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Message started by Digger on 07/04/09 at 14:37:13

Title: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cover?
Post by Digger on 07/04/09 at 14:37:13

OK, I give up! I tried some searches with no joy.

A question for the Savagista:

What is the purpose of the plug at the bottom front portion of the clutch cover?

I am referring to #8 in the diagram below:

http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ClutchCoverBoltE.jpg

TIA!

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/04/09 at 15:43:07

My O Pinion,, It was necessary to put tooling in from there to make the oil passages, so, they had no choice but plug it. Just so happens, its handy for folks who want to slap an oil cooler on.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by LANCER on 07/05/09 at 03:19:35

It is used by the dealership and/or factory, in conjunction with a similar port on the front on of engine case, to hook up a oil pressure guage when testing the engine.
The one on the engine case faces forward and is a slightly different size. I believe there is a picture of the oil flow within the engine posted in the tech section which shows these ports and how they can be used for attaching an oil cooler to the engine.

Found the pics on my snapfish...

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp342%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E639%3E697%3EWSNRCG%3D32338747%3C74%3A4nu0mrj

http://images1.snapfish.com/232323232%7Ffp344%3Enu%3D323%3A%3E639%3E697%3EWSNRCG%3D32338747%3C%3A6%3B3nu0mrj

With the plugs installed the oil takes a short route from the pump to the filter, but if the plugs are removed then at least part of the oil will go through the ports, and oil filter and/or pressure/temp guage if installed.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/05/09 at 04:56:39

& while Lancer is correct in How the port is used,l still think the ports came into existence not by an engineer simply wanting a plug there, but because they had no choice. If the wanted an oil galley, they had to drill it, so theres a hole that must be plugged. If it was just so theyd have a way to hook up an oil gauge, then there would only be one.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by thumperclone on 07/05/09 at 06:52:22

according to the ssm thats is the oil pressure port
7.1 > 10.7 psi @ 3000 rpm oil temp 140F
that is the port i used for my oil temp gauge sender

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Kropatchek on 07/05/09 at 08:44:00

I have a different opinion, see if you can catch me:
The engine was at the beginning in a different frame, the Tempter a 400 cc engine. The plug could be removed to drain the oilfilter housing.
If it was only there to make an oilpassage the engineers would save the machining and installation of a threaded plug. Instead the would have plugged the hole with an alluminum plug, permanently.
BTW the plug facing forward is indeed for the oilpressure gauge. :D

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 21:45:24

Thanks, everyone, for your answers.

It doesn't look as if it is something to lose sleep over.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by MotoBuddha on 01/05/11 at 15:18:52

I'm trying to figure something out from the diagram above showing the direction of oil flow, specifically the part highlighted in pink.

With a pressure gauge connected to the front-facing "out" port, oil still flows through the crossover to the passage in the clutch cover. Here's where my tiny brain starts to go, "Huh?" How do they get an accurate pressure reading when oil doesn't particularly "need" to go down that little dead passage to the gauge? I don't doubt that it works, I just don't understand exactly how. So there's pressure pumping through the system and oil will go wherever it can. Is it that even when the oil can't go anywhere, pressure is the same everywhere? Is it that the pressure isn't just in the direction of flow, but in every direction?

Now for part two of my brain fart. If there's an oil cooler connected between the two highlighted ports, it seems to my tiny brain that only part of the oil would flow through the cooler while the rest flowed through the crossover. If that's the case, then at what point does the resistance in the oil cooler and lines have the oil thinking, "Screw this, I'm taking the shortcut," leaving very little willing to make the schlep through the cooler, leaving it full but rather stagnant? Or does the thermal change encourage flow through the cooler?

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Oldfeller on 01/05/11 at 16:25:41

You are right, the only back pressure in this entire system comes from two places, one is a flow jet at the start of the passages leading to the transmission and the other is the cam journal clearances up in the head.

I personally thing the only place you can take a real world oil pressure reading on this system is at the end of the last head cam journal oil passage. Why? Checking it down below does not "see" any blocked oil passages, etc. They could be blocked off completely and you would just be reading the oil jet flow/pressure to the transmission and likely think all was OK with a low gallery check.

The way folks force oil flow through their coolers is to play with the clutch cover gasket, blanking off the round hole that that crossover tube follows through the paper gasket. Now the oil has to go round through the cooler.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/11 at 17:22:09

There's a right angled turn to go thru the cover port, so like most things oil will tend to go straight. This creates a stagnant pool for the oil pressure to accumulate, giving a more accurate reading of the oil pressure. And I think the cover port is slightly smaller than the passageway.

BTW, pretty sure all the plugs are the same size.

HEY! [smiley=vrolijk_26.gif] I got's one of those port adapters for the pressure port. We've been discussing pulling out one of the plugs in the head cover to mount a pressure gage. No need, there's one of these plugs holding in the rocker shaft. 8-)

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by thumperclone on 01/05/11 at 17:22:51

the front port is where the oil gauge(09915-74510) gets hooked up, just one hose that passage comes straight from the oil pump.
hooking up an oil cooler there and to the bottom plug may work if cooler is lower than the gallery..
my temp gauge is hooked up to the forward port and in 4 years has never showed temps high enough to justify an oil cooler even in 100f summer crossing the desert....

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by MotoBuddha on 01/05/11 at 17:31:29

3C2F3839262B2D2F247B4A0 wrote:

BTW, pretty sure all the plugs are the same size.

I measured them a little while ago. The one in the crankcase is an M14 while the one in the clutch cover is an M12. Both are 1.25 thread pitch, though.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/11 at 17:50:07

Okay, you want the REAL answer? You want to know why that plugs there? I think I finally figured it out. I decided to discover the purpose of that plug, so, I fired it up & pulled the plug. I am convinced the plug is there to keep the oil in.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/11 at 19:52:12

113328331E293838343D5C0 wrote:

[quote author=3C2F3839262B2D2F247B4A0 link=1246743433/0#9 date=1294276929]BTW, pretty sure all the plugs are the same size.

I measured them a little while ago. The one in the crankcase is an M14 while the one in the clutch cover is an M12. Both are 1.25 thread pitch, though.[/quote]

Well dag gummit, you're right.
front plug and rocker plug are M14.
bottom plug, oil drain and sparky are M12.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Reelthing on 01/10/11 at 07:57:48

445B5D5A4740714171495B571C2E0 wrote:

I’ll go with that answer. As well as the insulation on wire is there to
keep the smoke in – man you let the smoke out of wire and it’s sure
hard to get it back in.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Boule’tard on 01/10/11 at 09:20:16

507269725F687979757C1D0 wrote:

How do they get an accurate pressure reading when oil doesn't particularly "need" to go down that little dead passage to the gauge? I don't doubt that it works, I just don't understand exactly how. So there's pressure pumping through the system and oil will go wherever it can. Is it that even when the oil can't go anywhere, pressure is the same everywhere? Is it that the pressure isn't just in the direction of flow, but in every direction?

There does not have to be oil flowing directly by the sensor for there to be a readable, static pressure. So a pressure guage would work when threaded into either the front or bottom plug. Pressure would be the same throughout the oil lines only if they were 100% blocked at their outlets. In normal use, there is a dynamic pressure loss in every inch of line and around every bend. Pressure is greatest just after the pump and decreases the further you get from it.

507269725F687979757C1D0 wrote:

Now for part two of my brain fart. If there's an oil cooler connected between the two highlighted ports, it seems to my tiny brain that only part of the oil would flow through the cooler while the rest flowed through the crossover. If that's the case, then at what point does the resistance in the oil cooler and lines have the oil thinking, "Screw this, I'm taking the shortcut," leaving very little willing to make the schlep through the cooler, leaving it full but rather stagnant? Or does the thermal change encourage flow through the cooler?

The oil would not say "screw this" and flip like a switch from one path to the other. The amount going through the cooler and cross pipe would adjust so that the pressure loss is the same for either path. The thermal change, if anything, would increase the viscosity of the oil returning from the cooler and decrease the flow through it. But the pressure drop across the two paths would still be the same.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/11 at 20:21:02

The thermal change, if anything, would increase the viscosity of the oil returning from the cooler and decrease the flow through it.

That would make sense to me, but I have to ask, what about these multigrade oils? I thot they flowed ( say its a 10/30, just for grins) like a 10 weight when cold & expanded & flowed like a 30 weight at operating temps.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by Boule’tard on 01/10/11 at 20:52:12

Multigrade oils still thicken up as they cool and thin out as they're heated, just not as dramatically as straight-weight oil. What they mean by "10W-40" is that the oil will flow like a straight 10 weight at the "Winter" temperature (whatever that is) and like a straight 40 at full running temperature. Some people take that to mean the oil actually thickens as it heats up.. not the case. A cold 10-weight still pours thicker than a hot 40-weight.

Dang, I wish Charon was still around. He'd school us good.

Title: Re: Purpose of Plug at Bottom Front of Clutch Cove
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/11 at 21:04:05

616C766F6677627167030 wrote:

Yea, didnt agree with everything he said, but the guy knew a lot of technical stuff, smart fella, I miss him.

& what you say makes sense, I was asking, not standing on a soap box, but you knew that.