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Message started by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 13:21:08

Title: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 13:21:08

I am still trying to accumulate parts necessary to try automotive parts on the Savage engine. I came up with a great design for the stand but to make it means I have to weld it. So... I bought a Harbour Freight Flux wire welder. I took classes for stick welding once upon a time but this is going to be a challenge for me. It should be good enough for what I have in mind. 1 inch angle x 1/8" thick.
The engine will be about 3" off the stand so that if I ever need to open the cases for any reason, I can easily drain the oil. I am going to mount the engine on the stand using a steel lazy susan that I have so I can rotate it for better access. It is designed to hold much heavier items than the Savage engine.
As I have state before, any suggestions or comments are welcome. Anything learned of value will be shared. Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by Charon on 07/26/09 at 14:31:27

Presumably, "engine" means the whole thing including the transmission and clutch - and the electric starter. What are you planning to use for a load on the engine? Whatever it is, it has to absorb the entire power output, and ideally provide some way to measure that output. In short, a dynamometer. If you mount the engine on the lazy susan, you'll need to find a way to lock it in place when you are running the engine. You will also need a fan to keep the air-cooled engine from overheating. I am not trying to make this difficult, but unless you load the engine, you cannot apply much throttle to it without having it over-rev (limited by its rev limiter, if indeed it has one).

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 14:41:14

Thanks Charon for the reply. I have a clamping device in mind for locking the rotation. As for any real power output, that will be while in the frame. My reason for this is to see if it can be made to run utilizing auto parts in place of as many parts as is feasible. Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 14:45:13

To add, being on a test stand rather than in the bike, makes it easier to swap out and change parts and wiring. If there is any reasonable success, it would be replaced into the frame for a more realistic look. Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by seviersavage on 07/26/09 at 15:36:44

Auto darkening helmet and test the welds. Do some sample welds and try to destroy the joints with your hammer, If the weld holds up your on the right track. 110 volt will do 1/8 th but not more.
Seviersavage

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by verslagen1 on 07/26/09 at 15:50:44

An squirrel cage fan out an old swamp cooler could be driven by the drive pulley to provide cooling air and some load.

Post pic's so we can comment on your design.

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 19:22:50

Thanks for the replies guys, I don't anticipate any real problems with the welding and I have a large Hunter fan that will take care of the cooling task. I've really thought out the basics and most of the parts that I want to try and use. However.. I could use some suggestions in what could be used to replace the Regulator/Rectifier.
As far as pictures are concerned, I haven't taken the time to find a place to upload the pictures to yet. I've read the instructions on how to post pictures so I'll get around to it some time. I am not the most computer literate person around so it could take some time.

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by Charon on 07/26/09 at 20:05:16

Easiest would be to just ignore the regulator/rectifier. Leave it off, but be careful of the stator wires which will have some fairly high AC voltage on them. Insulate them and don't let them short to the engine or each other. Use a convenient car or trolling motor battery to supply the ignition system, and run it as a total loss system. If need be you can recharge the car battery with a standard charger when you are done. Unless you plan to run the engine for several hours, that will work.

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/26/09 at 20:18:30

The object of the exercise is to replace Savage parts with auto or other parts that will function in their place. It would be nice to know that you can replace an ignition module for about $27 versus well over $300 for the Suzuki version. Farther down the line, I have a plan in my head to replace the Alternator with an auto one. That would deal with the Rectifier/Regulator. That will take a bit of machining and I want to get there without resorting to that in the current experiments. Who Knows? Maybe the Rectifier/Regulator inside an alternator can be removed and used. Anyone with any knowledge of their use? Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by klx650sm2002 on 07/27/09 at 04:17:57

Please excuse my ignorance but what is a "Lazy Susan" ?
Clive W :)

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/27/09 at 07:22:38

A "Lazy Susan" is usally thought of as an item in the kitchen that allows you to rotate something that is sitting on it. Just think of a surface on which another surface that sits on it, is able to rotate by means of a bearing of sorts. Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by serenity3743 on 07/27/09 at 10:27:07

707D170 wrote:

It was named after Susan, who was too lazy to say "Please pass the peas and potatoes," so they made her a turntable to put in the middle of the fancy eating table with all the food on it. [smiley=cool.gif]

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by genejohnson on 07/27/09 at 13:50:34

Never knew why it was called that! Ya learn something everyday. Gene

Title: Re: Test Stand Engine Experiment
Post by Charon on 07/27/09 at 17:33:15

Auto alternator/regulators work differently than motorcycle alternator/regulators. The auto system uses the voltage regulator to control the magnetic field in the alternator, thus controlling the output. Motorcycle systems use permanent magnets in the alternator, and the output cannot be reduced. So, excess output is dumped to ground (shorted) by the regulator. The designers tend to design the system to produce little more than the power needed, so as to avoid the power drain caused by shunting the excess.

Someone on here remarked that the ignition module on the S40/Savage closely resembles an ignition system used on some Fords. I think I remember the term TFI, but don't quote me. At least on earlier Fords (I had a '79 Lincoln) the ignition developed a spark whenever the magnet in the distributor passed the pickup coil, but the timing advance was mechanical (centrifugal and vacuum). I don't know whether the Ford system was a true CDI, but the S40 isn't.

If you are into electronics, it might be possible to rectify the three-phase AC coming out of the stator assembly into DC (which is part of the function of the regulator/rectifier assembly), then use some variation on an electronic regulator to control the results. Instead of dumping the excess you might be able to work up a series regulator, or even the output half of a switching power supply. That approach wouldn't qualify as using auto parts, however.