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Message started by Digger on 07/10/09 at 10:04:21

Title: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Digger on 07/10/09 at 10:04:21

I did a little research on what is recommended to seal the cylinder head cover.

Here is a link to the Permatex catalog:

http://www.permatex.com/documents/AAM%20Catalog.PX0078E.pdf

If you go to page 72 (71 of 80), you'll see the cross reference for Suzuki Bond 1216 (recommended for this job in the Suzuki FSM). It says that Permatex Ultra Grey (not to be confused with the Permatex MotoSeal® 1 Ultimate Gasket Maker Grey) is the recommended stuff to use for this job. I'll be using it this time.

Regarding the rubber cap that goes on the top of the head, Suzuki does not call for a sealant here. However, just about everyone here uses a sealant of some type on the plug. I used Permatex Ultra Copper the last time I did this job, but the plug started leaking after about 5000 miles. Note that this was with the old-style plug.

I've touted the Ultra Copper here in the past, but it's time to try something else.

I'll be putting in a new-style plug this time, and am going to try this stuff:

Permatex® Ultra Rubber Gasket Sealant & Dressing (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Ultra_Rubber_Gasket_Sealant_Dressing.htm)

I think it will also be good for sealing the camshaft end cap and even the o-rings on the valve inspection caps.

I'll let you guys know how everything works out.

I now open the floor for comments.

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by seviersavage on 07/11/09 at 07:49:11

I'm interested how the price compares? I'm looking at pulling the head cover soon so I'll be needing one or the other sealant.
Report back buddy.
Seviersavage

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Oldfeller on 07/11/09 at 10:01:04

Past comments on using the new style plug with the modern silicones say "the little sucker goes in the hole right easy and in a half minute later it tries to pop right back out because the pre-cure silicone is so durn slick".

Issue is the new plug has a lot of retention compression and the wet silicone is slicker than bat shite -- there is more than enough slick there and plenty of force there to move that plug when your back is turned.

Solution for the others has been to put some significant amount of weight on top of the plug during the silicone's cure time so it stays down in the hole and in full compression. It is important that silicone NOT see movement during its cure out (once it gets past the full liquid state) or you can get a leak on the rubber plug repair as the semi set silicone can develops tears and fissures if it moves after the set up starts.

Humidity in the air (moisture) and heat (temp) are the catalyst for silicone setting, so if you want to speed things along once you get it all clamped up then spray a little water on it. It doesn't take much, just a spritz. Then give it like 4 hours of clamp time to finish the set up completely.

Having the head warm to the touch helps some, think on this if it is winter time and you are in a cold garage. Got you a hair dryer or heat gun?

Warm head and a spritz of water will get that lump of wet silicone full hard for you inside an hour, easy.

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Digger on 07/11/09 at 19:43:27

4D4E5B505D5B4C49575252575F534D3E0 wrote:

I'm interested how the price compares? I'm looking at pulling the head cover soon so I'll be needing one or the other sealant.
Report back buddy.
Seviersavage

Sevier,

At Checker Auto, the Ultra Gray was less than $7.00 and the Rubber Gasket Sealant was less than $4.00.

I plan on using the Ultra Gray for the gasketing surface and the Rubber Gasket Sealant on the rubber plug, the rubber camshaft end cap., and maybe the valve inspection cap o-ring seals. Two different products for two different types of applications.

IHTH!

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Digger on 07/11/09 at 19:55:41

1D3E3634373E3E3720520 wrote:

Old,

I'll be trying this stuff for the rubber plug:

Permatex® Ultra Rubber Gasket Sealant & Dressing (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Ultra_Rubber_Gasket_Sealant_Dressing.htm)

It is not silicone based, so maybe it won't be as slippery as the silicone sealants are. It is supposed to eliminate "slippery" rubber gaskets and you are supposed to let it get tacky before installing the gasket.

Here is the Technical Data Sheet on the Ultra Rubber Gasket
Sealant & Dressing:

TDS (http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/85409.pdf)

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by vhfkid on 07/12/09 at 06:30:18

Digger,

For what it's worth I used the Gray silicone on everything when I pulled my head cover. The package says it works great for high torque bolt patterns or something like that. I found in the heat of a Texas summer it tacked up nicely by the time I was done running the bead around the head. Also changing to the new style plug I didn't have any issues with it moving, the gray stuff appeared to seal it well. We went 1500 miles last month on it, and narry an oil leak on my bike.

IMHO the permetex gray is easier to use than the red or black, I have yet to try the ultra copper, but I also liked the look of the gray on the side of my non painted head, I might buy black for the wife's if ever I need, so it stays black looking.

I think todays sealants are tops! Just about all of them are high temp, and oil and gas resistance is easily found too.

VHFKID

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Digger on 07/15/09 at 21:17:48

VHF,

I was a Permatex Ultra Copper guy for years, but my rubber plug (old style, BTW) started leaking after almost 5000 miles after I installed it using the Ultra Copper.

I found out that the Permatex Ultra Grey was a replacement for the Suzuki 1216 called for in the FSM, so I'm expecting good results with the Ultra Grey.

Re the Ultra Black: Make sure you do your homework before using this on the head cover. Here is an excerpt from the Technical Data Sheet for the Permatex® Ultra Black® Maximum Oil Resistance RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Black_Maximum_Oil_Resistance_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm):

6. Assemble parts immediately while silicone is still wet.

7. Finger tighten flange only until material begins to seep
out the sides of the flange.

8. Allow to set for at least two hours and re-torque at least
one quarter to one half turn.

I'm not sure this is the best stuff for the head cover.

Title: Re: Head Cover & Rubber Plug Sealants
Post by Digger on 07/17/09 at 18:45:26

As stated in my intentions above, I used

Permatex® Ultra Rubber Gasket Sealant & Dressing (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/Permatex_Ultra_Rubber_Gasket_Sealant_Dressing.htm)

for the new (new style) rubber plug I put in my head recently.

I hope that the next time I address this issue it will be to tell you that the plug went over 4000 miles without leaking.

Here is what the plug looked like after insertion:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/RubberPlug-RubberGasketSealantE.jpg

It's been in there a few days now and the sealant remains tacky.