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Message started by Staplebox on 05/15/09 at 21:49:28

Title: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Staplebox on 05/15/09 at 21:49:28

So I initially took the car to work today cause it looked like rain again. It cleared up later so I stopped home to switch to the Savage on my way to a conference. Left the conference to go to HQ for a meeting, which is in rural Quaker Hill CT. Nice twisty road, that two semi's could not pass on, to get there. There was a car about 50-75 yards ahead of me that I left out that far. I slowed down before the last corner before the campus and accelerated into the sharp rh turn. Halfway through the turn I saw a kid on the left side of the road, walking toward me. Just before I came out of the turn I saw the car that was ahead of me stopped dead in the road- no stop sign on that road for 5 more miles. I was doing about 30 give or take. Fool in front of me, trees and rocks to the right, oncoming car / people to the left. Hit the brakes, started to slide and lowside through the turn and into the oncoming car (a$$ to the left) - somehow managed to bring the back around to the center - then it kept on going to the right side and caught.

Of course I have heard of the highside, and seen it on TV, but I'll be darned if I didn't fly off that bike like superman. I distinctly remember looking at the car in front of me, flying at it head first. I landed on my right shoulder in a roll in the middle of my lane, log rolled a few times and (I swear) popped up on my feet, like a good slide into second, looking back at the bike. I thought it was going to land on me but it was about 20 feet back.

Turns out the kid was a resident of my agency's (we have troubled kids in residential care) who was running away. The car in front of me was a secretary who recognized the kid and the staff following her, and had stopped to talk. I also managed to land in full view of former coworkers and kids at a shelter that is also on our grounds. They didn't realize it was me until I took off my helmet. Then they appropriately laughed at me and helped move the bike. I was also wearing a $100 mesh jacket that i just bought a few months ago - $ well spent.

No scratches on my helmet, lots of marks on the right elbow of the jacket. No scrapes on my leather shoes, not a mark on my jeans. The bike lost the right footpeg-sheared off, rear turn signal broke and hanging, right mirror bent upside down -under the grip ( I think it landed on that mirror), bent rear brake pedal, scrape the size of a nickel on the slash of my Hard Krome, torn back rest, scraped chrome on rh grip, cylinder cover took a beating but didn't leak.

I went to my meeting with a sore wrist and knee. Drove the bike about 15 miles home- resting my foot on the gear box.

The worst part is I broke a bone in my left wrist - the ER said it'll take 6-8 weeks in a cast. I'll be lucky to ride again in July - we don't have a long biking season here. :( I also have a big bruise on my left knee but it works fine.

I've seen them around here before but - if anyone could recommend some nice bolt up after market rear turn signals- its a good time to change. I need to take a closer look at the footpeg - Theres not much left- it may need some welding. Mirror and some bending should be easy.

Lastly - I'm not looking for any sympathy - I am fine and surely could have found a better way to stop - I just wanted to share. I would advocate a helmet (which is optional in CT- I wear one about 75% of the time - will be 100% in the future) and the cheap jacket definitely saved me some road rash.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Jay on 05/15/09 at 21:59:27

Glad you're OK. Life turns on a dime. The margin for error is slim.
Hope the wrist heals rapidly.
ATGATT, it really can make all the difference.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by verslagen1 on 05/15/09 at 22:11:42

+1 on the ok bit, could have been worse.
This is a reminder to us all to practice emergency stops.
And keep an eye out ahead, not just the car a head, but as far as we can see.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by sockmonkeygirl on 05/16/09 at 04:52:08

I wasn't sure what a highsider was, so I looked it up. Glad you are ok.

A highsider or highside is a type of motorcycle accident which is caused by a rear wheel gaining traction when it is not facing in the direction of travel. For a highsider to take place, the rear wheel must first lose traction and drift out of the line travel of the motorcycle. The initial traction loss may be caused by a rear locked wheel due to excessive braking or by applying too much throttle when exiting a corner.

When the slipping rear tire suddenly regains traction it is not moving in the same plane as the rest of the bike. This causes the motorcycle to straighten up so quickly the rider is almost always thrown off, even at low speed.

Highside accidents are typically caused by over-acceleration or braking in corners, but are also a result of locking the rear brake in an emergency stop while traveling straight at high speeds, such as on a highway. Chopper style motorcycles with the front brakes removed are especially prone to highsider accidents.

Avoiding a highsider:
This article contains instructions, advice, or how-to content. The purpose of Wikipedia is to present facts, not to train. Please help improve this article either by rewriting the how-to content or by moving it to Wikiversity or Wikibooks. (November 2008)

When braking, use both front and rear brakes on the motorcycle, and avoid locking the rear brake.

When exiting a corner toward a straight direction of travel, do not apply sudden acceleration inputs until the motorcycle returns to a near upright position. Lower gear selection and sharp acceleration inputs increase the likelihood of a rear tire abruptly losing traction on acceleration. Instead smoothly apply throttle as the bike becomes more upright and traction increases. If a riders experiences a rear tire slide under acceleration the best thing to do is slowly roll-on the throttle. If one reduces throttle while the bike is sliding you may regain traction suddenly resulting in the highsider. Tire warmers can increase tire grip for track days and racing. Riding conservatively until the silica in rubber compound and friction generate heat within the tire can also improve grip. Many highside incidents result from aggressive riding on tires that have not yet achieved a temperature suitable for optimal grip. Many tire manufactures add silica to the rubber compound to generate heat as the tire flexes. Temperatures of 170 °F (77 °C) are common for race ready tires.

Technical explanation:
Forces occurring between the motorcycle and the road (such as accelerating, decelerating and steering) are transmitted by friction occurring in the contact patch. There is a limited amount of force the contact patch can transmit before the tire begins to lose contact and slide.

When going through a curve on a motorcycle, centripetal force is transferred from the road to the motorcycle through the contact patch and is directed at a right angle to the path of travel. Applying too much throttle will increase the stress in the contact patch, because now there is an additional force which also has to be transmitted through the contact patch, this time parallel to the direction of travel. This additional amount of force may cause the tire to slide. It is during this slide that reflex will cause the rider to rapidly shut the throttle and cause the rear tire to lock. This same condition can be caused by applying too much rear brake while cornering.

Once a tire slips in a curve, it will move outwards under the motorcycle and cause the cycle to lay down in the direction the rider is already leaning to counteract the moment applied by the centripetal force and lead to a lowsider.

If the amount of force applied by the brakes or throttle is reduced then it is quite likely that the tire will re-establishing the grip on the road. However, if the tire suddenly regains traction while the motorcycle is moving sideways, this is similar to hitting an obstacle in the road: the tire will stop its sideways movement causing the motorcycle to suddenly jerk into an upright position (and beyond). This movement can easily cause the rider to be thrown off.

The name derives from the side of the motorcycle that the rider will separate from. If forcibly thrown over the bike, the rider is said to have dismounted on the high side.

The highsider has the additional disadvantage of the rider often being catapulted into the air by the sudden jerking motion of the motorbike and the increased possibility of the motorbike sliding behind the rider and threatening to crush him.

Because highsider accidents are so much more deadly than lowside accidents, the Motorcycle Safety Foundation recommends that if a rider locks the rear brake, it should be kept locked until the motorcycle comes to a stop.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by sockmonkeygirl on 05/16/09 at 05:00:54

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAYmnjwYsNM[/media]
motorcycle airbag jacket.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by PerrydaSavage on 05/16/09 at 05:04:38

Glad yer OK dude ... take 'er easy and heal up!

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by JohnBoy on 05/16/09 at 07:23:37

Sorry to hear of your recent "adventure", I'm glad you had minor damage. It is amazing how fast you can dismount in a highside.
The cost of good gear seems pretty steep today, but take it from me, it is way cheaper than a single night in ICU. Like Momma said, "Too tough to die...and too stupid to quit", Best wishes on a speedy recovery.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Ed L. on 05/16/09 at 07:45:36

High sides really s*ck, I did one the second week after I bought my '02. Hit a patch of gravel with the front tire coming up to a stop sign, locked the tire up on the gravel, got out of the gravel with the locked up front tire which grabbed and tossed me off the bike. Landed on my helmet and right arm. Hit so hard that my arm got jambed into my rib cage which cracked four ribs. Like you say, it happened so fast I didn't know I was down till I was looking at the pavement. Glad to hear you had a lid on, mine did it's job and it sounds like your's did also. :)

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Charon on 05/16/09 at 08:12:55

If I were in a position to make it stick, I woiuld REQUIRE that all motorcycles (and other single track vehicles such as scooters and mopeds) be equipped with linked brakes and ABS, so stomping the rear brake pedal would not result in a rear-wheel skid. That is because the trained reaction of drivers in substantially every other sort of vehicle is to stomp the brake pedal. The "stomp the pedal" reaction works well enough in cars and trucks, but is likely to be lethal on a motorcycle. The technology exists to substantially reduce the problem, and it should be REQUIRED.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Duane on 05/16/09 at 09:28:52

Good info, I had never heard of the highsider before. :o

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by JohnBoy on 05/16/09 at 09:31:54

Hey Charon, it's coming! I saw a Chinese, maybe Korean, 250 scooter the other day with ABS. Half the pice of the Japanese scooters and standard ABS!

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by marshall13 on 05/16/09 at 10:13:12

i wouldnt be inclined to rely on mechanical "abs" systems like they have on scooters.... i had a 68 lincoln mark 3 with america's original electro-mechanical (no computer involved) "abs" system.... one day while tooling along the LIE in suffolk, i gently tapped my brakes to give a merging vehicle an opening.... whatever failed in that system resulted in my rears basically locking and unlocking in a completely ramdom, uncontrollable manner.... as i cried for my mommy, that steel behemoth spun, slewed, twisted, watusied,and frooged it's way across 3 lanes of a busy highway, barely being avoided by the other drivers.... after i came to a stop in the median(and scraped my skivvies clean), i took a walk to a payphone.... a pal arrived an hour later with an assortment of hydraulic plugs, tubing, and a qt of brakefluid... about 45 minutes later, that schizoid system was completely disabled.... it had NEVER given any indication of malfunction before that point.... had just 1 of the other drivers been daydreaming, it had the potential to have been a pretty horrible wreck.... any non-computerized abs system can do the same thing....

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/16/09 at 10:19:21

Crap, didnt know how lucky I got. Coupla years ago I had a Guzzi slide out on gravel in a corner & that thing rolled right out. Maybe the turning the front into the slide & not grabbing the brake( Not a conscious decision, just didnt, things were happening way too quick to make decisions, operating purely on reflex/instinct at that point)
I was surprised when it didnt wash out from under me.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Rocco on 05/16/09 at 11:29:46

i did almost the same thing...except was going 40 and went airborne lol

i now wear a jacket 100% as i still have roadrash, and i always wear a helmet

do u guys have cycle gear up there? i bought universal turn signals for 17.99......they have a bunch of shapes, even round ones that look like mini stocks....i went with the arrow heads....

and be happy u rolled, some try and stop themselves and do more damage!!!!

and i'm sure you'll fix her good as new!!

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by PTRider on 05/16/09 at 13:34:26

Staplebox,

Will you make a posting about the lessons to be learned from your wreck? Seriously, we all need to know, or get reminded, just what was done wrong and done right.

Right...protective gear. Helmet, (armored?) jacket, didn't slide into more danger.

Wrong...(probably way too hard on the rear brake), jeans aren't tough enough for many slides, boots needed, (did you wear gloves?), riding too fast for the distance you could see, (attention not on the road every moment?) what else?

More about HighSides (http://www.msgroup.org/Tip.aspx?Num=100&Set=)

Quote:

if your front brakes are applied when your rear-wheel begins to skid, the rear wheel can begin to slow slower than does the front wheel. In such a case the rear wheel will move in the direction of slide faster than does the front wheel - it will 'catch up with' the front wheel. To do so it must skew to one side or the other from the track directly behind the front wheel.

In the real world our roadways are almost always cambered to facilitate the runoff of rain water. A sliding rear wheel usually skews (yaws) in the direction of that camber. Whenever the rear wheel skews from a straight line, because of how the frame and front-end are connected together via your triple-tree (at an angle), the body of the bike must lean in the direction away from the skew. i.e., the bike will attempt to lay 'down' as the first step in a 'lowside'. If ANY skewing has begun then your bike is in exactly the attitude it would be in if a rear-end slide had begun in a curve rather than in a straight line. Release of the rear-brake before skewing has advanced beyond perhaps 10 degrees results in a sharp torque to bike (and rider) as the rear-wheel regains traction and straightens out - usually not enough to throw the rider. But a skew greater than that leads to such a terrifically powerful torque if traction is regained that the rider and motorcycle can easily be thrown into the air - called a 'highside'.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/09 at 13:45:43

1st minor mistake, skiding the rear wheel.
1st big mistake, letting off the rear brake.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by gerald.hughes on 05/16/09 at 14:04:39

Locking up the rear brake is not necessarily a bad thing. Letting off the brake once it is locked up is. In the MSF Advanced rider training, they make you lock up the rear wheel at a moderate speed, and then ride the bike to a stop. Not a single rider in my class went down, though some did complain about the rubber that was wasted in the exercise.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by verslagen1 on 05/16/09 at 14:13:22

And did they complain about the amount of skin saved?

I change tires twice a year. And this is going to be on the list of things to do when I decide to change the tire.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by drharveys on 05/16/09 at 15:06:21

6B786F6E717C7A78732C1D0 wrote:

And did they complain about the amount of skin saved?

I change tires twice a year. And this is going to be on the list of things to do when I decide to change the tire.

Great idea! And a noble exit for tire that carried you for many miles.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Staplebox on 05/16/09 at 15:22:02

I'm don't think I am the best person to teach any lessons. I have been riding streets for less then 6 years but got my first dirt bike about 26 years ago. I feel pretty comfortable without training wheels - but I'm no expert.

The best way to avoid a highside is not to lock up the brakes. As a habit, I don't use much back brake and I don't have any reason to believe I stomped them during this but I couldn't swear that I didn't. The whole thing took a few seconds.

It was a fairly sharp rh turn that also dropped downhill. It was also sandy - which doesn't help traction. I have driven that road hundreds of times and my speed was very reasonable for the turn - except for the car stopped in the middle of it. It's not a turn you can see through. I guess I could have been going slower but then I'd be driving everywhere 10 mph under the limit and that doesn't sound very fun. The jacket was a mesh and armored, no gloves and no hand damage except or the bone. I did find some scratches to the face shield and forehead of the helmet. I don't think I landed face down, probably hit while rolling.

The only thing that does jump out at me is the number of things going on. Sharp, downhill turn, narrow road, car stopped in my lane, oncoming car in other lane, people on the left side of road, no right shoulder (just trees and rocks). I'm a pretty fast thinker but I think there may have been too much to compute, no easy escape, and what came out in my reactions (cause there is not really time to think things through) was simply STOP. And that just didn't work out as well as I would have liked.

I am going to attempt to add some pics.

Ride easy...

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Staplebox on 05/16/09 at 15:41:09

Pic links
http://bayimg.com/IaPMEAabL
http://bayimg.com/KApmDAAbL
http://bayimg.com/japmdAaBL
http://bayimg.com/jApMGaABl
http://bayimg.com/laPmcAabL

give 'em a minute.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by bill67 on 05/16/09 at 18:08:47

I use the rear brake most of the time,then the front brake,I know everyone says its wrong but it seems right to me,I do the same thing on my 21 speed bicycle that I ride 5 miles every day unless its raining,But I don't lock it up and neither do I lock up car brakes. I'm 70 years young but on my grandkids wii game I come out 35 years old,Thats less than my 4 kids do.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/09 at 07:02:20

If the rear locks up too easily, you can mod the brake.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by PTRider on 05/17/09 at 08:16:49

050710030E064C0A17050A0711620 wrote:

Locking the rear brake is a very dangerous thing. The fallacy with MSF is that they don't have the rider use the front brake at the same time as we'd do in a real situation. When the front is braked the bike's weight shifts to the front. This lightens the rear and makes it skid more readily. The lightened rear, while skidding, has less traction than the front, so the rear tries to get in front. If there is any left/right imbalance in the bike's load, or any camber of the road, or any amount of turn in the front, you've lowsided. If you release the rear brake while going sideways, you've highsided. Either way, you're both down and sliding faster than if you'd stayed upright with neither brake locked but braking at the max. If you hit something, you're moving faster and hit harder if you're sliding than if you're on rubber tires braking at their max without skidding. Leather, denim, steel, plastic, bloody skin all slide faster on pavement than rubber.

787376762C2D1A0 wrote:

Very wrong. On both the bicycle and the motorcycle you have much more braking effort available from the front. The old tale getting thrown over the handlebars has more validity on a bicycle with its light weight and high center of gravity, but even there the weight transfer to the front combined with modern tire rubber gives much more safe braking capacity on the front rather than the rear.

There is no doubt with motorcycles. The combination of the cycle's low center of gravity and weight makes getting thrown over the handlebars (a stoppie) almost impossible unless one gets the bike bouncing on purpose first. Use the front brake hard, as hard as needed. Use the rear brake moderately hard at first and ease off it as the bike slows and the rear tire gets easier to skid.

On slippery surfaces we want to use both brakes about 50-50 (however we'd judge that???) and just ride more cautiously in the first place.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 05/17/09 at 11:17:59

Starting with the back brake is not a great idea because once the foot is set on the pedal, then applying the front can lighten the rear & induce a skid.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by bill67 on 05/17/09 at 11:23:31

I've never locked the back brake in 38 years and I don't intend too,Also never went down.Every one knows you don't stop as fast if you lock the brakes.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by marshall13 on 05/17/09 at 11:33:13

here's an idea for ya... "stab braking"... it's a technique used by truckers to keep from jack-knifing(and maintain direction control) on panic stops.... i used it driving junker taxicabs with less than ideal proportioning valve bias... the modified technique i envision for a bike would be one "pumps" the rear pedal, hard and very fast... idea being to just lock the wheel, and instantly release, before the bikes dynamics become a problem.... a rapid "chirp, chirp chirp chirp" is what you get if done right on 4 or more... reins the cages and trucks in very rapidly, and it's basically what an ABS system does.... ok, get to tossing the produce...lol

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Louisiana_Geezer on 05/17/09 at 11:51:46

I didn't know what a highside was until I read the description a few posts above. That's something like what happened to me a few days ago, although I was fortunate enough to avoid a fall or crash.

I had been riding in fairly heavy traffic on a 2-lane highway at ~ 50 MPH. There was a pickup in front of me about 50 feet that was tailgating a car in front of him. Another pickup was tailgating me, and I usually slow down to get tailgaters to pass in instances like this, but this being rush hour, the guy behind me had no break in oncoming traffic that would allow him to get around me.

Traffic being what it was, I had to keep a close eye on the guy behind me in my mirrors while making sure that everything in front of me was OK... it wasn't. The pickup in front of me braked strongly to avoid slamming into the car in front of him that had stopped to make a left hand turn WITHOUT using his turn signal. As I changed my sight from the tailgater in my mirror to the driver in front of me, I saw that my 40 foot margin was down to about 25 so I went into a panic stop by applying the rear brake first, then the front. There must have been a little bit of moisture on the road because my rear wheel was coming around on me — almost to the point of being perpendicular to the side of the road. I knew that if I fell, I ran the risk of being run over by the guy behind me, so I did what runs contrary to the advice above and released the brakes. With the pickup in front of me now at a dead stop with my MC now down to ~35, I was fortunate enough to have the room on the right to get past him and the car in front of him without hitting the curb.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Staplebox on 05/17/09 at 12:22:09

Geezer - thats what I wish I had done. Woulda been a much nicer day - and summer.

I looked more into this bone I broke on the web and apparently it can be a bit@h sometimes. I'll need to wait till I see the bone md but it could be a six month, surgery, pin type deal.

On the bright side I may take the opportunity to look into doing some bobbing, looking for some new pegs, lights and mirrors. And I can't change diapers with one hand ;)

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by verslagen1 on 05/17/09 at 13:19:38

34382B2A31383535686A590 wrote:

I'll have to wait until palsy sets in before I can do that. Not likely in my family. We tend towards alzheimers, so I'll just forget about braking and drive around... wait a minute! that's what I'm doing now.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by voldigicam on 07/05/09 at 18:12:28

Another way of highsiding I had not thought of. Wife popped her scooter off the outside of a corner into the grass, instead of dropping and sliding, she rode it back onto the road, hitting the raised edge of the road diagonally. Front wheel went on fine, but the rear wheel bounced up, banged back and forth a couple of times and then grabbed a bit when sideways, torqued the front wheel around and the scooter went over forward, skidded hard on the front with body damage showing a decent slide on fender and bars.

She flew briefly, landed on hip & elbow, bounced up. Think she went over on her back for a moment, then over onto her front for a final slide. Jambed her fingertips, sore wrist, abraded knees, and many bruises. She hit the end of the handlebar with her thigh.

She borrowed my new jacket and helmet, had gloves and good shoes on. The helmet slid on the back a little and on the front a little, hit firmly, but not tremendously hard - think she was likely chattering along the road. Enough force to make things blurry for her. Jacket has holes in it through the mesh in an amazing number of places, the Cordura patches just got scuffed (guess what my replacement is made of), inner mesh liner held up.

If she'd low sided the grass, wouldn't have been any problem. A couple of dings in the bike. The high side was remarkably destructive. I've got the glass work done, and am into bondo work. Plenty of it. Then I have to try to match the paint!

Her problems were 1) not knowing how to corner harder 2) not knowing how to straighten up and stop, 3) not realizing she shouldn't try to get back on the road.

This was her second high side - first a result of a dog hitting her rear wheel hard on her bicycle (big dog). That one she handled better, landing pretty well considering she was cleated in. Broke her cheek bone back under her eye, deep abrasions, torn ligaments in thumbs.

These high side falls are pretty dang tough on people.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by tldk1678 on 07/05/09 at 20:20:39

I've only been riding a couple of months and still use full face helmet, gloves, armored mesh jacket (hot in GA summer), jeans, and boots. I've been sorely tempted to leave the jacket off and wear shorts when it hits the high 90's but will continue to resist after reading this.

Thanks

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by Rocco on 07/05/09 at 23:09:49

i see all the older guys(and some young ones) in t-shirts and no helmet...cooler temperature yes, but doesn't save your skin!

i like having as many things possible in my favor, armor is one of those things!!

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by FreeSpirit on 07/05/09 at 23:41:24

7B464A4A46290 wrote:

Well if you fly you gotta have wings ;)
Makes the landing much smoother.

Sorry voldigicam(sp),about your wife,truly...
just picking on Rocco.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by tomtaz1975 on 07/06/09 at 15:48:06

Just my $0.01 on the issue:

1- defensive riding to avoid a hard stop/emergency situation should be the #1 goal.

2- practice practice practice emergency situations. You have more options than braking, so practice the braking and swerving.

3- specifically to rear brake. Police motorcycle training actually teaches the opposite of MSF: to release the rear brake if it locks up. However, the important difference is that they teach their riders to understand almost instantly when the rear wheel locks up so they can release and reapply before it gets out of control. They practice going "past the limit" hundreds of times. As discussed earlier, if you release early enough you have very little chance to be thrown. Most riders don't realize quickly that their rear tire is locked, so releasing it is VERY dangerous. Obviously MSF has to assume you don't know quickly enough that you locked your tire, so some road rash is a better option that launching yourself from the bike.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by bill67 on 07/06/09 at 15:59:08

Wouldn't a person know if they lockup the rear brake,Maybe the young ones here have only driven cars with anti lock brakes.

Title: Re: Highside - not the best way to dismount
Post by voldigicam on 07/06/09 at 19:01:37

It's actually possible not to know the rear wheel is sliding until it goes sideways a bit. Can happen pretty gradually. I thought about that today and tried out various braking patterns. A quick jab makes the slide obvious, but I can pop both brakes on and as the weight transfers the rear wheel will just quietly break loose and start to skate. Letting off braking pressure gives me a tiny wobble at the worst, but if I stay on the brake for more than a tiny bit I start to get some yaw and have a tremendous urge to keep it sliding and crank on the front brake!

But I'm used to riding 18.5 lb machines at a good clip. On our country roads, I rarely get the motorbike up to the speeds I hit on downhills on the pedalbike. Something I find pretty funny! Oddly, the sensation of rear wheel slip initiation seems pretty similar. Rather than noise, a sudden gentle loss of connection. On the motorbike, I have ear plugs in anyway. In addition to not having the best hearing.

I'd sure like to take a motorcycle cop training program. I don't feel nearly trained up enough on a motorbike. I might never feel trained enough.

And my wife is really OK. She's just klutzy. When I got her as a replacement for a defective one (the homicidal bent was worrying - at least I only got a limp and a bit of brain damage . . . .), she'd already broken her neck in a horse accident and fractured her skull in a car wreck. In the nearly 20 years she's been hanging around she has hurt herself falling down stairs (knee surgery), walking (just needed stitches & crutches), gardening (scratched cornea), cooking (knife cuts, burns, dropping heavies), packing goods (paper cut on the eye), and cycling (high side from a dog hitting the rear wheel - titanium plate in her face, some brain damage, torn ligaments in her thumbs). And now the scooter wreck just did abrasions and a sore wrist. Pretty good. Really, can't her walk away from a serious road mistake with no skin loss.

Of course she had to trash MY riding gear! My mesh jacket is really impressive. I wore it until I got a new one a couple of days ago.

Funny, she's really a beautiful bicyclist.

She's promised to take the basic motorcycle course before getting on a motorbike again. I found a place she can train on a Blast. After that, I think she can try the S40. I got one with some miles and a few dings in part so I could let her try it. Would have a hard time letting her ride a creampuff . . . .

Another path to highsiding is to scrape a peg, then recoil up while letting off the throttle. I see people try this up on the Dragon when I bicycle up there. Never a local, always a flatlander up in the mountains. They get a terrifying wobble and the radius opens up, which can be a serious thing on a curvy road.