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Message started by SURAZAL on 05/04/09 at 05:36:43

Title: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by SURAZAL on 05/04/09 at 05:36:43

just a funny story

I bought a spare gas tank for the motorcycle used and it arrived and was coated inside with rust
so I neede to figure out how to remove all the rust .. it came to me pour some sand in it and then shake it
and the sand would slowly remove all the rust ... the problem being shaking 15 pounds steadily for an hour
remember the line between and idiot and a genious is only a short way they say
so I thought and realized I had a machine in the house that turns slowly with a built in timer
I taped over the holes with duct tape then wrapped the tank in 4 blankets tied on firmly then took the tank to the basement and put it in the dryer
and padded it so it didn't move with spare pillows then put it on air dry and turned it on ... like a charm it ran smoothly and I could hear the sand moving
around inside the tank ... so I set it for an hour while I went and did other things ... I came back and took off all the wrappings and poured out
white sand that was now as dark as dirt and could see the tank was nice and clean inside ... and not a mark in the outside of the tank
a perfect job ... now to recoat the inside and put the tank on the bike ... just thought you guys would enjoy home shop manufacturing ...
Susan asked if everything in the house was a tool to me ... and of course I said yes ... I am an engineer ...

next I will build a foam insert probably using some old couch cushins
for so I can put in a 5 gallon paint bucket and use it to sand tumble clean side covers and other parts ot the bike
that I can then clear coat ... the slow action gives a nice satin patina with no elbow grease needed ...

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by diamond jim on 05/04/09 at 05:46:03

I suggest using something other than sand like maybe BBs or popcorn kernels. My worry is that you won't be able to get every last bit of sand out.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by vhfkid on 05/04/09 at 06:03:48

404D45494B4A404E4D49240 wrote:

I suggest using something other than sand like maybe BBs or popcorn kernels. My worry is that you won't be able to get every last bit of sand out.

I agree with D.Jim, you could also try using other media like walnut shells. I get them at the pet store and use them to polish my brass for reloading ammo. I don't see why it wouldn't work on parts, except it may take longer---But I like the idea of little elbow grease!

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by matt_savage on 05/04/09 at 06:20:07

I was faced with a rusty gas tank a few weeks ago. I looked into having it boiled out or sand-blasted on the inside. Best price I could find was $75!! I thought about doing it myself and would have loved if this had been done a few weeks ago so I could have tried it! But I went with a gas tank kit by Bill Hirsch online. It came with a heavy duty de-greaser, an etcher and finally a coating that goes on the inside of the tank. It worked like a charm. Degreaser took off a lot of the rust and the etcher removed the rest. 2 coats later of the sealer and it was rust-free! I would highly recommend Bill Hirsch's products to anyone looking to fix a rusty gas tank. Was only $45 shipped IIRC

-Matt

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by Gort on 05/04/09 at 06:37:04

I also used the Bill Hirsch gas tank cleaning/coating system 10 years ago on an internally rusted, gummed up diesel tank, so as to be able to use it with a gasoline engine. The tank is still clean and rust free after all these years. Fine product.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by SURAZAL on 05/04/09 at 06:56:22

in response to getting the sand out and the rust particles
just a nice little tipping and an air hose in through the filler neck
seemed to blow it comletely clean ... probably will coat it with lacquer paint that like the exterior paint is gas resistant ... BB are a good idea but cost a lot more that a few cups of sand from the kids sand box

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by srinath on 05/04/09 at 07:09:53

Sand ... well I use muriatic acid. Takes about 20 seconds.
Then dry it - well flush with water and baking soda then dry it I meant to say, a separate feat in itself.
Then put in POR15 metal ready - Its actually meant for use on a rusted tank straight on, but it sometimes makes so much dusty powder I have to figure out a way to get it all out.
Anyway, then Rinse and dry it.
Then put in POR15 which after an hour of sloshing needs to be drained as well.
Then cure it for 2-3 days and its good to go.
Some tanks need a drain hole drilled in them, like a honda shadow 600. Some others have problem spots like a GS500 tank has these massive pockets that are hard to get coated. A savage tank IMHO is easier than most.
Cool.
Srinath.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by Gort on 05/04/09 at 10:10:50

Be careful using "gas resistant lacquer paint." 'Gas resistant' does not necessarily mean that it will survive submergence. I've never seen any factory applied exterior vehicle paint that will survive submergence in gasoline for any length of time, except the military CARC coatings. Besides gasoline, the paint also needs to survive submergence in various additives, especially alcohol. There are special coatings that are designed for this purpose, although not all are guaranteed to survive alcohol based fuels. Hirsch sells a good one.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by marshall13 on 05/04/09 at 10:38:31

had an old rusty inside cb550 tank decades ago.... looking around the house and garage for a suitable internal scraper to remove the oxidation, i happened to spy an old jar of pennies (yup, good ol' us 1 cent pieces).... what the hell, i figured.... guess it was about 10 bucks worth... dumped them inside, latched my cap on, and commenced shaking the tank for an hour or so.... after my arms gave out, i popped my cap, and dumped the pennies onto a few sheets of newspaper spread on the garage floor.... a pile of pennies, and lots of super-fine rust.... peeked into the filler, and lo and behold, clean bare steel.... dumped the pennies in a colander and shook them over the paper to filter out the major rust, then gave them a real good rinse... absolutely free, the pennies are softer than steel, so no scratching, and you can reuse them forever..... told that to a local cat about a year ago who was looking for something to get the rust out of a vulcan tank, worked for him too.... love the drier idea, though...lol sand in your fuel tank? major no-no.... paint the interior? major no-no... even if the paint doesnt dissolve, it can still leach... not so sure id like paint binders going through ding-wee carb jets.... or going into the combustion chamber....

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by verslagen1 on 05/04/09 at 11:18:03

181E190A110A074B0 wrote:

Susan asked if everything in the house was a tool to me ... and of course I said yes ... I am an engineer ...

Wrong answer.
Correct answer (depending on what you want thrown at you)
No hun, you are a piece of work
Or
No hun, you are not a tool... you are art work.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by groupus on 05/05/09 at 08:29:41

reading this topic has me worried now... I have pretty much the perfect storm of stuff wrong with my tank, according to you guys.

I got a new (used) tank to replace my dented one last summer and it had some rust on the inside. I also got a friend to help me paint it (which took 6 weeks to get back) and he took my masking off of the filler cap hole before spraying it. AND he apparently didn't use enough hardener or something because any gas spilled on it will leave blotches on the paint unless I keep it constantly waxed.

so basically, I fear that I have a tank full of rust and dissolved paint. I really don't want to start messing with this now that riding season is starting and the Suzi is pretty much my main form of transportation. Is this something I should worry about now, or should I start saving my pennies for fall/winter? :-/

you can kinda see a streak down the center of the tank here in the crappy paint. I'm proud of the flat black flames that I did myself. ;D
http://p1.bikepics.com/pics/2008%5C10%5C22%5Cbikepics-1458322-800.jpg

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by matt_savage on 05/05/09 at 08:43:51

Reason why I tackled mine was easy (bear with me this is kinda long but well worth it). My engine kept cutting out and wouldn't idle or run right unless I gave it ALOT of throttle. I got fed up with it and tried everything to fix it. That was last fall and I said the hell with it, I'm gonna try and rebuild everything on it over the spring. I started to tear into it February. I cleaned the carb thoroughly, replaced a few jets and put on a new exhaust and intake.

I then thought I may as well switch to the Raptor petcock to try and eliminate the common problem of a leaky vac line (which I replaced once and it obviously didnt fix my problem). So when I went to drain the gas out of the tank that was in there from last fall with a wee bit of Sta-Bil, I took off the fuel line from the carb and put it in a gas can and turned the stock petcock to every position (pri, on, res) and nothing happened on any of the positions. No gas drained out whatsoever. Now I'm really confused???

Took off the tank and dumped out the gas thru the fill hole in a 5 gallon white bucket. You wouldnt believe what came out with the gas!!! It looked like a bunch of dirt was mixed in with the gas!! Turns out it was rust flakes. After I rinsed out my tank, I noticed the bottom 2/3 of the tank was covered in rust!

NOW TO THE ORIGINAL PROBLEM...I took off the stock petcock and looked at the bottom of screen and sure enough it was clogged and jammed up good with rust flakes!! No wonder the bike wouldnt run, no gas was getting thru the rust clogged petcock screen. So instead of trying to clean the petcock, I replaced it with the Raptor petcock after I cleaned the tank and coated it with Bill Hirsch's gas tank sealer.

Fast forward to today, the bike runs like a dream! No more cutting out and it idles perfectly. So if anyone has a problem with their bike idling poorly or running poorly and is tired of looking for the problem...CHECK THE GAS TANK FOR RUST AND/OR THE PETCOCK SCREEN FOR SIGNS OF BEING CLOGGED. hth

-Matt

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by diamond jim on 05/05/09 at 08:47:00

Great advice, Matt. Groupus, install a fuel filter for now and tackle the tank this coming winter.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by marshall13 on 05/05/09 at 10:23:49

Groupus, if you just have a bit of overspray in the tank, Diamond Jim is right, fuel filter, then after season, get the paint out... but, if it looks like your pal tried to actually coat the interior, id switch back to the dented ugly tank, and get the paint out of the pretty one... a filter will catch the solids in suspension in the fuel, but wont do anything for chemicals the fuel dissolved... depending on the dissolved chems involved, the combustion chamber environment can transform them into some very nasty compounds... abrasives, gummy tars, and corrosives.... if your carbs run dry, the chems that didnt evaporate with the fuel will be coating everything inside the carb... all potentially very unwanted circumstance....

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by groupus on 05/25/09 at 20:17:29

ok, well thats a load off my mind. my paint and rust situation is minimal being that there is just overspray and mostly just surface rust. I already pulled the petc0ck off and cleaned some of the loose paint chips out. This can now be a winter project or something; right now i'm concentrating on pulling excess parts off and general sexification of the beast. ;D

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by dr1445 on 05/26/09 at 03:06:53

i read where one fellow used a jar full of pennies dumped in the tank and agitated by hand, another used sand and wrapped the tank in pillows and a blanket then put it in the drier sans the heat. replace the sand with the pennies and you might have something, but i have to wonder on the gas odor. maybe flash the empty tank off with a yard stick and a match, that's always exciting.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by PTRider on 05/26/09 at 06:52:55

Well...I wouldn't burn the gasoline vapor.

After the tank is completely drained and any liquid is evaporated, there still might be enough vapor to ignite. Ventilation is the key. Putting the tank out in a breeze with the speedo out, gas cap off, and petcock removed would do the job. Letting some compressed air blow though would work; throttle the air down to a trickle. Or if there's a source of dry ice nearby, drop in a few bits and let the CO₂ displace the gas vapor.

While we snoozed through science class they discussed how there must be the right proportions of fuel and oxygen to combust. If there's too little fuel (too lean) or too little oxygen (too rich), it won't burn. Of course, without instrumentation, it's just a guess, so ventilate, ventilate, ventilate.

Title: Re: parts tumble and gas tank salvage
Post by marshall13 on 05/26/09 at 07:06:10

76716E3D0 wrote:

another method, besides burning all the hair off your arm (i know, yardstick and match, where's the fun in that?) or air-hosing and sniff-testing all afternoon... put the tank in bright summer sun, leave it for a half hour so it gets nice and warm.. then spray a 1/4 can of starting fluid in it... give it a shake... the ether will mix with the gas, and it will vaporize the gas along with it... same thing works to dry out a wet distributor cap on a car...could do the same with 151 or moonshine, but that would be alcohol abuse.... :D