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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> The tire whisperer- dark side info /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1240075649 Message started by Phelonius on 04/18/09 at 10:27:28 |
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Title: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Phelonius on 04/18/09 at 10:27:28 I just mounted for the thrid time a darkside tire onto a Savage rim. It seems to get more difficult each time. Getting the tire onto the rim is a piece of cake with large Harley spoons That I have been using for many years. Gettin the bead to seat is a whole nother problem. Those of you who have done this know where of I speak. Recently one of my friends completely exploded a tire trying to do this. It tore right through the bead and ripped about 6 inches up the sidewall. After cleaning his pants he showed me the results. It was scarey to look at. Number one rule. Never try to mount a darkside tire if it is a brand X cheapo. The rubber quality and the quality of the cords leaves much to be desired. My present choice for the Savage, it a 135 Michilin 15 inch. While it is true that the original tire is a 145, the 135 darkside has a much greater footprint without being too wide for the swingarm. As for the problem getting the bead to seat, The higher quality of rubber has a teensy bit more stretchability that is needed. I use a silicone spray for a mounting lubricant. When air is pumped in the bead always lacks about 25% of its' diameter from seating properly. Deflate totaly and re lubricate and pump up again. If you reach a stage where it simply will not bead any further, do this. Use an acid brush to apply Crisco, ( yes common veenerschlider), to the part of the bead that will not take. Brush some onto the rim at that point too. DO NOT DO THE WHOLE TIRE WITH THIS STUFF! Only the section that refuses to take a bead. Re pressure and it should work. If it does not you must have a different expression on your face. Using the Crisco for the whole rim may cause the tire to slip on hard accelleration or braking causing the tube to be torn at the stem. I choose Crisco because a petroleum product may cause the rubber to deteriorate, whereas the Crisco is a vegatable product that is much less likely to do this. Darkside tires are excellent for sidecar or trike usage but for two wheeled riding I consider them dangereous. Phelonius 8-) 8-) 8-) |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jack_650 on 04/18/09 at 18:56:46 I put my B. F. Goody 155/80 Radial TA on the back of my Sav last fall. It was a chore and a half getting it over the last little bit of the rim. Getting the bead to pop however was no sweat. I used a lot of dish detergent, and a sailor's vocabulary to get it mounted and I can only assume that all that soap at least made things pop into place. Maybe all the stretch of the bead with tire irons and such loosened things up a bit too. I'm not one to want to put anything greasy on there. I know the soap will wash away pretty quickly, but don't trust all that other stuff to go away nicely. And as for silicon, well that just scares me. As an after thought, I wonder if ye olde hair dryer on high might just let things stretch just the extra bit more to help get the bead over the rim and/or the bead to pop with the air hose pumping. Hmmm . . . After all they laughed at B. Franklin for flying his kite in the rain. Jack |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Oldfeller on 04/19/09 at 03:27:30 Yep, we tend to forget about the darksiders because they don't have say very much after the tire is in place. Jack, I found something else to like about the BF Goodrich tire you put on your bike -- it has a full 12/32" of tread on it unlike the 9/32 that some VW tires have nowadays. It should be a very long lasting tire. |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Phelonius on 04/19/09 at 14:28:19 This being the third darksider I have mounted, I have found no problems with the silicone spray. This is the first time I resorted to Crisco and only in the one spot that was so stubborn. I think I will buy an electric heat gun. That sounds like it would really help. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jack_650 on 04/19/09 at 21:00:13 Don't know that I would go the heat gun route. Those puppies put out a lot of heat quickly. Having seen paint bubble and plastic drip in a very few seconds I think I would stick to something a little lower in power potential. A 1,600 watt or so hair dryer with low/medium/high settings would probably keep you from weakening the rubber from temperature fatigue. More like running hot water on a stuck jar lid and less like a chainsaw for brain surgery. I don't want more than one contact point with the road, at least until/if I ever go the sidecar direction. Jack |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 04/19/09 at 22:56:42 Hmmm... hot water sounds like the way to go to me. You can put a hose right on the drain. |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Phelonius on 04/20/09 at 09:37:44 7E6D7A7B64696F6D6639080 wrote:
Hmmm, sounds good. Put a big pot of water on the fire and cook the tire |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/09 at 10:05:18 Been reading up on "tire soaking". It's a method of softening a tire for extra grip. Paint thinner, tolulene, or acetone applied in various combinations. Said to drop shore hardness by 10. And is said to burn off in 10 laps, tires have to wrapped to prevent the fluids from evaporating and loosing the effectiveness. So knowing that we need a softer bead temporarily to be able to seat the tire on the rim, would this be an effective method to "soak" the bead prior to installation? |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jack_650 on 04/28/09 at 10:18:58 I think the softener you're talking about is for making the rubber sticky. Bleach does the same thing, works great on car tires on ice. But is it the rubber that's the problem getting the bead to seat? Or is it the metal cords that the rubber is built up on to make the bead? Rubber stretches pretty easily, but getting a 1/8"-1/4" or so of stretch out of those steel bands might be our problem. I still don't get why my bead just popped into place with the gas station air pump so nicely. Seems most folks have some trouble. Unless it's due to all the stretching and pulling I had to do to just get it on the rim in the first place. Maybe it's good that I won't have to be changing it again for "ever". Jack |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/09 at 12:03:50 My concern with going darkside is if you get a flat, who's going to work on an unrecommended tire for you? |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Oldfeller on 04/28/09 at 13:25:54 Same person that put it on in the first place, I guess. You will still be dealing with a "tube issue" at the heart of all things, so that is unchanged from a standard tire. Once you get the tire on the rim it conforms to the rim again without any hassle if you have to take it off and put it back. It's been over 2 years for me so I am getting kinda rusty -- what exactly is it that you have to do to rear tires anyway? ..... ???? ..... ???? (must be some sort of trick question, maybe) ???? ?? Oh yeah -- measure the tread depth & mileage and project how many years you have left before you have to mess with it again. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/Wide_view.JPG http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/stuff.gif |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/09 at 14:18:49 0221292B282121283F4D0 wrote:
Oh, that idiot again... ;D The 1st tire I changed, besides nearly killing me, ruined a tube so took it to the dealer and paid for anouther tube, killt twice by the same tire. But now I have access to a tire machine, will have to see if will do m/c tires ;D Right now I have 3 sets of tires to wear out. Might make it to winter w/o having to buy tires. |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Reelthing on 04/28/09 at 21:52:31 Come on guys this type of crap will really screw up a newbie - yous need an alchemy room |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 04/28/09 at 22:35:11 Darth Oldfeller, do you take an average depth or just where ever? |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jack_650 on 05/05/09 at 07:52:57 I think those of us who survive the "wide tire" experiment should have a T-shirt or something. We need a "DarkSider" logo design contest. Of course the shirt would wear out before the tire does, but who said life was fair. Jack |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by verslagen1 on 05/05/09 at 08:47:51 The "I went to the Darkside and survived" shirts were in barry's bags. ;D |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Phelonius on 05/05/09 at 17:23:39 I just did my fourth darkside tire mounting for a friend with a sidecar. It was the toughest one yet. The trick that finally worked to get the bead was to use my JC Whitney bead breaker clamp to squeeze a part of the tire that was doing correctly while re-inflating. This cause the tire to bead on the difficult spot. Then by removing the clamp and adding more air it finally beaded all round. Just another hint. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jay on 05/06/09 at 00:30:57 6552525B435F5E5950370 wrote:
"The Alchemy Room" sounds like a great name for a dark side section of Suzukisavage.com. A special place for all the unconventional mods, perhaps? |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by aliassmith on 05/06/09 at 09:26:41 48435B4E521313220 wrote:
"The Alchemy Room" sounds like a great name for a dark side section of Suzukisavage.com. A special place for all the unconventional mods, perhaps?[/quote] Nothing unconventional about a darkside tire on a sidecar rig. He did say sidecar. Aliassmith |
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Title: Re: The tire whisperer- dark side info Post by Jack_650 on 05/06/09 at 10:08:30 Alchemy. Makes sense. You start telling people your rear tire is older than their kid, or how many miles you've gotten so far, and they'll swear you're in league with the Mystic Radial Devil. I suppose our theme would have to be "Magical Mystery Tour(ing)" then. I will say that with all that extra rubber on the road back there my rear brake seems to be doing something now when I push on the pedal. Did a hundred and fifty mile round trip yesterday with my little red trailer on the back and and things went nicely. Hauled some plants one way and a keyboard amp back home. Stable and solid as a rock. Jack |
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