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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1242745779 Message started by dasch on 05/19/09 at 08:09:39 |
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Title: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/19/09 at 08:09:39 50 idle, 150 main, needle one slot up (yes, I have the one with recesses), K&N cone, open HD exhaust. Idle mix perfect, 2.5 turns out, acceleration great and smooth through entire range. The problem is that after a hard (1/2-WOT) acceleration it will not ide right for 2 seconds. Eventually dies sometimes. Really makes me nervous on stop lights. I tested today while standing still; if I blip the throttle hard, and then quickly release it - it will rev up, than down and give out a puff of black smoke when it reaches idle speed! idle will drop to 2 beats/second, and then recover. If I hold it on WOT a bit longer - it will die when reaches idle. For some reason it gets RICH after WOT. Why? How do I fix it? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by serowbot on 05/19/09 at 08:18:23 possibly a sticky needle jet slide?... or,... is your idle speed set too low?... |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/19/09 at 09:57:05 Idle around 1300. It acts as though you poured a small shot of gas in the carb while idling. Y'know, it goes thump thump thump thump.....thump...........thummmmp............thump....thump, thump, thump. This is as technical I can get with explaining it :D |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 05/19/09 at 18:34:03 Are you sure that middle one is a thump, and not a thud? A thud indicates a faulty ribbensnort modulator. 2 1/2 turns on the 50 idle would have gas running out of my muffler. I'm at 3000 feet, and as it is getting warmer, I'm down to about 1 1/16 turns and tightening up every day. I have a devil of a time with that idle jet. 47.5 is too small. 50 is too big. I need a 48.375, I think. :) |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by LANCER on 05/19/09 at 20:18:06 Play with your pilot adjusting screw, take it back down to 1.5 turns out. Basically, go down as low as you can before the backfiring starts up in earnest. Reports back with what it does. Was it working properly for you before ? Has it started messing up just lately ? Other changes to the engine/carb or outside stimulas affecting it some way ? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/20/09 at 06:53:16 5F495E435B4E43582C0 wrote:
I'll sure second this check - if the slide is dirty or sticky in anyway it will hang going back down and cause a very rich situation when you let off the throttle |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/20/09 at 07:28:49 Sandy: Ribennsnort modulator is clean. Replaced last year :-) LAncer: Tried pilot screw. Has no effect to the problem. It does effect the idle/backfiring, but the problem is still there. It started a little after I raised the needle one notch. But I had to raise to eliminate slight surging in midrange. Reel/Lancer. I will check on sticky slide today. It makes sense to me. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/20/09 at 07:35:16 No oil on the slide - nothing - just clean and the slide bore |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/20/09 at 09:12:25 Understood. I just prepared this ABRO silicone spray, but I will try without. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/20/09 at 09:14:08 ribbensnort modulator... that's a good one. Glad I replaced it. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/20/09 at 09:34:22 Was having a bad time with the '95 - cleaned the slide with contact spray - might need a new slide spring |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/20/09 at 10:03:06 I haven't done anything yet, but I remember the slide has a worn area, as though it scrapes that part regularly during movement. How 'bout I just stick a 32/32 dual Weber carb on the darn thing and go from there?? :-) I have one, came off of a 750cc Fiat. 32 horses stock, 40 and some with the carb. What do you all think? Regression: I will clean the slide and post more. Thanks all for help. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by marshall13 on 05/20/09 at 10:10:49 5F5A4858533B0 wrote:
if there's a scuff on the slide, that's probably your culprit... check the bore it rides in... casting flash? scratch? build up of funk? if the defect is above the surface(flash, funk, etc) you can carefully remove it(funk, seafoam and lint free rag... flash, very fine sandpaper(1200 grit or so)... if its a gouge or scratch that is below the bore surface, time for a new carb body.... is the tab on the top of the slide aligned correctly? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by BurnPgh on 05/20/09 at 14:58:19 Mine SORT of does the same thing. With no spacer and a quick decel it would stall out especially when cold. After I added a washer it got better. Still does it on occasion but i lost my jet set from lancer and every #4 washer ive found has too large an OD so until i get a new one..... If you've moved the needle up you've leaned the midrange while the rest of your set up is richer than stock. Try lowering the needle back or changing to a 47.5 pliot. PS - clenaing the slide is a good idea but I wouldnt worry too awful much about the worn area. Mine's a '95 and has the same thing. Works flawlessly. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/20/09 at 15:59:23 The black coating is sacrificial - it’s the grime that forms causes some issue – in it’s worse case a little black ring will form in the bore at the bottom of the slide travel – if you have more than 1 slot in the needle – what year is the carb? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/20/09 at 17:52:59 ...well, it was raining here so I didn't test it. The slide and slide bore had some fine powdery deposits and it wasn't moving at all that smooth. I cleaned it all, we will see tomorrow. Yes, the tab was aligned before. The carb is '95, with 3 slots on the needle. The stock idle was 47.5 and stock main was 130 (???). This is an European piece, bought in Germany. Moving the needle up on those richens the mixture. No need for washer mod. Funny thing is that I can't feel the spring resistance at all... :-? It's there, all right... |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by diamond jim on 05/20/09 at 18:51:32 The large diaphram spring is in place? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/21/09 at 05:54:28 :-) Yeah, it's there. It just provides very little resistance when you stick your finger in the intake and push the slide upwards. I could swear it's too little resistance. Maybe I'm being subjective now. Anyways, I tested it today after yesterday's cleaning. It worked. It still chokes a bit, but it didn't die on me today yet. I feel I should stretch the spring a bit. Any thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/21/09 at 09:48:37 go for it - I did on a couple - a bit too much on one - ended up with a replacement - so easy does it or you'll have a rather effective governor |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/21/09 at 10:20:37 :-) You know how long is the new one? That may help me. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by diamond jim on 05/21/09 at 11:15:17 If the diaphram spring ends don't look like either has been trimmed or messed with, then it should be good to go. I can't see it wearing out. |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/21/09 at 11:31:07 6C697B6B60080 wrote:
I'll measure a new one hanging under it's on weight - not sure if that would help or not - I have no way to measure the pressure it creates - heck I can send you a NIB one if you want to try it - tis a spare |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/21/09 at 12:22:44 Mine looks just as good as new. Reel, I would rather have you lay it straight on a flat glass surface and measure it, please. Thank you for the offer, but I live in Bosnia, Europe. Shipping will be more than it's worth. But thank you again. Let's measure it laying flat and straight and I will compare. Springs do lose tension over years, exposed to heat, vibrations and whatnot. I remember on my previous Honda, slide would come back down with a happy audible click when you pushed them upwards and release. On this one it kinda slides down. Not slowly, but... |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by Reelthing on 05/22/09 at 00:03:53 Looks to be just a shade short of 18cm with each coil 4mm http://savageriders.com/reelthing/pics/savage/P1040340.JPG |
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Title: Re: Rich and dies on hard accel/deccel Post by dasch on 05/22/09 at 01:58:23 Perfect. Thanks a bunch. I'll measure and strecth to match! Hey - it rymes! |
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