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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Visually Inspecting Valve Operation /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1243343061 Message started by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 06:04:21 |
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Title: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 06:04:21 What is the best way to visually inspect/confirm that each valve is moving up and down as it should? or... Is it better to pull the head, remove the valves and inspect them that way? I was thinking of just pulling the valve covers, removing the spark plug and then turning the engine over by hand. Then watch to see if each valve moves correctly. Is this an acceptable way to check valve operation? It is a 1988 with no engine modifications and ~25000 miles on it. Was not treated well be some previous owners. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 06:54:50 you should be able to do that through the valve adjustment "windows" on the headcover... a dial indicator with a magnetic base would probably allow an accurate measurement of valve lift the same way.. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by verslagen1 on 05/26/09 at 09:00:59 What is it that you're suspecting Danny? Have you looked at your camchain lately. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 09:30:54 She quit starting. Been checking everything I can think of but I suspect it is actually going to lead back to the igniter. I have already replaced a couple of fried electrical components. My fault, went to charge a cheap battery that was low on fluid, positive side of a charger slipped from my hand and hit frame, big sparks! Been nothing but trouble since. Have also replaced battery with a sealed one. How does that relate to valves? My step-father-in-law insists that it jumped time or the valves are not adjusted correctly or working. I told him no way that's true because I rebuilt the top half this last winter and triple checked everything as it went back together. Well I tore into it last night and everything looks fine. Cam chain and tensioner are good. Valve adjustment was spot on. Timing appears to be set correctly. I just want to be able to confirm the valves are moving. I suspect they are fine and that I have torn back into the engine for nothing. I am trying to avoid removing the head again if at all possible. I even took apart the starter and tested it and it is fine too. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by verslagen1 on 05/26/09 at 10:06:50 Great, glad this didn't lead anywhere. Bad news if it's the CDI. Hope you can find one cheap. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 10:10:29 73415641474564414E4E59200 wrote:
here's an old school valve timing test... it requires one to procure a very high tech diagnostic tool, a paper matchbook... one opens the book, and holds the cover over the end of the tailpipe while cranking, just angling the end away from the pipe... if the cover just flaps away from the pipe, then returns to its starting position, the valve timing is at least close... if it sucks back toward the outlet of the pipe, it shows a vacuum is forming in the exhaust, which is a sure indication of a slipped, skipped, or other wise malfunctioning valve timing set-up... a folded business card works well for non smokers...lol |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 10:28:44 Doesn't the old school test require the ability to start the engine? I think I will try my idea of just turning the engine over by hand and watch the valves closely to see if they are all moving. If they are I will put it all back together and start shopping for a new CDI. I was sure that's what is was anyway. My wife and her step dad convinced me to try looking at the timing and the valves so I did. As I expected I have not found anything mechanically wrong. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 11:29:05 56647364626041646B6B7C050 wrote:
engine just has to crank, doesnt have to start... actually more accurate on crank, as some engines get an exhaust "vac eye" momentarily while running(a pop back twice a minute or so)... the light show and replacement of other parts shows you pretty much knew the problem... but, peace in the family is worth an extra hour of work... |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 11:36:51 303C2F2E353C31316C6E5D0 wrote:
Yes it is. Especially when step-father-in-law gave this bike to me for free. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 11:39:53 744651464042634649495E270 wrote:
Yes it is. Especially when step-father-in-law gave this bike to me for free. [/quote] 3 hours then...lol did you check for spark while you had the plug out? |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 11:54:08 Checked for spark. It was week. Checked Ignition coil. Only 1 Ohms between connections when it should have been 4-7 Ohms. Replaced it. Tested starter relay. It failed too. Replaced it. Going to do some continuity checks on some of the wiring tonight as well as my valve test. I really think it's the CDI. Seems a little strange to me that one light show fried so much. I can understand frying the CDI but the other stuff? Oh well, it has been a learning experience. Wish I knew someone in KC with a Savage. We could swap CDI's for a minute to see if it would start. Then I could be 100% certain of the problem before laying out a bunch of money for a new one. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 13:52:50 6F5D4A5D5B59785D5252453C0 wrote:
21 year old bike, bro, your "light show" might have just been the finale... it seems to have fried all the coil assemblies... maybe the crank pick-up? that's a coil too.... |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by Charon on 05/26/09 at 14:09:39 Before I bought an ignition box, I think I'd see if a local dealership had any way to test the one I already had. Make sure your battery is charged, as a weak battery can cause a weak spark. You can always use a set of jumper cables (carefully, to avoid spitzensparken) and the battery from your car, truck, or trolling motor. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 19:32:03 65697A7B60696464393B080 wrote:
21 year old bike, bro, your "light show" might have just been the finale... it seems to have fried all the coil assemblies... maybe the crank pick-up? that's a coil too.... [/quote] Pick up tested within specifications. Did my valve test earlier this evening too. Everything moved liked it should. Many continuity tests on wiring found no failures either. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/26/09 at 19:38:18 032821322F2E400 wrote:
All Suzuki dealers in area told me they didn't have the gear to test it. All they could do was the swap test but would have to order the part. One dealer even called my bike a dinosaur. I reminded him they still sold it only with a new name. Battery is charged. Are you saying use jumpers in addition to the charged battery? A sparky event was what caused my troubles. I have extreme reservations about using jumpers. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by Charon on 05/26/09 at 20:27:25 From your description, you were trying to charge the battery. You slipped with the positive terminal of the charger, and got sparks. Usually, the ignition switch would have been OFF. I can't see any way that would have affected the ignitor box, but of course cannot rule it out, since there are live connections elsewhere on the bike. I would connect a voltmeter to the battery and watch when I tried a start (be aware digital meters may not respond as quickly as the old analog ones). If the battery voltage drops under about 10 volts when the starter is trying to turn the engine, you found your problem. That's why I suggested a jumper battery, such as a car battery, with much higher amp capacity than the small battery on the bike. Just having a NEW battery doesn't mean you have a GOOD battery. I believe the older bikes (pre S40 label) left the headlight ON when starting, so the demand on the battery is higher. Suzuki changed the circuitry on the S40 so the headlight turns OFF during a start, which makes me suspect there might have been occasional problems with the older ones. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 21:02:01 here's a variation of Charon's idea, check the available voltage at the box, and the coil... the iggy system on this bike really reminds me of a ford tfi, right up to the "start" signal wire to the iggy box... while cranking, id want to see at least 11 volts to both the black(start signal), and orange/white(ignition hot) wires going into your iggy box, at the box side connector... further, i'd want to see no less than 1.5 volts less than is available at the batt terminals, while cranking.... you can get harness continuity, but still have resistance that causes voltage drop(loose pin socket kind of thing).... if that black wire doesnt give an acceptable signal, the box wont switch to "start retard" on the advance.... if the orange/white doesnt provide enough voltage, the box wont power up.... that you got any spark at all would be an indicator the iggy is functioning.... id also check the voltage at the orange/white coil wire connector, while cranking, same desired results(at least 11, no lower than 1.5 below bat)id also run a resistance on the black/yellow that runs from the coil to the box, and id want to see less than 1.5 ohms resistance, preferably a very minor decimal.... im willing to bet either you have a bad spade connector on the coil, or bad connections causing a voltage drop..... my real bet is that black wire, ill bet it isnt giving a signal.... |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by verslagen1 on 05/26/09 at 23:08:55 Tap on the relays, while the light show may have fried the CDI, it may have only flashed the points together on the relays. A wrap or two may free them up. No gangsta rap please. |
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Title: Re: Visually Inspecting Valve Operation Post by SavageDanny on 05/27/09 at 04:04:25 Charon, marshall, verslagen, thanks for all of the advice. I will try some of that later this evening and see what happens. Thanks again. |
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