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Message started by texsam on 04/23/09 at 15:34:36

Title: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/23/09 at 15:34:36

i have an 06 s40 runs great recently my battery cells ran dry and it died so i replaced battery and had to replace a fuse.a hundred miles or maybe 200 my speedometer started dimming off and on(not turning off completely) during my to work avg speed 60mph for 25 miles also seems to affect headlight a tad all controls still work and i think it dims whith using turn signal is that short or normal????doesn't seem like it :-/

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/09 at 16:32:10

I'd check out the relay and or the turn signals. any relay will do, doesn't have to be stock. so I would replace it and see if that fixes the problem.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/23/09 at 16:46:33

you mean the turn signal relay right?

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/09 at 17:12:32

yep

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/23/09 at 17:23:16

where do i get one

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by verslagen1 on 04/23/09 at 17:53:38

where do you search?

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1143176574/4#4

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1222291721/9#9

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by Gort on 04/23/09 at 18:08:09

Here is a scenario that I've seen happen: An Alternator's output becomes nominal, which eventually ruins the battery. Battery is replaced, and for some period of time, it, along with the Alt., keeps the bike running. All the while the battery is being drained as it assists the bad Alt. in supplying the bike's needs. When the battery finally discharges too much, the Voltage Regulator re-directs the Alt. current into the battery in an attempt to re-charge it, thus starving the whole electrical system for volts/amps and that can cause off and on headlight dimming. This cycle continues until the Alt. finally dies for good, or the new battery dies. I would put a voltmeter on the battery, start the bike and see what the volt meter reads: According to Suzuki, with the headlight on at high-beam, at 5000RPM the voltage should read between 14 to 15.5 volts.

Also, it might just be the Voltage Regulator. I've seen them go bad as well and overcharge/overheat the battery, thus causing its water to evaporate through the vent hose. You did mention the level was low in your old battery. In this scenario, the defective VR randomly re-directs ALT output and that can account for off and on headlight dimming as well as overcharging and eventually ruining the battery. Just some possibilities.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by diamond jim on 04/23/09 at 18:25:08

Awesome explanation, Gort. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by Gort on 04/23/09 at 18:28:07

Coming from a fine fabricator and experimenter like yourself who is one of this site's best contributors, that is quite a compliment.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by diamond jim on 04/23/09 at 18:38:27

1221273B2621530 wrote:

Coming from a fine fabricator and experimenter like yourself who is one of this site's best contributors, that is quite a compliment.

I love you , Bro!

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/23/09 at 18:44:16

thank you i'll check all these over the weekend when i don't work

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by PTRider on 04/23/09 at 19:16:05

Voltage regulator directing the alternator output? It just regulates the voltage, doesn't it? The voltage (the alternator output) goes to whatever takes it...low battery, lights, etc.

Yes, a high voltage will soon boil a battery dry.

Here's one test. Measure the battery voltage across the battery terminals with the engine off, after recharging the battery if necessary. A digital voltmeter gives a better reading. Start the engine and measure the voltage across the battery terminals again with the engine running at good speed (the 5000 rpm test is great...what does 5k sound like???). If the voltage is lower with the engine running the charging system is bad, either the alternator or regulator is bad. If the voltage is way too high, the regulator is bad. If the voltage is normally high, up to 15.5 volts as Gort specifies, then the charging system is OK and the battery doesn't hold the charge, the battery is junk or something is draining the electricity away. By the way, a (nominal) 12 volt system should never be 12 volts--that indicates a 50% discharged battery. 12.6 to 12.8 volts is a full charge (2.10 to 2.13 volts per cell). Up to 15 volts is needed to force the charge into the battery for a short time. (Right now I have a tired battery that recharges great but loses its charge when sitting for a couple of days. I'm seeing if it can be rejuvenated by desulfating (http://home.comcast.net/~ddenhardt201263/desulfator/hints.htm) with a Battery Minder (http://www.thebatteryminder.com/12v133abatteryminder-p-29.html) trickle charger & desulfator. If it doesn't reclaim this battery in a month or so, I'll buy a new battery.)

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by Gort on 04/23/09 at 20:22:35

42455A090 wrote:

I use the word 'directing', figuratively. The circuits in the VR 'sense' that the battery is low, and open an electrical path from the ALT to the battery for charging purposes. When the VR malfunctions, it can act randomly and stop the battery from ever seeing current from the Alt, or always see it, or sometimes see it but at the wrong times, and so on. Now I must qualify this by saying that the systems I have tested and repaired were designed as I have described. It may be possible that someone has newly redesigned this circuitry in some way I have yet to see, but I doubt it. But anything is possible.

Concerning saying that if the battery voltage is lower with the engine running than when the engine is off, which means the charging system is bad; I have seen malfunctioning charging systems put anywhere between 12 to 13 volts into a battery that reads 12 volts when the engine is off. But that isn't enough. The system should have a good 14 volts when the engine is running, at idle. Mine does, however I gave the Suzuki factory shop manual test numbers at 5000 RPM because its always best to quote from the factory specs whenever you are trying solve an electrical problem.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/24/09 at 14:13:51

well i tested the alternator at idle i was running 14.5 volts and with bike off it had 13 volts didn't do the 5000 rpm test cuz the voltmeter was from my job and the boss was coming in so i had to stop but it seems the alternator checked out good?, the negative lead was loose but after fastening it good ichecked it out and well the turn signals don't affect it really at all but when i use the 4-way hazards it causes a slight dim in the backlite of speedo and headlight??so maybe turn signal or the relay i did check out the relay it was clean and not burnt but iknow that doesn't mean anything, maybe a bulb?? i am gonna check the regulator this weekend the regulator is on the back fender under seat right and looks like a bunch of straight lines not to good with words but i think you all understand...............any suggestions???

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by verslagen1 on 04/24/09 at 14:18:57

It may have been the loose connector, but I think you should also do the 5000 rpm test. If the alternator is putting out too much then this is why your battery went dry. Get a cheapo voltmeter at harbour fright.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/24/09 at 15:35:33

just to throw this at you the prev owner said he never checked the battery levels except when he first got it cause the battery died it had 800 miles on, and i negleted to when i got it at 7000miles then battery died at about 8500 miles and no one had checked it in at least a year, could that also be a possibilty bout the battery running dry, ichecked my levels today they seem the same as when i filled it 400 miles ago

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by Gort on 04/24/09 at 21:02:00

Please be sure to tell us what the cause of the problem was, once you've solved it.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by SV og LS on 04/25/09 at 01:34:00

487B7D617C7B090 wrote:

All the while the battery is being drained as it assists the bad Alt. in supplying the bike's needs. When the battery finally discharges too much, the Voltage Regulator re-directs the Alt. current into the battery in an attempt to re-charge it, thus starving the whole electrical system for volts/amps and that can cause off and on headlight dimming.

Were you describing an old style mechanical regulator?

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by SV og LS on 04/25/09 at 01:42:27

Link (http://www.electrosport.com/technical-resources/library/diagnosis/pdf/fault-finding-diagram.pdf) to a quite good electric fault finding chart by Electrex.

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/25/09 at 05:25:51

does the speedo cable the one going to crankcase work as a ground cuz i put an oring in it a few days ago it was leaking and i was thinking maybe it's a ground?

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/25/09 at 05:26:42

oh and thanx for the chart that looks very helpful :)

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/25/09 at 05:52:17

just a question does anybodies speedometer backlight dim on and off when ya'll use your 4way flashers.if ya'll don't mind check and let me know if it kinda dims out with each flash you have to look close its very subtle

Title: Re: speedometer and headlights dimming
Post by texsam on 04/25/09 at 16:14:42

well talked to suzuki dealership in town here, the head mechanic said that the hazard lights will take some juice away and even the blinker due to small stator .i think he don't probaly know. i did all the testing on the alternator and the rr it seems ok maybe i gotta short in my lighting system cuz it also slightly dims my running light (brake light) not when brake is applied and only when use 4ways.its kinda a mystery i'll just have to wait see if it gets worse i guess maybe pop the tank off and have a look underneath the speedo but i feel rather hopeless in finding the problem :(i'll just scratch my head and keep on riding,thanx for the advise :)