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Message started by diamond jim on 05/31/09 at 18:31:04

Title: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 05/31/09 at 18:31:04

Just wondering what a LS650 with Lancer's performance cam and carb setup would show on a dyno. That would likely be the max performance capable with the thumper engine short of boring over, head job, etc.

Also, any stock LS650 dyno results published anywhere?

Maybe we can get a general idea of what power characteristics differenct mods make with this bike. The dyno will also help fine tune the carb to our bikes with each mod. This has peaked my interest since the dyno exhaust analyzer showed my pilot jet was surprisingly rich.

I'll post my dyno results when I finish it next week. Gotta get the jets in the mail first.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/01/09 at 15:20:05

So no info out there or interest in dyno results for mods?

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by Texas-1-lunger on 06/01/09 at 17:23:09

Your local dealership has a DYno on there bike nights I could give it a shot but mines not stock. And its $25. that doent bother me I was going to wait til me bobber is done and dyno it, with the bore and stroke done.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by odvelasc on 06/01/09 at 17:45:47

The harley dealership around the corner has a dyno. If its not too much I might go waste more money lol.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by Moofed on 06/01/09 at 19:58:34

I try not to be that guy, but this link was Google's first result for "dyno site:suzukisavage.com". If you didn't know the site: trick then I forgive you. :)

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1185590369

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/01/09 at 20:19:05

Cool beans.

From member Pgman:
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/dyno1.jpg

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/01/09 at 20:41:14

This is reportedly a stock bike before (stock) and after (supertrapp). Possibly the idle mixture screw mod ahd been done. Apparently the carb is otherwise stock.

http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/ls650exh.html

http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/pix/bef_aft.jpg

Same graph but with addition of another LS650 with Jardine slip on.
http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/pix/me_luke.jpg

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by odvelasc on 06/02/09 at 04:17:06

7456565F5C5D390 wrote:

Well you are that guy. Especially since Jim was speaking of the cam mod and not stock ;D Just teasing about you being that guy. I am curious to see what I am packing with the Vm carb, UFO and Dial a Jet.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/02/09 at 05:05:14

I'd like to know too. For the graphs above, is there a way use the hp and speed to deduct torque so I could plot the torque curve?

Edit: I found this: http://www.dragtimes.com/horsepower-torque-calculator-conversion.php?hp=30&rpm=5000&submitButtonName=Calculate+Torque

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/03/09 at 05:21:03

Here's a good read on intake and exhaust performance.

http://www.bigcitythunder.com/pages/understanding_exhaust.pdf

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by Charon on 06/03/09 at 06:19:07

The horsepower - torque conversion is pretty easy, given RPM.

Horsepower = torque * (rpm/5252)

Torque = horsepower * (5252/rpm)

At 5252 RPM the horsepower and torque numbers are equal.

Unfortunately, the curves shown above are in MPH instead of RPM. That probably means they didn't make a tach connection. It is customary to run Dynojet curves in 4th gear, so you can attempt to look up standard gearing and make the conversion, if you want. The Dynojet actually measures rear wheel torque and computes horsepower. It is common for the drive train (belt, transmission) to absorb 10% - 15% of the power, so the engine power would be that much greater than rear wheel power.

I rather wonder why the "stock" curve cuts off sooner than the "Supertrapp" curve. Looks to me like the "stock" curve may have still been climbing. The very sharp drop at the top looks to me like a throttle chop, although it could have been a rev limiter. If it's the rev limiter, why is it different between the curves?

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/08/09 at 15:32:46

624940534E4F210 wrote:

I rather wonder why the "stock" curve cuts off sooner than the "Supertrapp" curve. Looks to me like the "stock" curve may have still been climbing. The very sharp drop at the top looks to me like a throttle chop, although it could have been a rev limiter. If it's the rev limiter, why is it different between the curves?

Don't think it was a rev limiter. My guess is that the stock exhaust reached it's max flow, the operator felt the effects, saw that the bike reached it's limit and let off the throttle. I've hit that limit before when experimenting with different baffles and to a lesser extent different intakes. BTW, now I know for sure what 6K+ rpms on this motor sounds like. I can say with certainty that I've never hit 6500 rpms with my motor. Truly sounds like she's gonna blow up!

Here's mine:

http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/dynorunS40dj.jpg

Max HP: 33.19
Max Torque: 36.40 ft lbs
Temp: 87 F

Setup:
55 pilot (no bleed holes)
1 washer
155 main

A stock bike seems to dyno about 28-29HP. The LS650 with Sportster muffler and 1/2 spacer ran 29.8 HP. The Supertrapp guy said peak 28 with stock muffler then his Supertrapp tested similar to my bike HP wise with 32-33 (no torque curve or numbers though) with air temperature of 22 degrees cooler than my run today. Don't know if that makes a bit of difference though.

http://www.thumperpage.com/articles/ls650exh.html

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by PTRider on 06/08/09 at 21:28:01

Cooler air is denser so it gets more oxygen into the engine. This will result in more power.

Don't worry about the torque number. Horsepower at the rpms actually running is all that matters. Forget all the shadetree mechanic blather about torque just like we should forget about peak horsepower except for the few times we're actually running at peak.

The dyno test is at full throttle, which is the range the main jet makes the big difference, so does the needle jet spacer make much difference?

It looks like the H-D muffler doesn't make much difference except in sound levels, or does it?...Does the stock muffler get congested at full throttle high rpms?

What is the best combination for mid-range throttle where we're at when passing or other everyday situations? I'll trade peak power for mid-range power any time.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by SV og LS on 06/09/09 at 00:57:32

404D45494B4A404E4D49240 wrote:

The Supertrapp tested similar to my bike HP wise with 32-33 (no torque curve or numbers though) with air temperature of 22 degrees cooler than my run today. Don't know if that makes a bit of difference though.

It makes no difference in this case. DJ's CF (Correction Factor) takes into account humidity, air temperature and barometric pressure and adds a factor to actual measurements to give you 'corrected' data.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by Wolf on 06/09/09 at 02:38:09

Soooo, I be the Raask guinni pig (soon)...

(rebuilt engine with many of the bells & whistles)

Wolf :D

Lancer cam and soon nitrided cam chain
Lancer recommended Mikuni 38mm roundslide carb w/ UFO and dial-a-jet
(need to order throttle cable - may rejet stock carb until this arrives)
Verslavy cam chain tensioner
K&N 1250 cone
Bore tech bore, hone and carbon treatment with o/s Suzuki piston kit
Raask 60mm Dragpipe
and good ole Savage Eddies 5 speed ;)

(just awaiting the cam chain, throttle cable and Bore tech procedure)

ahhh, nothing has been done to the Ls650 look; well, the airbox is gone! :-X

Gotta get it rebuilt and run first ::)

... and then "bob it" 8-)

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/09/09 at 04:44:16

We did the fuel circuit checks first then the full throttle in 4th check. On my dyno run it showed a mix that stayed between about 13.5 across all the circuits. Rod said that was perfect because it's just a tad on the rich side. He said he likes to keep it between 12 and 14.5. With mine he said that if I ride in a different environment that normally leans out the fuel then it may lean the mix to 14-14.5 and in an environment that makes it rich maybe 13-12.5.

So why do some dynos show torque/HP @ rpm and some show HP @ speed? Do the HP @ speed dyno runs also do the fuel circuit analysis? Seems to me the portable ones at done at bike nights and shows only do the HP @ speed.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by SV og LS on 06/09/09 at 05:25:26

2D20282426272D232024490 wrote:

If it was a full throttle run, it was lean. It should be around 12:1 to 13:1, maybe 12.5:1 for best power. If it was a part throttle check, it may be somewhat rich, on smaller throttle openings it could be progressively more lean to over 15:1 on a slow steady cruise for best efficiency. On a 10% throttle in reality it doesn't matter if the engine makes 10.76 hp or 11.29 hp but leaner setting may give you 20% better fuel economy and that's what I would choose.

2D20282426272D232024490 wrote:

So why do some dynos show torque/HP @ rpm and some show HP @ speed? Do the HP @ speed dyno runs also do the fuel circuit analysis? Seems to me the portable ones at done at bike nights and shows only do the HP @ speed.

All dynos these days should be able to show torque to rpm or torque to road speed, you just tell the operator which graph you want to be printed. If operator doesn't bother to connect rpm pickup you only get torque to road speed.
Some dyno shops may not have A/F ratio sensors or software that could support them.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/09/09 at 05:36:45

It did vary some. I pretty sure it never went over 14 or under 12. We spent more time talking about the idle circuit because that was too rich the first time and why we stopped the first run two weeks ago. I don't have a print out of the fuel ratios. Maybe he was talking more about the idle circuit while I was thinking more about all circuits. Don't quite remember. It's funny though- we have all afternoon, shop is empty, he digs the single, wants to see what it can do, I'm there with jets and tools in hand ready to fine tune... we do the runs and he seemed surprised at the result.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by SV og LS on 06/09/09 at 14:46:56

5C51595557565C525155380 wrote:

It did vary some. I pretty sure it never went over 14 or under 12.

At least it's reasonable close, you can do some fine tuning if you want and you've a solid base setting you can always return to.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/09/09 at 15:47:00

I checked the mixture screw today to see where he turned it when he tuned it. Two turns out. It's the smoothest idle my bike has ever had. But with that I still get a little bit of between gears and decel popping that was better controlled with the 55 w/bleed holes. I turned it to 2.5 and that maybe helped the popping a bit but noticed it started idling rougher and had to turn the idle up a 1/4 turn for more air.

Which do you think is better for sitting at a lot of stoplights in 90 degree weather?

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by serowbot on 06/09/09 at 16:38:25

I'd go with a little higher idle speed to increase oil circulation in the heat.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by SV og LS on 06/10/09 at 01:27:13

565B535F5D5C56585B5F320 wrote:

It's the smoothest idle my bike has ever had. But with that I still get a little bit of between gears and decel popping that was better controlled with the 55 w/bleed holes. I turned it to 2.5 and that maybe helped the popping a bit but noticed it started idling rougher and had to turn the idle up a 1/4 turn for more air.

Which do you think is better for sitting at a lot of stoplights in 90 degree weather?

In a nutshell, there are two options:
- idle smoother than ever
- idle rougher
I would have no trouble choosing the first one. The richer idle won't get any better sitting at stoplights and it doesn't cool down the engine which will be hot anyway. Plus the whole point of dynoing the engine was to get the jetting sorted and the engine running in a most efficient way.

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by LANCER on 06/10/09 at 04:09:13

1A1F262E051A490 wrote:

[quote author=565B535F5D5C56585B5F320 link=1243819864/15#19 date=1244587620]It's the smoothest idle my bike has ever had. But with that I still get a little bit of between gears and decel popping that was better controlled with the 55 w/bleed holes. I turned it to 2.5 and that maybe helped the popping a bit but noticed it started idling rougher and had to turn the idle up a 1/4 turn for more air.

Which do you think is better for sitting at a lot of stoplights in 90 degree weather?

Title: Re: dyno results for performance mods
Post by diamond jim on 06/10/09 at 07:17:14

I'll keep it at 2.