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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> ethanol question? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240360601 Message started by bhcarl on 04/21/09 at 17:36:41 |
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Title: ethanol question? Post by bhcarl on 04/21/09 at 17:36:41 When I put my bike away for the winter, I filled the tank and put some stabalizer in. Started it every week or so to keep the battery up. no problems until a few weeks ago, started getting hard to get started. I thought old gas, so I drained the tank and carb. put in new gas would not start at all. Took it to the dealer, the shop foreman said" I know what the problem is , "ethanol" see it everyday," He said ethanol crystalizes in the gas and stops up the carb. jets I told him the place where I buy gas says there is no ethanol in their gas. He said new govt. rules says that ethanol is now put in all gas. Any thoughts on the ethanol in all gas and the crystalization issue? |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by thumperclone on 04/21/09 at 17:57:50 opinion only: (dont want an oil thread!) alot of stations have 15% etho gas, you have to look hard to find the sticker on the pump.. 85% etho is not good for our bikes.. didnt see where in this great land you reside.. here in colorado gas and deisel formulas change with the seasons(2 mainly).. there were others on this site that are better Qd to answer your base question... what are the specs of your ride, age,mileage,1st owner,mods, etc..etc.. sometimes a mech a neck will give an easy out of using the noggin answer..me thinks you need a second oponion..find you a pepper tree wrench turner... ;) what stable did you use? me thinks that stuff has a shelf life(i dont use it, I fire the bike up every 10 days or so during the winter,can get below zero here, this was third winter on my 06 no probs/fuel related, oem battery went too soon not cause winter,my own F.U. with sound system) |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Yonuh Adisi on 04/21/09 at 18:45:21 All the stations around here have ethanol though I do not know what percentage. I haven't had any fuel related trouble. Sometimes I think these bikes are so bullet proof they could run on hot peppers. (but I wouldn't put that to the test.) ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by PTRider on 04/21/09 at 18:53:49 Quote:
Depending on where you live you might be required to use reformulated gasoline, 5.8% ethanol, or oxygenated gasoline, 7.4% ethanol, or maybe oxygenated reformulated gasoline with more ethanol. Methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) was previously used for this purpose in gasoline, but when the tanks leaked into the ground MTBE permanently poisoned the groundwater, so it is now prohibited in gasoline. More (http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/steo/pub/special/mtbe.html) The best thing for winter layup would be to drain the tank and run the carburetor dry. If not, add the gasoline stabilizer and run the engine for a few minutes so the stabilizer gets into the carburetor. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Rustbucket on 04/21/09 at 19:24:09 The stickers on the pumps say that ethanol harms rubber, plastics, aluminum, evaporates in 90 days and gives crappy mileage. Yeah thats what i want in my fuel tank right there!! Oh and ethanol killed 2 fuel pumps in my cars too. Here in Oklahoma, Our pumps are required to say whats in the gas. We have stations that have 100% gas (NO ETHANOL MIX) We also have stations that sell ethanol mix gas. Last winter i parked my bike with a full tank of real gas (all i ever buy) and stabil and a little seafoam mixed in for good measure. My bike started fine and been running like a champ so far this spring. But if i was in ethanol land i think i would run it dry then adding stabil to keep things wet would be a good idea. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Reelthing on 04/21/09 at 20:13:41 Depends on where you live/fillup as to if the evil E (upto 10%) is in your fuel - or a rare place like OKC where you have a choice in the matter - the stuff is ok in the right location and garbage in others, very bad idea along the coast line for boats that burn a lot of fuel but may not empty their tanks for several months in off periods. you ever see E10% that has entered into phase seperation? - nasty crap will go right through a racor water/fuel seperator does a lot of damage in 2-strokes and just strands a 4-stroke, if it so fine force the small air craft to use it and watch them fall from the sky - oh they're not built for it? - no duuu neither are my outboards or motorcycles |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Jack_650 on 04/21/09 at 20:34:55 I run the 10% here in MN once in a while in all my vehicles 'cause I figure it's cheaper than HEET, which when you read the label is a lot of alkie. The alcohol absorbs the water in your system to help fight rust build up and helps prevent gas line freeze up in the winter. So in the winter I run it a lot more. I've run both 10% and 0% in the bike, never more than the 89 octane 10% blend with zero problems. It remains to be seen what happens if I ever get up into the Rocky Mtn. states where there's all kinds of horse pizz in the pumps. I'm pretty sure that by 2000 (my bike's vintage) the system was "hardened" to take the 10% blend. I doubt that there's going to be any problem. I wouldn't know when the change over became universal, but would bet it's safe enough for those of us with only moderately "vintage" bikes. Jack |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by ineclipse on 04/21/09 at 21:49:40 10% is most common here in Western PA. A while back you could get 100% genuine gasoline but most places have a 90/10% blend now. Still I've had no issues whatsoever with any vehicle. In any case ethanol is nearly if not impossible to freeze and gasoline will go to something like 30 degress below zero(F) i think and it will only gel up. The guy you were talking to is an asshat. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by aebooze on 04/22/09 at 06:03:37 Here in southeast ga all the gas stations i see are up to 10% ethenol now. Haven't noticed any problems with my car or bike, but I have heard of people with older boats having problems with their tanks because of the change. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by bill67 on 04/22/09 at 06:27:02 Someone on here said ethanol was good it cleaned your carb ::) |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by justin_o_guy2 on 04/22/09 at 11:23:33 & bikes with fuel injection have a fuel pump & hose in the tank. The hose slowly swells & fails. Nice little hassle there. Gotta replace with a hose that will tolerate the alcohol. I guess the new ones are produced with the right rubber, but older ones have caused people some problems. Yea, ethanol,, great idea. Maybe it IS somewhat of a savings on oil, but seems to me hemp would be a better crop to raise to cut down on oil use, since interior trim panels & even body parts can be made from it. OHH, but that would actually cut down on oil use, they wouldnt want that. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Digger on 06/20/09 at 19:57:52 My Savage has been good in this respect, but the pilot jets on my KLRs like to clog up quickly if the bikes aren't used regularly. I've started using this: Marine Formula STA-BIL (http://www.goldeagle.com/brands/stabil/products.aspx#marine_formula) I haven't had a chance to see how well it works yet, but it might be worth a try if you are forced (as am I) to use ethanol. |
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Title: Re: ethanol question? Post by Targett3997 on 06/21/09 at 07:34:49 Ok, so I am in the business of selling wholesale gasoline. Fact: E-10 will corrode plastics and rubbers. It occurs mostly in vehicles older than 1980, but it does not crystallize. It will clean metals though. The inside of gas tanks have to be cleaned or very closely monitored for this, most stations utilize ethanol filters in the pumps which will slow almost to a stop the flow of gasoline if trash or phase separation is starting to form or occur. It helps the stores keep you from getting bad product. On the other hand high octane branded fuels have a lot of additives in them. These can crystallize over a long period of time. This usually happens in vehicles or gas cans that sit over a long period of time. If you leave a carb sitting over the entire winter without cranking it, you can have several things happen. One the additives will start to gum up and allow things to stick, it isn't the gas that is going bad but rather the additives.(you can actually smell the difference in the gas, the gas itself is still good and will burn) Two you can get moisture in your carb from condensation and this will cause crystals to form inside the carb. Last time I saw this was with a boat carburetor, and it looked like two black potato chips were in the bowl. Also, Ethanol WILL mix with water. When this happens it will cause phase separation. This is bad and WILL cause problems. The problem is that the ethanol in gasoline does not 100% bond with all the gasoline in the mixture leaving some ethanol to be able to bond with other molecules, most commonly water. If this happens then the ethanol that is mixed with the gas will fill in the gaps of the bonding with water causing it to be heavy and fall out of the mixture too. This looks like having oil and water in a jar, and hence the name phase separation. The stabilizers take up this space left for molecule bonding, it won’t prevent it completely, but it will help. There used to be a you tube video of someone doing an experiment with this, not sure if it still there or not.( I have an experiment that I do for customers, I will take some pictures of the process of phase separation and post them when I get a chance.) My suggestions (opinion only) are, over the off-season fill your tank with a lower octane rated gas that has fewer additives. I also like to use an ethanol stabilizer, like the marine sta-bil. If you are going to leave it sitting without starting it, then it might be a good idea to put some “no fog solution” in the carb. Anyone have thoughts on this? I haven't done it to my bike before, but knowing what it does, don't think it would be a bad idea, but I ride my bike year round. Hope this at least helps everyone understand a little more about the gas thy use…I prefer to use a higher octane just because of the cleaning properties, but every few tanks I go back to an 87. This pattern seems to run well in my bike. |
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