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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Concerning my carb problems ( update) /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1241131601 Message started by odvelasc on 04/30/09 at 15:46:41 |
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Title: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 04/30/09 at 15:46:41 By now you all should be sick of my vm carb problems. I know I am. The latest problem is that I am blowing black smoke at ilde. Could be a rich mixture or burning oil. I dropped to a 22.5 pilot and I took her for another run. Turned her off at my destination. Started her back up a few minutes later and the idle went up super duper high that I had to shut her down. After trying a few times and playing with the idle screw she would not start again. She did once and idled a little high, played with air amd idle, throttled and she died. The question now is. With all the problems I have been having and the money I have put into her at the shop. Should I just buy a new VM carb and start over, or keep trying on this one? |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by DavetheDog on 04/30/09 at 16:10:10 That's not really a yes or no question. But I think no you shouldn't get a new one and yes you should keep trying. as long as there is nothing seriously wrong with it then all you gotta do is just figure out the tune and make sure all the parts are functioning correctly |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by speedingman on 04/30/09 at 16:40:59 Possibly and air leak around the boots in and out maybe sucking too much air, or a jet stuck? |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by serowbot on 04/30/09 at 17:04:15 Burning oil is a blue/gray color smoke,... black is fuel,..you're too rich.... |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by odvelasc on 04/30/09 at 17:43:43 3A392C2C2D20272E242827490 wrote:
yeah the boot does not connect quite well at the box. Shop dude said that I need to get a new carb boot that extends all the way to the box and connects perfectly. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by odvelasc on 04/30/09 at 17:58:57 anyways, am charging the battery, dropped in a 15 pilot from a 22.5, set the needle to the highest setting (sitting lower into the carb), charging the battery and I hope that I have not flooded the engine. Try to start her up again tomorrow. I know she runs, and she runs well at the middle setting on the dial a jet. Its idle that seems to the female dog. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by LANCER on 05/01/09 at 06:41:51 5B50425158554757340 wrote:
You are going in the right direction, however you should also check the needle and needle jet part numbers to see what they are. Those can make a huge difference in the fuel flow and can make it unusable for the Savage if they are not the correct ones for our bikes needs. The parts for a standard 36mm VM: needle #6FJ6 neeedle jet #159 Q-5 air jet #BS30/97 2.0 (tiny one in the filter intake side...in the bell) 38mm VM needle #6DP1 needle jet #166 Q-2 air jet #BS30/97 0.5 It is cheaper to get the correct jets/needles than buy a new carb. A VM carb is a simple design and parts are a cheap as you can get where various carbs are concerned. There are more parts available for the VM's than any other carb in the world. It is and has been THE MOST USED performance carburetor in the world for over 40 years. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems Post by odvelasc on 05/01/09 at 10:56:33 39343B3630276762550 wrote:
You are going in the right direction, however you should also check the needle and needle jet part numbers to see what they are. Those can make a huge difference in the fuel flow and can make it unusable for the Savage if they are not the correct ones for our bikes needs. The parts for a standard 36mm VM: needle #6FJ6 neeedle jet #159 Q-5 air jet #BS30/97 2.0 (tiny one in the filter intake side...in the bell) 38mm VM needle #6DP1 needle jet #166 Q-2 air jet #BS30/97 0.5 It is cheaper to get the correct jets/needles than buy a new carb. A VM carb is a simple design and parts are a cheap as you can get where various carbs are concerned. There are more parts available for the VM's than any other carb in the world. It is and has been THE MOST USED performance carburetor in the world for over 40 years.[/quote] The needle jet and needle have been replaced by the shop, so has the emulsion tube. The needs was not the right taper. I can idle now, but a little rich, and it seems superbly high after restarting when warm. I will check out air jet. Should I go up or down if I am rich? |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/01/09 at 15:49:57 Sooo, I throw on the stock petcock in the meantime because of the flodding problems. Everything seems pretty good now. Got her somewhat tuned with the 15 pilot jet. Still a bit of black smoke out the back end when a fellow savage rider comes over and starts admiring. Suggests that my idle is still too rich (the obvious lol) Well he suggested dropping to a 12.5 pilot (which I did not know I could get) and perhaps a less restrictive muffler (mine is soooo loud already lol). I am dropping in the 12.5 and see how it goes. So far the idle is not bad, hangs up a bit but comes back good. The black smoke at idle reduced as I rode along. Will definitely enrichen the dial jet a bit. Was getting some minor pops lol. If the 12.5 does not work than a K&N or cheaper version it is. Chance encounter with Metri gave me a bit more hope. Thanks for the info Metri. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by seviersavage on 05/01/09 at 17:50:16 Lonn at thunder products told me not to go below a 15 pilot. And it seems that flooding problems would be fixed by replacing the float shut off valve. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by LANCER on 05/01/09 at 18:20:15 Yep, Lonn is rather insistent about not going smaller than a #15 pilot. It still too rich then drilling the hole larger in the top of the needle jet is the way to lean the low range mix. On my own carb I would use a tiny needle point diamond mini-file instead of a drill bit in order to enlarge the hole for doing the last part of the fine tune. It was quick and easy and worked out quite well. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/01/09 at 20:13:31 7F7C69626F697E7B656060656D617F0C0 wrote:
Float shut off valve? Replace how? In terms of bledding out. I did that, however the shop were I brought in the carb replaced the needle jet with a significantly shorter one than the stock. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by smokin_blue on 05/02/09 at 04:54:27 I am sorry but I have not followed your full trail in detail. If you are having rich issues on the low end have you ruled out 1. a leaking float valve/seat? 2. float with a gas in it 3. float set too high (low when carb tipped over) Your comment about the raptor petcock leaving gas on the floor in the off position would indicate you don't have a great seal on your float valve/seat. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/02/09 at 05:11:40 27393B3F3D3A0B36382131540 wrote:
So then a rebuild kit is needed? |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/02/09 at 05:12:47 49444B4640571712250 wrote:
I am wondering why he insists on not going below a 15? What do you think the issues may be? |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by seviersavage on 05/02/09 at 05:30:47 I think he said that smaller than a 15 the hole is soo small it is easily clogged with any amount of sedement or just whatever, just beggin for problems. I got a rebuild kit for 15 dollars on ebay and replaced my float valve seat. If it's working right it will stop gas flowing into your carb like right now. But I had to adjust float level when I did that so pay attention, not a hard thing to do at all. Well after all this trouble your gonna know a lot about vm carbs! Get the brackets yet? Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/02/09 at 08:08:55 Yeah, I am on my way to being a carb pro. I bled it this morning. But it was too early in the a.m on a saturday to start it. Will tune the idle around noon. Yeah I got the brackets on monday. They look good, have yet to install. Carb is first priority lol |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by smokin_blue on 05/02/09 at 14:40:51 2F2436252C213323400 wrote:
So then a rebuild kit is needed?[/quote] I personally don't search out rebuild kits but replace only what is needed but that is my approach having wrenched on as many carbs as I have. First if you have the black floats you are probably fine. If you have the brass floats take them out and carefully shake it and make sure it doesn't have a pin hole allowing gas in. Smokin Blue (two stroke twin) sunk a float once and it would load up and foul out and then clear out and just about blow the exhaust off it. If the float is fine then I would take out the needle valve and seat (see Item 34 below) If you are missing the gasket 33 that could do it. Carefully take out the needle from the seat once you have it out of the carb body and inspect for any dirt or nicks down in the valve seat. Then look at the needle tip. It will either be a rubber tipped metal piece or all metal. Escpecially pay attention if it is all metal. If so look very closely and see if there is any wear on the face of the cone of the tip. This can happen from vibration. The old style had metal tips then they introduced rubber tips to try to solve that problem. I don't honestly know what they have stuck with. I have had good luck with both and have only seen a few worn ones but when they are worn they flood the carb and could really mess with your idle and just off idle. At that point you end up with too much gas too high up in the float bowl and blows your low end mixture off. You can maybe get a rebuild kit but here is the Sudco (Mikuni distributor) web site pages http://www.sudco.com/Carburetor01.html Take a look at http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/121.jpg It is assembly 34 and make sure you have the fiber gasket 33 in place. |
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Title: Re: Concerning my carb problems ( update) Post by odvelasc on 05/02/09 at 17:27:07 56484A4E4C4B7A47495040250 wrote:
So then a rebuild kit is needed?[/quote] I personally don't search out rebuild kits but replace only what is needed but that is my approach having wrenched on as many carbs as I have. First if you have the black floats you are probably fine. If you have the brass floats take them out and carefully shake it and make sure it doesn't have a pin hole allowing gas in. Smokin Blue (two stroke twin) sunk a float once and it would load up and foul out and then clear out and just about blow the exhaust off it. If the float is fine then I would take out the needle valve and seat (see Item 34 below) If you are missing the gasket 33 that could do it. Carefully take out the needle from the seat once you have it out of the carb body and inspect for any dirt or nicks down in the valve seat. Then look at the needle tip. It will either be a rubber tipped metal piece or all metal. Escpecially pay attention if it is all metal. If so look very closely and see if there is any wear on the face of the cone of the tip. This can happen from vibration. The old style had metal tips then they introduced rubber tips to try to solve that problem. I don't honestly know what they have stuck with. I have had good luck with both and have only seen a few worn ones but when they are worn they flood the carb and could really mess with your idle and just off idle. At that point you end up with too much gas too high up in the float bowl and blows your low end mixture off. You can maybe get a rebuild kit but here is the Sudco (Mikuni distributor) web site pages http://www.sudco.com/Carburetor01.html Take a look at http://www.sudco.com/CatalogJPG/121.jpg It is assembly 34 and make sure you have the fiber gasket 33 in place. [/quote] I will hang on to the stock petcock. I took a long run and it seems to be running well. |
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