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Message started by serenity3743 on 06/15/09 at 05:32:40

Title: Too much visibility?
Post by serenity3743 on 06/15/09 at 05:32:40

I was driving in my car yesterday on an all-day trip and encountered a guy on a Kawasaki sport bike. His bike was fluorescent lime green. And he had gone shopping and bought the matching full-face helmet and an even brighter lime green head-to-toe riding suit. We passed each other back and forth a few times. And it occurred to me as I watched him up ahead: If he applied his brake for a sudden stop, would I see his rear brake light in that vast expanse of fluorescent green in plenty of time to miss hitting him? My answer was: I don't think so.

So, my thought is, we should be reasonably visible with some contrasting colors and then be sure that we watch out for our own space and that of everyone else around us. But you really can go too far with trying to be "visible."

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by serowbot on 06/15/09 at 06:14:32

I don't know if I buy the theory, but I sure don't want to walk around WallyMart in that kind of get-up...

On the other hand,...I do think our eyes are cued to see what they expect to see, and jeans and a t-shirt are more identifiable to us as a person, than lime green spacesuits...
Maybe you do have something..... :-?

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by SavageDanny on 06/15/09 at 06:57:26

Saw one similar last year but all orange. Also a sport bike. What concerned me was that is was so distracting. Made it hard to keep my attention on anything else.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by PhilM on 06/15/09 at 07:25:43

I've noticed the same thing only last week. I was in the car a very fluorescent bike was in front, I didn't immediately notice the brake light come on among all the dazzle of the back end. I think good advice is if you are going for bright colors then use the brightest lights you can, to give you back the "contrast".

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Rocco on 06/15/09 at 07:29:36

i see bright color sport bikes all the time, and they cut people off and do what they want.

just cuz you're in highlighter yellow doesn't mean u don't have to watch out for everyone else!!

my friend said the best way not to get hurt, is make sure you don't ! ! ! lol

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by PTRider on 06/15/09 at 09:03:38

No such thing as too much conspicuity (able to be seen by others), but there might be the wrong type. I dislike looking at a modulated headlight so I don't look at it long enough to be able to judge the distance and closing rate.

As said above, the very conspicuous bikes need very bright signal and stop lights so the rest of us can see those changes when the lights come on.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Pabst 2006 on 06/15/09 at 18:31:36

Speaking of headlights, I was on a 450-mile round trip of the Adirondacks a week ago and encountered numerous swarms of sport bikes and cruisers traveling in groups. Many of the sport biker groups all had their high beams on, and judging from the intensity of the beams, weren't sporting stock headlights either.

It's no problem when one guy wants to be safe and flips his hi-beam on for the day, but when you get 19 of your buddies to join you..... wow. what a nuisance.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Southpaw on 06/15/09 at 22:41:08

I think any edge you can get in being noticed is a plus. My confort zone when I'm off the bike stays in pretty conventional gear but on the road, the cagers are too distracted these days. I still recall being stuck in stand still traffic on a two lane hwy with about 2-3 car lengths between me and the suv in front of me when the driver decided she couldn't wait any longer and tried to back over me turning around. SUV, tinted back glass, radio on and cell phone stuck to her ear, and when she realized her mistake rolled her power window down to "chastise" me that she "didn't see me for chissake". Horn, loud pipes, headlight (admittedly too low to be seen from the SUV's backglass) and at the time white helmet all for naught. In the end, position to be seen in the driver side mirror is all that saved me. You do what you can and drive like you're invisible!

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by PhilM on 06/16/09 at 02:55:43

1A263C3D2139283E490 wrote:

You do what you can and drive like you're invisible!

My bike instructor told me (35 years ago!) something like this..

"have faith in your ability, its ok to think you are the best rider in the world, as long as you assume everyone else is an abysmal driver, with the occasional homicidal maniac thrown in, and who for no apparent reason will sometimes stop suddenly right in front of you or even drive straight at you. Oncoming traffic may even veer across the road to try and hit you."

It stuck, and I still keep an eye out for the oncoming veerers :-/

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by serenity3743 on 06/16/09 at 05:14:35

Somebody said, "Remember: You're naked and invisibile." That's probably a good mindset to have.

My oldest and best friend Dan is always reminding me to be very careful if I must ride a motorcycle. He said another friend of his is a rider and believes that when coming to an intersection he should (and does) flash his headlight from dim to bright back and forth to increase his visibility. I told Dan I think I'll spend my time and attention on myself, my space, and the space of those around me, instead of flicking a switch up and down hoping I don't get creamed!

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 06/16/09 at 06:20:50

I'm starting to believe audibility is as or more important than visibility. People will look right through something they should see, but they can hear a loud noise no matter where they are looking. I NEVER have tailgaters since I switched my exhaust, either. That gives them plenty of time to see my lights before they are danger close.

On the other hand, weaving back and forth in your lane will draw attention pretty well. Who cares if they think you are an idiot, as long as they know you are there?

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by verslagen1 on 06/16/09 at 07:44:28

A louder exhaust adds another sense into the warning zone. The exhaust should be just louder enough to interupt the cell phone conversation of the cage next to you.

How much room do you give a student driver? Ride like that and you'll have plenty of room. Ride like a chippy and get nothing.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by alcoa on 06/17/09 at 03:37:21

I do not think you can be too safe out there.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by drharveys on 06/17/09 at 05:15:18

High-viz jacket or vest -- good!

Cagers don't orient to bikes, but when they see a viz vest, they think "Highway worker -- I'm not supposed to hit those."

Still, I'd never thought of the problem of seeing the tail lights with an all over day-glo suit and bike!

I guess I'll be keeping my black riding pants after all.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by John_D on 06/17/09 at 05:47:20

Particularly for night riding, I always try to have a couple pieces of gear with reflective parts on them.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by photojoe on 06/17/09 at 07:56:09

677463627D7076747F20110 wrote:

Not to hijack the thread with a loud pipes debate, but I agree with V on this one. I'm living it every day with the Trapp, and I watch how drivers react when I'm approaching, especially on 2 or 3 lane roads, when people tend to jump lanes. There are blind spots in cars and trucks. So, they can be blind but they still have ears. Well, if they're not listening to music that's louder than my Trapp.

It does get their attention. Hey, it works for me when I'm driving my car and I hear loud pipes. I know that there's a bike approaching.

And what's with the new vehicle headlights? Did they get brighter the last few years? There are many times when I'm riding at night and a car is approaching, I can't see a thing until they pass, especially through unlit farmland roads. I'll hit the light switch and there's pretty much no response, so I'm guessing that their headlights are stock.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by ero4444 on 06/17/09 at 09:24:58

I don't use other people's brake lights to see when I have to slow down in a car or a bike - that is unreliable.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by serenity3743 on 06/18/09 at 05:23:08

Yes, but sometimes that's the first warning that you get, and your reaction time to the brake light is delayed if you don't see it amongst other bright colors.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by o0MOTORHEAD0o on 06/25/09 at 17:54:46

the key is to ride/drive proactivley not reactively ::)

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Jay on 06/25/09 at 20:47:33

"have faith in your ability, its ok to think you are the best rider in the world, as long as you assume everyone else is an abysmal driver, with the occasional homicidal maniac thrown in, and who for no apparent reason will sometimes stop suddenly right in front of you or even drive straight at you. Oncoming traffic may even veer across the road to try and hit you."

PhilM, I love that. Gotta work on commiting that to memory.
I too have seen the dayglow paint jobs, and yes I think it is too distracting. Reading this thread, I stopped to think whether I would notice a brake light, or a slowdown for that matter; and if I'm honest, I might not be paying enough attention to that, over the loud paint job. Could be something to the theory of too much visibility.
Good thread. It's upped my consciousness quotient about how I look at the day glow squids out there. I'll work on noticing riding behavior, and try to tune out some of the visual.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by PTRider on 06/26/09 at 14:29:46

647C7B607B7E7B140 wrote:

And what's with the new vehicle headlights? Did they get brighter the last few years? There are many times when I'm riding at night and a car is approaching, I can't see a thing until they pass, especially through unlit farmland roads. I'll hit the light switch and there's pretty much no response, so I'm guessing that their headlights are stock.

The bluer the headlights, the less our eyes contract from the added light. That makes you (and me and the rest of us) see more glare, plus a longer time for our eyes to re-adjust to normal night lighting. In addition, the bluer the lights, the more glare bounces back to the original driver's eyes...double trouble.

Title: Re: Too much visibility?
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 06/26/09 at 15:00:07

05021D4E0 wrote:

[quote author=647C7B607B7E7B140 link=1245069160/15#15 date=1245250569]And what's with the new vehicle headlights? Did they get brighter the last few years? There are many times when I'm riding at night and a car is approaching, I can't see a thing until they pass, especially through unlit farmland roads. I'll hit the light switch and there's pretty much no response, so I'm guessing that their headlights are stock.