SuzukiSavage.com /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header!-FIXED /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1246415470 Message started by Digger on 06/30/09 at 19:31:10

Title: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header!-FIXED Post by Digger on 06/30/09 at 19:31:10 I need some advice. I did a search and could not find a problem like mine. I had the exhaust system off of my bike (see signature) today. The header and muffler are both OEM items. The heat shield is rubbing against the header.  A noticeable amount of metal has been eroded away on both of these items where they are rubbing against each other.  Oddly enough, there does not appear to be any contact in this area when the bike is not running.  It seems as if the rubbing occurs because of the engine's natural vibrations. Here is the heat shield in its installed position: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeatSheild-InstalledE.jpg After removing the heat shield, you can see where it's been rubbing against the header: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/RubbedArea-HeaderE.jpg Here is a shot of the inboard side of the heat shield, where the rubbing is occurring: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/RubbedArea-HeatShieldE.jpg What I think I'm looking for is some type of material (high temperature resistant padding or durable tape) that I could put between the heat shield and the header to prevent any further wear. Or, perhaps I could add some extra washers at the rear muffler mounting point, thus raising the muffler up a bit. I could even, instead, add some extra washers between the heat shield and the footpeg bracket, thus increasing the static separation between the heat shield and the header pipe. Although I'm not real anal concerning the appearance of my bike, I'd like the solution to be difficult, if not impossible to see when all the parts are back in place. Ideas? TIA!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Gort on 06/30/09 at 20:16:31 There is an exhaust manifold gasket material sold in small rolls which is thick and flexible, and will withstand the heat from your pipes.  Its not paper and I forget where I saw it, either Autozone or Kragen.  But this problem should be able to be solved by correcting whatever caused it, rather than using padding. Have you dropped the bike?  Have you checked to see that everything is tight?  Has the exhaust been dismantled and put back together at some past time...perhaps incorrectly?

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Stimpy on 06/30/09 at 22:58:15 mmmm :-? ...it's not really supposed to do that, I think your muffler and/or joint are kinda lose or something; check ur back bracket and re-pack ur joint w/fiber, good luck

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by verslagen1 on 06/30/09 at 23:28:09 There's supposed to be 2 pads in the back and 2 in the front. You could wrap the pipe with exhaust tape under the heat shield. Bet you could find some ceramic tape samples  ;)  that would do as well.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by odvelasc on 07/01/09 at 06:44:08 Your pipe is loose dude. I have removed my pipe a few times and dont have that issue. My issue has been that the nuts dont screw back on to the heat shield as the part the nuts screw onto turns with the nut and the nut vibrates off. But I fixed that problem with lock tight. Perhaps your muffler is not mounted to the frame properly. There is a mounting arm where it bolts onto. did you positin the pipe back to its original spot and tighten your nuts at the cylinder nice and tight?

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by marine5317 on 07/01/09 at 19:06:03 Like Verslagen said, there are little retangular pads about 3/16 -1/4 inch thick that were at one time glued inside the heat shield. I doubt if you can buy them from the dealer. If you can get hold of a new automotive brake shoe you could cut some of the lining off and make new ones. Use high temp glue, maybe J B Weld.                                                                                 Ride Safe                                                                                 Marine5317

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/01/09 at 23:02:50 iS THE MUFFLER TIGHT ON THE REAR SUPPORT? cAN YOU RAISE THE MUFFLER UP A BIT IN THAT SUPPORT & GET THE CLEARANCE BACK DOWN FRONT>? OOps dang caplox, sorry.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by serenity3743 on 07/02/09 at 05:24:57 20393C3722393D6363676164500 wrote: Like Verslagen said, there are little retangular pads about 3/16 -1/4 inch thick that were at one time glued inside the heat shield. I doubt if you can buy them from the dealer. I've seen the pads on a microfiche and I did buy them when I installed a new muffler and header.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Boule’tard on 07/02/09 at 09:41:17 I think the header has rotated slightly outward.  A quick fix would be to loosen the header collar, muffler clamp and rear mount, then tighten them while you apply a little inward pressure to the header.  Wedge a small piece of wood or something between the shield and header as you re-torque the bolts. When I put on a Dyna muffler I had to do that, as well as remove the asbestos pads (good riddance) and put a small washer behind the lower heat shield mount.  For some reason there was always plenty of clearance at the top of the shield, but the lower one was a PITA.  I will look for the same problem you have; thanks for the heads-up.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by trapper_canada on 07/02/09 at 13:59:11 38352F363F2E3B283E5A0 wrote: I think the header has rotated slightly outward.  A quick fix would be to loosen the header collar, muffler clamp and rear mount, then tighten them while you apply a little inward pressure to the header.  Wedge a small piece of wood or something between the shield and header as you re-torque the bolts. When I put on a Dyna muffler I had to do that, as well as remove the asbestos pads (good riddance) and put a small washer behind the lower heat shield mount.  For some reason there was always plenty of clearance at the top of the shield, but the lower one was a PITA.  I will look for the same problem you have; thanks for the heads-up. Had the same issue with the same pipe.  I bet when that Dyna ehaust is secured to the header and then bolted into the mounting bracket the angle is a tad off. I like your idea of putting a washer in the rear.  That is where it is tight on mine too.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Boule’tard on 07/04/09 at 09:07:58 Well fudge, marshmellows, and crappity-smack, mine rubs too.  Without the pads the header wants to drift outward over time. I "fixed" it by folding some aluminum foil 16 layers thick, and about the same 1"x2" size as the original asbestos pads.  Then I loosened the lower acorn nut and put the aluminum pad where the pinch was tightest before tightening the nut.  If that doesn't stay put I'll switch to copper shim stock (same as I used to shim out the muffler joint) and stick it on with a dab of Autozone muffler adhesive. Thank you Digger,  I need another exhaust leak like I need a hole in the head(er).

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:02:11 607364657A7771737827160 wrote: There's supposed to be 2 pads in the back and 2 in the front. You could wrap the pipe with exhaust tape under the heat shield. Bet you could find some ceramic tape samples  ;)  that would do as well. Ver, You may be onto something here. As can be seen in the pic below, my head shield has just one asbestos pad: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeatShield-OnePadE.jpg I believe it's always been this way, since I can see where this pad has been rubbing on the header pipe: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeaderScarfromHeatShieldPadE.jpg But, since there is only one rub mark like this on the header pipe, I must assume that I've only had one asbestos pad on the heat shield all along. How many of the above-pictured rectangular asbestos pads are there supposed to be on the heat shield (my bike is in my signature)? TIA!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:08:24 Another piece to the puzzle: There are two rubber spacers that hold the muffler out from the rear muffler stay.  The forward one on my bike (see signature) was damaged. Here is the rear rubber spacer: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/MufflerCushion-UndamagedE.jpg Here is the front (damaged) rubber spacer: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/MufflerCushion-DamagedE.jpg One wonders if the misalignment of the muffler caused by the damaged rubber spacer could cause the above-mentioned rubbing.  My gut says no, but I'll investigate further.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/09 at 19:10:58 pretty sure mine had 2 in front and 2 in rear and not as big as yours. I'll try to confirm. also my front rubber bushing is damaged on both bikes.  think it's common.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:12:44 0437312D3037450 wrote: There is an exhaust manifold gasket material sold in small rolls which is thick and flexible, and will withstand the heat from your pipes.  Its not paper and I forget where I saw it, either Autozone or Kragen.  But this problem should be able to be solved by correcting whatever caused it, rather than using padding. Have you dropped the bike?  Have you checked to see that everything is tight?  Has the exhaust been dismantled and put back together at some past time...perhaps incorrectly? Gort, Thanks for your input. When I bought the bike, it had 50 miles on it.  I've never dropped it, but I suppose the PO could have. This is the first time I've ever had the pipe off of the bike. The padding (exhaust manifold gasket material) you mention might be a player....I'm still looking into the problem.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:21:33 6E6577646D607262010 wrote: Your pipe is loose dude. I have removed my pipe a few times and dont have that issue. My issue has been that the nuts dont screw back on to the heat shield as the part the nuts screw onto turns with the nut and the nut vibrates off. But I fixed that problem with lock tight. Perhaps your muffler is not mounted to the frame properly. There is a mounting arm where it bolts onto. did you positin the pipe back to its original spot and tighten your nuts at the cylinder nice and tight? Odv, Thanks for your input. You may be on to something (see above), as I discovered that the forward rubber spacer on the muffler's rear stay is damaged.  Perhaps a new part there will straighten everything out? You mentioned that you cannot get the nuts tight on your head shield.  Perhaps you may want to try keeping the long bolts the nuts screw on to from turning.  Use a wrench on the bolt heads on the port side of the engine to do this.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:22:56 657C7972677C782626222421150 wrote: Like Verslagen said, there are little retangular pads about 3/16 -1/4 inch thick that were at one time glued inside the heat shield. I doubt if you can buy them from the dealer. If you can get hold of a new automotive brake shoe you could cut some of the lining off and make new ones. Use high temp glue, maybe J B Weld. Ride Safe Marine5317 Marine, Another good idea, thanks!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:23:56 697670776A6D5C6C5C64767A31030 wrote: iS THE MUFFLER TIGHT ON THE REAR SUPPORT? cAN YOU RAISE THE MUFFLER UP A BIT IN THAT SUPPORT & GET THE CLEARANCE BACK DOWN FRONT>? OOps dang caplox, sorry. Jus, I'll experiment with different configurations. Thanks!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:25:52 4B5D4A5D56514C410B0F0C0B380 wrote: [quote author=20393C3722393D6363676164500 link=1246415470/0#5 date=1246500363]Like Verslagen said, there are little retangular pads about 3/16 -1/4 inch thick that were at one time glued inside the heat shield. I doubt if you can buy them from the dealer. I've seen the pads on a microfiche and I did buy them when I installed a new muffler and header. [/quote] Serenity. Thanks....the fiches I've seen (two different ones) showed just one pad on the backside of the heat shield.  And, I've got just one pad on the back of my heat shield.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:27:51 6E63796069786D7E680C0 wrote: I think the header has rotated slightly outward.  A quick fix would be to loosen the header collar, muffler clamp and rear mount, then tighten them while you apply a little inward pressure to the header.  Wedge a small piece of wood or something between the shield and header as you re-torque the bolts. When I put on a Dyna muffler I had to do that, as well as remove the asbestos pads (good riddance) and put a small washer behind the lower heat shield mount.  For some reason there was always plenty of clearance at the top of the shield, but the lower one was a PITA.  I will look for the same problem you have; thanks for the heads-up. Boul, Thanks....I'll experiment with different configurations.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:30:03 737E647D7465706375110 wrote: Well fudge, marshmellows, and crappity-smack, mine rubs too.  Without the pads the header wants to drift outward over time. I "fixed" it by folding some aluminum foil 16 layers thick, and about the same 1"x2" size as the original asbestos pads.  Then I loosened the lower acorn nut and put the aluminum pad where the pinch was tightest before tightening the nut.  If that doesn't stay put I'll switch to copper shim stock (same as I used to shim out the muffler joint) and stick it on with a dab of Autozone muffler adhesive. Thank you Digger,  I need another exhaust leak like I need a hole in the head(er). Boul, Well, I'll be dipped in doo! I may end up trying the aluminum foil trick myself before this is all said and done. Thanks for the update!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/08/09 at 19:32:58 5C4F5859464B4D4F441B2A0 wrote: pretty sure mine had 2 in front and 2 in rear and not as big as yours. I'll try to confirm. also my front rubber bushing is damaged on both bikes.  think it's common. Ver, Are you saying that you had a total of 4 pads on your heat shield? Also, when I reinstall the muffler, I'll see if I can do something to preserve the integrity of the forward rubber cushion on the rear muffler stay.  I'll post if I find something helpful.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by verslagen1 on 07/08/09 at 20:38:49 Just took a peek at my spares... The front one has just 2, one like yours and another in back. The rear heat shield has 4.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/09/09 at 11:08:09 140710110E0305070C53620 wrote: Just took a peek at my spares... The front one has just 2, one like yours and another in back. The rear heat shield has 4. Ver, You have inspired my lazy azz to take a closer look at the backside of my forward heat shield. Mystery solved!   8-) As you can see in the photo below (in which the contrast and brightness have been altered to accentuate the pertinent details), I used to have two pads there (I currently have just one).  You can see in the photo the "scar" left behind by the missing pad.  Where it went and when, I do not know.   :( http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/HeatShield-MissingPadEvidenceE.jpg I'll order another pad (they are cheap). However, my question now is What should I use to keep the new replacement pad in place? I'm tempted to use this stuff as "glue": Permatex Ultra Copper (http://www.permatex.com/products/motorcycle/motorcycle_gasketing/motorcycle_gasket_makers/motorcycle_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm) Or, maybe even this stuff: Permatex Black Silicone Adhesive Sealant (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/adhesives_sealants/sealants/Permatex_Black_Silicone_Adhesive_Sealant_b.htm) I've got a tube of each sitting in my garage refrigerator. Thoughts?

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by verslagen1 on 07/09/09 at 11:20:30 I'd hope the pad came with self stickum.  But the ultra copper would be my next choice too.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/17/09 at 19:03:57 Well, I got a brand new OEM asbestos heat shield pad and stuck it on (it came with adhesive)......and it did nothing to help my problem.   >:( I installed the forward heat shield with the new pad on it (it now has a total of two asbestos pads) and snugged up all four of the bolts that hold the OEM muffler to the bike (two header bolts and two rear muffler support nuts).  There was a gap between the header and the forward heat shield, but it was awfully small (about 0.035"). Well, I scratched my head a bit.  I then removed the four muffler bolts and added two thick washers to rearmost of the two studs that connect the rear of the muffler to the rear muffler support.  I put the washers between the muffler and the rear muffler support.  You can see the washers in this pic, they are silver: http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/WashersatMufflerSupportE.jpg I snugged everything up and then re-measured the heat shield gap.  I was now up to 0.050".  Not great, but an improvement.  Here is what the gap looks like now (you are looking forward and up from underneath the bike toward the rear of the forward heat shield): http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/ForwardHeatShieldGapE.jpg Not really the best of fixes, but I was too lazy to take the heat shield back off and hog out the rear mounting hole (perhaps the best fix).  Maybe I'll do that the next time I have the bike torn apart.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Boule’tard on 07/17/09 at 20:26:53 Digger, if you decide to put a soft metal pad between the parts, don't bother with the multiple layers of foil.. no good.  The vibration just packs it down to nothing, chews it up and spits it out.  I figured that would happen, so went with plan B,, bent a piece of copper to the radius of the heat shield, gave them a good scuff and stuck them together Versachem muffler seal. So far so good.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/17/09 at 21:24:22 6F62786168796C7F690D0 wrote: Digger, if you decide to put a soft metal pad between the parts, don't bother with the multiple layers of foil.. no good.  The vibration just packs it down to nothing, chews it up and spits it out.  I figured that would happen, so went with plan B,, bent a piece of copper to the radius of the heat shield, gave them a good scuff and stuck them together Versachem muffler seal. So far so good. Boul, I've got some sheet copper.  That sounds like a good idea if I run into problems down the road. Thanks!

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by DrunkenDwarf on 07/18/09 at 07:51:17 775A54545641330 wrote: Well, I got a brand new OEM asbestos heat shield pad and stuck it on (it came with adhesive)...... Where'd you find those? -D. Dwarf

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/18/09 at 19:04:04 666F6A63796E6A0B0 wrote: [quote author=775A54545641330 link=1246415470/15#25 date=1247882637]Well, I got a brand new OEM asbestos heat shield pad and stuck it on (it came with adhesive)...... Where'd you find those? -D. Dwarf [/quote] Got it at my dealer.  Cost less than three bucks.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 07/31/09 at 18:44:15 Oh, fiddlesticks! I checked the header/shield clearance right after riding the bike.  Something (heat?) caused the gap to disappear entirely and the header was again in contact with the forward exhaust shield. After everything cooled down, the gap magically reappeared. My next step will be to place some washers directly inboard of the forward exhaust shield mounting holes to move the entire shield outboard.

Title: Re: Help! OEM Heat Shield Rubbing on OEM Header! Post by Digger on 08/01/09 at 20:31:14 Well, I removed the forward exhaust shield, put one fairly thick washer on each of the two mounting bolts, put the shield back on and torqued everything down. End of problem.  No more rubbing. I also removed the washers I had added to the rear muffler mount bolt:   http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee201/Digger109/WashersatMufflerSupportE.jpg They had helped the clearance issue a little, but not enough. End of problem! Thanks to all who offered suggestions.

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