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Message started by Ramonesfiend on 06/23/09 at 19:42:54

Title: Brand new rider
Post by Ramonesfiend on 06/23/09 at 19:42:54

I just started riding on June 19th when I actually bought my 2005 s40. I am doing the basic riders course to learn more and get my license, but I have already put about 50miles on it. My dad showed me the basics. he "picks" on me for having a small bike since he has an 07 Harley softtail.I couldn't imagine starting on another bike because it has the perfect amount of power for a brand new rider. I am glad to be part of this forum.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by Skid Mark on 06/23/09 at 19:49:32

Welcome. Go slow and easy. Practice lots. Before you know it you will be suprising the ol man

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by yumi on 06/23/09 at 19:52:58

I just got mine in April. Enjoy your new ride!

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by photojoe on 06/23/09 at 20:46:54

Don't feel bad about the old man ribbing you about the size of the Savage compare to HD. I woke up this morning to go for a blast and this thing was parked next to my bike: http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2008models/2008-Harley-Davidson-Touring-FLHTCUIUltraClassicElectraGlidea.jpg $20,000.00 worth of HD, next to my $1000.00 '87 Savage. My bike looked so fine next to that beast. Almost got poked in the eye by his antenna. But hey, for a coast to coast trip, I'd give the big HD a go anytime. But for blastin through these roads and traffic, sometimes bigger is not better.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by yumi on 06/23/09 at 20:53:36

3B23243F2421244B0 wrote:

Almost got poked in the eye by his antenna.

Good god, that antenna's just excessive. You'll learn to love the S40, Ramonesfiend; keep it simple, stupid.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by JaniceM on 06/24/09 at 00:10:11

Hia. Just got my bike in April of this year. Hubby rides a Harley, and he is the one who encouraged me to get the S40. I didn't have the strength to learn on his bike, and he said that wouldn't give me confidence or skill. I asked if it bothered him, and he said heck no! He didn't care if I wanted to move up to something else or keep this, or eventually take his Harley (he's had it 12 years and it would be an excuse for HIM to move on to another one he's had his eye on).
His friends mostly ride Harleys, but some of them have Yamahas and others, too. They just all share the same passion of being on two wheels.
Congrats on getting there! When you are riding together, it won't matter that you aren't on a Harley a bit.
Hope you will enjoy it.
My MSF course isn't until July.
Janice

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by PTRider on 06/24/09 at 07:20:40

Ramonesfiend,

A couple of suggestions...do take the basic rider course, but don't, for a minute, believe that it teaches you what you need to know. I just completed the experienced rider course, and I'm very disappointed in the curriculum.

So...read David L. Hough's books. Get them from your local library if you don't want them for your home library. If they aren't in the catalog, get the exact title, Proficient Motorcycling: The Ultimate Guide to Riding Well and request that they get the book for you through an inter-library loan. His next books, Street Strategies: A Survival Guide for Motorcyclists and More Proficient Motorcycling: Mastering the Ride are also very highly recommended, but start with "Proficient Motorcycling."

Read the info on two web sites, The Boomer Biker (http://genjac.com/BoomerBiker/), and Motorcycle Tips and Techniques (http://www.msgroup.org/default.aspx). The latter is better but more detailed. Practice the drills they suggest, especially "Motorcycle Tips" slow speed parking lot practice (PLP) and Hough's swerve drill.

Swerve drill? How does one drill for an emergency swerve?
---Pick a spot on safe dry pavement while riding.
---Push hard on one bar to swerve that way
---Push hard on the opposite bar to straighten out
---Push as needed to correct your direction.
Practice 2,999 more times, 'cuz it takes at least 3,000 practices to get something into muscle memory.

Keep in mind your four possible, mutually exclusive safety maneuvers
---Accelerate
-or-
---Brake hard with the front and moderate releasing to easy on the rear
-or-
---Swerve
-or-
---Do nothing and maintain speed and direction (all you CAN do with poor traction)
-or-
Do one action, then do another. NO TWO OF THESE CAN BE DONE AT THE SAME TIME WITHOUT CRASHING.

Get good safety gear...full coverage helmet with eye protection, leather or armored coat, leather pants or chaps, over-ankle boots, leather gloves, and wear all the gear all the time.

Don't be surprised if you learn some things that your Dad doesn't know. Either he's doing it without realizing it, or research has learned things that he's not yet up to date on.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by bill67 on 06/24/09 at 07:58:16

Lean the bike the way you want to go,You don't have to think which way to push.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by PTRider on 06/24/09 at 14:30:48

7F7471712B2A1D0 wrote:

Lean the bike the way you want to go,You don't have to think which way to push.

That will not work. The only way to turn a motorcycle at any speed above about 6 mph is by countersteering. The purpose of countersteering is to steer the bike away from the tire contact patch SO the bike leans into the turn. Anyway, that's what Keith Code (http://www.superbikeschool.com/multi-media/keith-interview-1.php) says: http://www.superbikeschool.com/machinery/no-bs-machine.php

Quote:

It shouldn't be alarming to me that riders still question how to steer their motorcycles but it is. Apparently, even after 90 years when it was first observed by the Wright brothers some confusion remains on this subject . Yes, their first engineering attempts were as bicycle manufacturers; the very observant brothers determined that tandem (one wheel in front of the other) wheeled vehicles counter steer. That was and still is correct.

Sources Of Confusion
It is easy to see how confusion arises on the subject of steering for anyone of us who started their riding on pedal bikes. The steering is so light on a bicycle that riders have difficulty in separating the shift of their body mass (leaning into it) with the slight effort it takes to countersteer.

Further confusion arises from word of mouth advice on riding. I have even seen articles in usually credible national magazines extolling the virtues of body mass type steering. Body Steering as it is called. I have surveyed thousands of riders on this point. Most riders still believe that some of the steering is being done with their body mass or weight shift or pressure on the motorcycle's tank or pegs. Their estimates on how effective these are in getting the bike to turn range anywhere from 10% to 90%, some believe all of it is weight shift.

Swoopy Steering
If it weren't so grim, it's almost comical to watch a rider who does not understand how steering is accomplished. You can see them riding down the freeway trying and failing to change lanes by body steering and still appear cool while doing so. I have seen it dozens of times. It goes like this. The rider does a very swoopy upper body swing in the direction he wishes to go but for an agonizing (to me) moment, nothing happens. There is a perceivable lag between the upper body swoop and the bike's deflection from its original course. How terrifying it must be to find that the bike doesn't instantly respond.

Stiffen To Steer
Following that is a stiffening of the rider's upper body. Only then does the bike respond and change lanes. You see how this works? The rider's body is positioned off-center, from his swoop, in the intended direction of the lane change. The stiffening on the bars creates the countersteering action, because he has either pushed on the inside bar or stiffened and pulled on the outside one or a combination of both. This stiffening is actually a mild panic reaction. Many riders have simply learned to live with the lag and to think it is how their bike handles. That is false, a motorcycle responds almost instantly to countersteering.

Taking one of our Kawasaki ZX 6Rs and solid mounting a set of bars 8" above the standard ones would positively isolate the various body shifting from the countersteering. If body-steering had any effect it would be simple to show it. I created a bike with that setup. One necessary detail was to mount an additional throttle on the upper, solid mounted, bars so the bike's stability could be maintained as the user rode down the road. So we wound up with two sets of handlebars and two operating throttles on the bike.

At this writing, we have run nearly 100 riders of all experience levels on this double barred bike. It has made believers out of every single one--in the actuality of countersteering of course. Even at speeds of no more than 20 to 35 mph, no matter how much you tug or push or pull or jump around on the bike, the best we saw was that the bike wiggled and became somewhat unstable. Did it turn? Not really. Would it turn at higher speed? Absolutely not. Could you avoid something in your path? No Way. Could anyone quick turn the bike? Hopeless! The best result was one of my riding coaches. He got into a full hang-off position and was able to persuade the bike, by jerking on it, to start on a wide, wide arc in the paddock at Laguna Seca, a piece of asphalt that is about 500 X 800 feet. Like turning an oil tanker ship, start at noon and be on the turning arc at around 1:00 PM. It wasn't smooth and it wasn't very effective.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by bill67 on 06/24/09 at 15:03:03

Pt rider did you ever ride a bicycle with no hands and steer it?

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by alcoa on 06/24/09 at 18:02:53

No matter what your father says you must ride your own ride. Take it easy the more you ride the better you get if you do it right and safe. Have fun, thats the best part of this bike. welcome ;)

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by PTRider on 06/24/09 at 22:04:14

62696C6C3637000 wrote:

Pt rider did you ever ride a bicycle with no hands and steer it?

Sure. And I rode a dirt motorcycle using body lean much the way Keith Code describes. Both handle much more quickly and surely using countersteering, although it takes just the lightest touch of countersteering on the bicycle.

How do you tighten a turn once you're in it? Simple...countersteer harder--push the handlebars right to turn right and push right harder to turn right sharper. If the peg is dragging, hang off (butt and body to the inside of the turn), or at least balance your body weight to the inside and reduce the lean of the bike.

Try this in a totally safe place: Sit on the motorcycle's vertical axis, neither leaning in nor out of the turn. Riding 15 or 20 mph, remove your left hand from the bar. Open your right hand so your palm is keeping the throttle steady. Push forward with your right palm and don't move any other part of your body. The bike will make a very smooth, steady right turn. Push harder and it'll turn tighter, and your body remains steady on the now-leaning vertical axis not leaning in more than the bike itself is leaning and not leaning out. Push the bar with your left hand and the the bike will straighten out of the curve. The thing that would improve this turn is to gradually roll-on more throttle, hard to do with the open hand in this demo.

Again on a totally safe piece of pavement, find a spot on the pavement ahead of you and swerve around it then straighten out by leaning the bike. Do it again by pushing hard on one bar then hard on the other bar. There is a big difference.

By practicing this 3000 or more times on safe spots while riding it becomes automatic. There is no need to think of how to do it; it becomes as automatic as shifting your balance from one foot to the other when walking.

If a gust of wind from the left pushes your and your bike to the right, what do you do? If you turn the bars left you may highside. Leaning won't help. If you push the left bar forward (for a gust from the left) you'll straighten up and get back to your original direction.

Title: Re: Brand new rider
Post by Ramonesfiend on 06/30/09 at 18:27:52

I got my license now, took the motorcycle safety course, and have a little over 200miles under my belt and all I can say is for being a "small" bike this thing can hang with most 2000 and older v8 cars off the line which helps where I live (Carlisle, PA) found this out when going to work after the gm nationals ended and all the cars were on the carlisle pike.