheapest) 10w40 in 5 liter cans). but since there is a fairly important oil seepage, I keep topping up, a little bit every weekend.
I've got synthetic oil in a more recent big twin and that works like a charm, no leak, nothing but I'm a but apprehensive to put synthetic oil albeit 20w50 in this ol' thumper.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/07/09 at 08:11:22

...well, than it's the oil causin' it. Or clutch springs gave in. Can't see what else, if you feel it slip. Drain that oil, try a different cheap brand, or feed it with that 20W50, you live only once, for heaven's sake ;)

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/07/09 at 08:15:06

But, but... wait a moment - you never said you top off based on the oil level in the window. Does the level actually drop in one week, or you add oil because you think it lost certain quantity???

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/07/09 at 08:31:50

Well actually, I do top up based on what I see on Friday morning through the little window, and also, I can see it's lost some oil because I can see it all over the fins and I see tiny puddles in the morning on the cardboard I keep under the bike, so I know it's losing oil. I check the little window just to assess how much oil I should add weekly, and I can tell you we're faaaaaaaaaaar from the usual X cl of oil consumed per 1000 km.
So I'll change the oil this weekend with 20W50, ask in a bike shop for an additive and in the meantime, it'll keep sounding like a TMax when I take off at the lights. :-)

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/09 at 09:34:12

Mine loses a little & I use Rotella-T 15-40. It leaked more with the 10-40.
Rotella is cheap & has none of the stuff that messes with a wet clutch.
Sounds like the infamous head plug leak. You can fix that dude & cease the constant worry of running low. You can also slightly overfill it. The operative word being 'Slightly".

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by Skid Mark on 08/07/09 at 15:30:51

I remember a saying from an old time mechanic: " If oil is getting out, dirt is getting in."

Do the leak fix as soon as you can. You engine will appreciate it.

I just switched to the Rotella T 15-40 oil that Justin_o_guy2 is using. The bike runs just fine and the oil cost is about 1/2 of what it used to. ;)

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by PTRider on 08/07/09 at 16:36:48

I know of no additive to improve clutch action.

All engine oils contain a package of additives...detergents, dispersants, anti-wear agents, anti-oxidants, anti-foamant, viscosity index improver, pour point depressant, corrosion inhibitors, and others including friction modifiers. All engine oils are about 75~80% base oil (either conventional, synthetic, or a combination) and 20~25% additive package.

Automotive engine oils may contain friction modifiers that cause wet clutch slippage. Motorcycle oils do not, nor do diesel engine oils. To be sure, look for the JASO MA certification on the label or a statement somewhere on the label or web site data sheet saying that the oil is OK for motorcycles with wet clutches...conversely, avoid those oils that state that they are not suitable for wet clutches, such as Mobil 1 Racing oils (including their 15W-50).

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by dasch on 08/07/09 at 20:19:54

Oil for diesels, yeah - good idea.

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by Educatedredneck on 08/07/09 at 23:41:51

I use Shell Rotella T - very cheap and my Savage likes it!!! Tastes good too. BURP!!!!

Buy it at Wallyworld in a 5 quart jug and you are good to go!!!

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by BrusselsSavage on 08/08/09 at 03:50:18

OK Quick update.
I did a quick oil change this morning, 20w50 + a new oil filter. The spark plug seemed fine. I drove it for 10-15 miles, and so far, so good. Can't see a drip, yet, but I cleaned up the engine nicely before I went riding.

I did buy the head plug everyone's been talking about, and I had a closer look this morning at where it goes.
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I need to take off the head, and in order to do this, I have to take the engine off the frame? I'm a newby at taking engines apart and I'm afraid I'll find too many nasty suprises when I do take it apart, albeit partly. I also see that the guy who had it before me (or before that) used screws that don't look kosher to me. Does suzuki sell a pouch with all the new screws, bolts and nic-nacs neede when you take an engine apart? If I do, I might as well change all the screws and everything.
Any thoughts?

Title: Re: Oil. 15w50 instead of 10w40?
Post by grandpa on 08/08/09 at 06:18:35

I am sure there is a thread on changing the plug in the tech section (everything else is there). I bought an '06 acouple of years ago with 76 miles on it. I did the 500 mile check up including retorqueing the headbolts. You have to take the 'head cover' off. The manufacturing tolerances of your frame determines whether you have to pull the motor or not. Mine came out easy enough but was a bear to wiggle back into place. The 'plug' is a rubber plug to access one headbolt. Just coat it good with your favorite sealant and it should not leak.

Castrol 20-50 is great oil if you are losing a little. Any oil that says energy conserving rated should not be used. I am not familiar with the Wynn's product but I wouldn't use any additive's in oil at all.