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Message started by 4carbcorvair on 07/26/09 at 17:39:23

Title: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/26/09 at 17:39:23

Drilled out the brass plug on my 07. I cannot get the screw to turn, in not getting it to turn, I have totally screwed the mixture screw head up. What do I do now? Take the carb apart? Drill it out?

I installed my Harley muffler today and it's popping when I shift, would like to take care of it. :)

Thanks.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by tomtaz1975 on 07/26/09 at 18:07:20

I sprayed some penetrating oil in before I tried turning the screw.

Is there any head left to the screw, or is it totally stripped out?
Normally if you did, you can take a small chisel and by tapping it you can then use a flathead screwdriver to remove the screw. Or the same with a sharpened flathead screwdriver. Just don't hit it too hard or you could crack it.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/26/09 at 18:18:01

Head is trashed. I'll try the chisel/screwdriver trick and see what that does. Hard to believe a bike with 1,600 miles would have issues like this. :shrug:

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by tomtaz1975 on 07/26/09 at 19:32:26

Just take it really slow...all you are trying to do is make a dent so the screwdriver can get in the groove.

I would also make sure you clean out all of the grit/scrap from drilling out the plug, and of course whatever is left from the head.

Good luck...that is one screw you don't want messed up...

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by verslagen1 on 07/26/09 at 19:42:05

If it were me, I'd take a 1/16" drill and carefully redo the slot.
Then take a dremil with a small rotary rasp and smooth out the slot.
But a couple of shallow holes could make it easier to tap in a screwdriver too.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by voldigicam on 07/27/09 at 04:07:48

If all that fails, then generally one would have to drill out a harder from a softer. Tough job. I've clamped such things in a fixture and used a stiff drill press. Have to know the geometry of the screw, so have the new one available. Don't screw up the seat. Can be done. A pain!

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by PTRider on 07/27/09 at 07:09:07

For general info:
--Throw away all your screwdrivers with rounded off tips...or dress them on a grinding wheel, don't get them so hot that you take out the temper, and return them to the original dimensions.
--Select screwdrivers where the tip exactly fits the screw slot.
--Hold the screwdriver exactly straight in the slot, press down firmly, and don't allow it to slip. If the screw doesn't want to turn, don't force it. Use a good penetrating oil (Kroil or B'laster PB, not WD-40) or alternating heat & cold.

Ditto for Phillips head screws...throw away the ones with worn out tips. The added complication is that our bikes don't have Phillips head screws, they're JIS. Look at the dot between two slots. Phillips screwdrivers almost fit right. JIS screwdrivers are available mail order and maybe special order from some shops. (JIS = Japanese Industrial Standard.)

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by LANCER on 07/27/09 at 07:26:37

Drilling down to redress the screwdriver slot or to use an "easy out" must be done carefully. If during the drilling process you damage the threads that must be there for the pilot adjusting screw to use, then you have destroyed the usefulness of the carb body.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by voldigicam on 07/27/09 at 09:20:46

I use gunmith's screwdrivers. And jeweler's screwdrivers. Good ones. store them padded.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/27/09 at 15:46:53

Thanks. Looks like I'm buying another screw. I have soaked it. No matter what I do it will not turn and it keeps breaking off. :( I'll try drilling it out and replacing it after I get the new one to see how deep it goes. If that fails, new carb.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by drharveys on 07/27/09 at 16:51:07

1C4B495A4A4B475A5E49415A280 wrote:

If that fails, new carb.

Or carb upgrade.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Tonydtiger1971 on 07/27/09 at 18:43:50

I've been thinking about doing this to my 03 Savage. How easy is it to get to the screw?
:-?

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/27/09 at 19:07:08

I had no problem getting to the screw, that was the easy part. Turning it has been the issue for me. :(

Yes, thought about a carb upgrade too. :D Speaking of which, whats a good carb to throw on it?

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/28/09 at 09:44:03

The "Tube" the screw is down in serves no function. You can hack it away & get to the head of the screw. No chisels on the screw, bad idea. Did you get the whole cap out? Or did you just drill out the top end & leave the walls? Is that holding the screw? Will it screw in?

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/28/09 at 11:18:04

Plug is completely out, can see the walls of the port ahead of the screw. The screw will not turn in or out. I called and ordered a new adjustment screw, should be here Friday or Monday. I'll wait until it gets here before I start drilling the old one out.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Digger on 07/28/09 at 21:24:57

If you are going to drill, try these first:

Left-Hand Drill Bits (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=95146)

You may just get lucky.

Here is a source for JIS screwdrivers:

Ames Supply Company (http://www.amessupply.com/products1.cfm?aid=1&cid=D&sid=DE&fid=1404070)

Good luck!

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by ero4444 on 07/29/09 at 08:50:46

The Harbor Freight left-hand bits I got online were not good enough for most jobs - I think you have linked to the same set. The shafts were either slightly curved or too weak to keep on center.

Maybe they fixed them since 2008 but I am still looking for a high-quality set.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Digger on 07/29/09 at 19:35:13

6D7A673C3C3C3C080 wrote:

ero,

Good input. I have the Harbor Freight set but have not used any of them yet.

Here are some more choices for Left-Hand Drill Bits (http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw_1_16?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=left+hand+drill+bit+set&sprefix=left+hand+drill+)

IHTH someone!

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 07/31/09 at 11:56:03

Dealer called and said my mixture screw was in. I drive the 40 min or so over, wrong screw. The guy ordered the idle screw. After verifying with him over the phone that it was the BRASS MIXTURE screw on the right hand side of the carb UNDER the BRASS cap. On top of that, the correct screw, I looked on the computer with him, came to almost $10 more with a new spring..... I should have told him to forget it and ordered one on BikeBandit for $8 and been done.....New one should be here Wed.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Digger on 07/31/09 at 20:32:29

4,

In the future, it might pay you to research the part number you need on line, then just give the part number to the parts monkey when you place your order over the phone.

Works for me!

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by LANCER on 08/01/09 at 05:16:59

when drilling down into whats left of the screw head, use the smallest drill/easyout set you have or can get; there is not much room for error lest you destroy the threads needed for the new screw. as mentioned already use lots of lubrication and a small size impact driver is you have one; in not then get one..

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/01/09 at 13:53:26

Digger, I couldn't find a part number in my search. Only diagram I found was on BikeBandit.com. Come to find out, it was the same diagram as the dealer. If I had known that, I would have told them. Now I know!! :)

Lancer, thank you for the tip. I have one of your Jet kits and I can't find it. I put it someplace so I wouldn't loose it. ;D

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Digger on 08/01/09 at 20:19:38

[quote author=6136342737363A2723343C27550 link=1248655164/15#21 date=1249160006]Digger, I couldn't find a part number in my search. Only diagram I found was on BikeBandit.com. Come to find out, it was the same diagram as the dealer. If I had known that, I would have told them. Now I know..../quote]

4,

Here's a useful site for your '07:

http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/48/Year/2007/ModelID/7562/Model/LS650

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/02/09 at 05:35:37

Perfect!!! Thank you. :)

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/05/09 at 12:38:02

I need to use a different dealer for parts. This is the first time I have ever tried to get parts from the dealer I got my bike from. After the first order being wrong, I showed them exactly what I needed on the computer. They called today and said my parts are in. I show up and it is the correct mixture screw. :) However, the spring that he gave me was about 6 inches long, 3/4 inch round. Thats bigger than the carb, no way it's fitting the mixture hole. ;D So I got a refund on it. Anyway, I came home, crossed my fingers and started drilling. It wouldn't even budge while drilling. I started with a 1/16 drill bit and worked my way up so there was just a little bit of the screw left around the threads. Used a twist bolt remover, took some force, it finally came out. With NO damage. 8-) That bugger did not want to come out.

Anyway, I adjusted the screw. With the Harley muffler, it's now running about the same as it was pre muffler as far as backfire/popping. Looks like I really need to dig around and find my Jet kit......

Thanks for all the tips and suggestions.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by EJID on 08/05/09 at 13:09:57

Glad to hear you finally got that bugger out. Here's to the trial and error of matching the right jet size to make her purrrr!!! ;D

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by LANCER on 08/06/09 at 00:46:18

0D5A584B5B5A564B4F58504B390 wrote:

Dude, if I found all of the parts that I have put away where I would not loose them I could completely restock my parts shelf all over again. ;D

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/09 at 07:20:50

Used a twist bolt remover, took some force, it finally came out. With NO damage.

I have a few types of "Easy Outs". Whoever named them that should be jailed for fraud or something. They cant really be called screw extractors, because Ive yet to make them do that. I have found a use for one of the carbide ones. It was broken in 2 & I used one end to put the right side mirror back together. It broke off in the threads. I drilled a hole, top & bottom, then drilled a smaller hole, used piano wire in the smaller hole & the carbide ease out( yea Riight) in the biggun. Been holding for over 2 years.

But heres the deal on those carbide jobbies. They have ridges running the length of the thing. The kit has drill bits for each one, so you drill the hole & stay out of the threads, then drive this ridged rigid rod in the hole & those danged ridges press the wall of the Dutchman OUT into the threads its stuck in,,, Im sure it would work in some places, but Ive never managed to win with it. Maybe Im just not good at unscrewing screwups..

CONGRATULATIONS 4Carb, you pulled it off. I would be hunting a new carb right about now. Getting the screw out was quite the feat, but doing no damage? Total class act.

For me, getting a pipe dutchman out is the easiest. Take a round punch & grind a groove in it till it has an edge like a chisel, only its round, then start cutting the thing down in a couple of places till it will split in the grooves when you start to try to make a groove 90* away from the 2 youve made.

HEY, 4 Carbie, what kind of ease out did you use? How did you get so centered up on such a skinny little screw?

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/06/09 at 08:45:13

It took patience. And crossing my fingers, arms legs and toes. I looked at the new mixture screw and tried to guess how deep the head was. I started with a 1/16 bit and kept going up each size with the bits until I felt comfortable with trying the extractor. I was actually planning on getting at least a new carb base.

I have a set of Napa part number 2419 spiral screw extractors. Like these KD, about 1/4 to 1/3 of the way down, with the same part number: http://getmetools.com/kdtools.html

I hate the easy outs, they seem to break off wayy to easy. And of coarse you can't drill them out. These spirals seem to work.

And here is a pic of the mixture screw still attached to the extractor after I removed it.

http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j233/4carbcorvair/S40%20bike/100_0394.jpg

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/09 at 11:08:06

Next time Im in trouble, Ill hunt some of those up, Thanks.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Digger on 08/06/09 at 21:27:55

786761667B7C4D7D4D75676B20120 wrote:

....I have a few types of "Easy Outs". Whoever named them that should be jailed for fraud or something. They cant really be called screw extractors, because Ive yet to make them do that.....

Some of my darkest hours have involved Easy Outs.

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Serowbot on 08/06/09 at 21:33:04

Nice job 4carb!....
I gotta' get me a set of those!... ;D

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/07/09 at 05:41:47

If any of you buy the spirals and one breaks off, don't come yelling at me. ;D LOL

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Toymaker on 08/07/09 at 06:30:10

D@mn fine job there skippy, I couldn't have done better....kudos to you :)

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by 4carbcorvair on 08/15/09 at 15:36:58

After messing with the mixture screw, it's still a bit on the lean side. A bit sluggish down low, backfire on hard acceleration and a fart when I shut it down. Not bad though, better than I thought. Header pipe started turning a nice gold color.

And.... I found my Jet kit from Lancer!!! Wooohoooo! It was right in front of me the whole time in a plain white envelope. Jets, washers and gasket..... Now to find time to do it. :) I'm assuming the one with all of the holes in it is the primary/low speed????

Title: Re: brass idle mixture screw. Help
Post by Toymaker on 08/15/09 at 17:04:59

they are different. Youcan't put the pilot in the main hole and viseversa :)