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Message started by serenity3743 on 07/06/09 at 10:26:36

Title: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by serenity3743 on 07/06/09 at 10:26:36

I have searched here and on EBay and can't find info, which I know I've seen, about a complete bolt set to replace the sorry a$$ed cheap bolts on a Savage engine. It seems that every time I tear it down, a bolt breaks or bolt threads strip or a bolt head strips. This time it was two bolts on the cam assembly cover and one of the header-to-cylinder flange attachment bolts. So now I'm not only pi$$ed about the bolts breaking, I'm also pi$$ed about the Search function here not working like it should >:( !!!!!!!!!!

Okay, I feel better now. Can anyone help me find the bolt set so I can order one? Thanks in advance.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by verslagen1 on 07/06/09 at 11:19:42

pardon me for not giving you a link.

search ebay, stainless steel bolt set ls650 or s40

The sellers name is something like stainlesssteelscrews

$35 for a complete set, only thing it don't include is carb set.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by Boule’tard on 07/06/09 at 11:31:49

This is clearly homework that needs to be done, and a possible money maker. One of these days when I'm not up to my eyeballs in projects I'll start a thread on "What fasteners suck worst?" with subcategories like "apparently made of cheap Chinese pot-metal" and "PITA to remove and would be better if they were hex or allen head."

With that information one could make a list of the most-desired fasteners, place a bulk quantity order at McMaster-Carr, assemble kits, and sell them.

So far I've only delved into the carb screws and decided allen heads would be better. What I know about the cylinder head bolts, valve hatch bolts and other sub-par fasteners is all hearsay. But I bet I'll have a good sense of the good bad and ugly once I go in to torque the head bolts..

EDIT: but then if some dude on Ebay already did it... :D

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by Boule’tard on 07/06/09 at 11:42:03

YESSS!! Ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUZUKI-SAVAGE-LS650-S40-polished-stainless-bolt-kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ65Q3a12Q7c66Q3a2Q7c39Q3a1Q7c72Q3a1205Q7c293Q3a1Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem56331f3fddQQitemZ370224873437QQptZMotorcyclesQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories)

verslagen1 rocks

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by srinath on 07/06/09 at 11:51:00

The stock engine case bolts have a section of them between the threads and the head which is a little thinner than the threads.
They also have wider bases, larger diameter bases than the allen bolts. Both of these combine to give you a better bolt than the straight on allens which definetly are smaller heads. The stock bolts are designed to break than strip the threads when you over torque them. They also are going to have lower seat pressure with the same torque than the smaller allens.
I would definetly replace the phillips ones with allens though - for sure.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by Rocco on 07/06/09 at 12:57:19

y don't u just paint em black? lol

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by bill67 on 07/06/09 at 13:14:23

The soft screws and bolts that come on jap motorcycles are soft so they don't vibrate lose.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by serenity3743 on 07/06/09 at 13:58:02

49445E474E5F4A594F2B0 wrote:

BINGO!!!!!!!!!! Thanks Boule'Tard and Verslagen!!!!!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by ralfyguy on 07/06/09 at 14:09:53

On some applications on the bike, you shouldn't use stainless steel bolts, as there is a certain bolt strength required. You shouldn't replace bolts with for example 10.8 or worse 12.9 rating, as SS bolts don't even get close to that. Stainless steel is a somewhat tough but not hard material, and is not suitable for cylinder heads and such. I have worked with this stuff for years. You tighten one down and it seems to stretch like rubber. Therefore use it only where strength is secondary. I have lots of SS bolts on my bike, but nowhere safety related.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by rigidchop on 07/06/09 at 14:11:04

http://www.workingclasschoppers.com/

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by Gort on 07/06/09 at 14:17:13

564548425D43515D240 wrote:

Absolutely right! Do not use stainless for head bolts for anything requiring heavy torque. They break easily. I always use grade 8 for any serious applications.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by verslagen1 on 07/06/09 at 14:19:48

These aren't the head bolts, they are the head cover bolts.

And use either some oil or anti-sieze when installing to prevent corrosion.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by Flemming from Denmark on 07/06/09 at 15:20:32

well! my english is'nt so good, so I found nothing with the search function. Can somebody please help me with a complete list of all the bolts, washers etc. needed for a complete change to stainless? I have access to a company with a complete, metric. stainless collection :) for free ;) The owner of the company ow's me a lot, and it's hard for me to use all that stainless steel :)

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by serenity3743 on 07/07/09 at 05:14:57

4370766A7770020 wrote:

[quote author=564548425D43515D240 link=1246901196/0#8 date=1246914593]On some applications on the bike, you shouldn't use stainless steel bolts, as there is a certain bolt strength required. You shouldn't replace bolts with for example 10.8 or worse 12.9 rating, as SS bolts don't even get close to that. Stainless steel is a somewhat tough but not hard material, and is not suitable for cylinder heads and such. I have worked with this stuff for years. You tighten one down and it seems to stretch like rubber. Therefore use it only where strength is secondary. I have lots of SS bolts on my bike, but nowhere safety related.

Absolutely right! Do not use stainless for head bolts for anything requiring heavy torque. They break easily. I always use grade 8 for any serious applications.[/quote]

Okay, so I shouldn't use SS on the main head bolts. Seems like the head cover/cam assembly should be okay, though, right? What about the clutch cover and generator cover? Anybody had any experience with those, and what are your opinions?

As a side note, the one bolt I thought had broken when attaching the head cover/cam assembly to the head, I found out when I extracted it again it wasn't broken at all. Upon closer examination, I saw that it had a heli-coil on it, so the internal threads must have been stripped. Evidently the heli-coil is not longer effective, so I have to redo it. Never used heli-coil before. Does anyone have any advice on how to use it?

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by srinath on 07/07/09 at 07:45:10

Stainless I thought was harder than grade 8. 12.9 I thought was the metric equivalent of the SAE 8.

I dunno, I stay with stock for all engine bolts, I think they have a necked design which is better IMHO.
All the body bits get SS ... in fact the side cover bolts and the air box screws etc, definite allen button head SS.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by ralfyguy on 07/07/09 at 20:31:23

The strength of a steel is mainly determined by the content of iron and carbon. Especially the carbon content is essential for hardening the steel. That's why high carbon steel is used in applications where strength matters. Tools are made from high carbon steel and other ingredients like chromium and molybdenium. For steel to harden it needs to have a minimum of 0.8% carbon, and that's the low end. Bolts are treated similar, depending on the grade, but are not necessarily hardened, but strength is achieved with certain ingredients. Stainless steel however doesn't contain iron or carbon, especially not the iron part, which makes it non-rusting. Stainless steel usually contains chrome and nickel, which gives it a certain strength, but the main target is non-corrosion. The most popular stainless steel is the one with 18% chrome and 8% nickel, or 10% nickel. This is the same stuff used in your silver ware and pots and pans and kitchen sinks. This steel mainly just looks good and has a certain strength, but is not suitable where high strength matters. Also because it's more tough than hard, makes it a bi*** to machine it, causing the machining tools to require alot of cooling, or they burn up rather quickly. When torquing SS bolts down hard, they tend to stretch and relax, requiring them to be retorqued again and the same thing happens again. Usually the third time they stay torqued, but it's not nearly as high as a head bolt needs to be. Eventually the material stretched enough to just break. ALso when using SS bolts make sure you lube them a little. NEVER put them in dry, especially not aluminum. The seize VERY fast!
5A5B4047485D41290 wrote:

Title: Re: where to find stainless steel bolt set
Post by smokin_blue on 07/08/09 at 02:49:49

35342F2827322E460 wrote:

I doubt the necked design is anything more than the cheaper of two styles of manufacture. Threads can be cut or rolled. If they are rolled they end up slightly larger than the shank material you start out with. If they are cut it will end up with the same major diameter as the shank. That said very few bolts today are cut.