SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1238458689

Message started by Gort on 03/30/09 at 17:18:09

Title: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 03/30/09 at 17:18:09

Here is a visual set of tests on cotton, foam and paper, name brand filter elements. As you will see, increase flow rate = increase of dirt into the engine:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

I am modifying the above post, today, to add a new link showing a far more definitive test of air filters. Forget the link posted above. Go to this one instead:

http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by Reelthing on 03/30/09 at 20:18:07

it has always been so - unless you increase the filter area - one really should not do a same size highflow in a harsh environment if reliability is a requirement - but heck some of these customs use only a screen to keep the bugs and rocks out on $$,$$$ motors

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by verslagen1 on 03/30/09 at 20:23:49

His test isn't quantitative enough. Visual comparation of color density may not disclose the amount and size of the particulate caught by the filter. At least a before and after weight would have clearly determined which filter caught the most. Color is determined by how much dirt was impacted on the surface.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by Gort on 03/30/09 at 22:07:00

Heres a link to a state of the art air filter test:

http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

Once again, increase in flow rate of same sized filters= increase in dirt going into the engine. It is interesting to read that a stock air filter is designed to give the stock configuration engine all the airflow it needs. Furthermore, a stock aircleaner housing is engineered to eliminate turbulence, which is detrimental to both economy and power. Aftermarket cones do not provide this effect. Myself, I use a cheap stainless steel cone with cotton gauze filter soaked with K&N filter oil because I don't give a dam about gas efficiency or engine longevity. I just like to hear the intake noise

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by diamond jim on 03/31/09 at 06:14:32

Is smoke considered dirt? Since he drives the car 6-8K miles per year it took him 5-6 months to complete his testing. Hmmm....

Okay, let's inject a little common sense here. He's saying that he placed these test samples in the airflow behind the various tested filters, drove an average of 500 miles with each and the samples indicate how much dirt got past the filters. That would mean that the overwhelming amount of dirt, likely 90+% of the dirt, was caught by the tested filters and this much got thru after only 500 miles. Are you kidding me? Let me go pull my filter out of my '04 Yukon that's been sitting in there for 32,000 miles, filtering dust from a long gravel road driven twice a day for the past 3 years, cut it open, lay it out and no section of it would look anything like that. But according to his test results it should look several times dirtier than his test samples since it has been filtering the overwhelming majority of the dirt for the past 32,000 miles. Seriously, show me post-test pics of the tested filters as they should be almost pure coal black if this much got through to the test samples.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by Gort on 03/31/09 at 06:53:31

505D55595B5A505E5D59340 wrote:

Study the more extensive testing in the link I later posted. This is the definitive test of air filters. Once again: http://duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by diamond jim on 03/31/09 at 09:04:50

So that link says the K&N filters 97% of the dirt.

If this pic below is 3% of the dirt after only 501 miles, I want to see what 97% of the dirt looks like on the tested filter.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/filter.jpg

Obviously this dirt occurred in the first portion of the 501 miles. Because as the 97% of the dirt accumulated on the K&N test filter, it progressively clogged it up letting progressively less air, and dirt, through to the test sample.

Heck, I don't know. It may all be legit. My concern is that the filter business is highly competitive. Bobistheoilguy is a site that has cultivated industry respect by presenting scientific, credentialed information. The fact that they'd present unscientific testing is puzzling to me. That would be like them posting one of my redneck tests! The fact that www.bobistheoilguy.com is sponsored by a major distributor of wix filters, a line of filters competing with K&N, Baldwin and Amsoil, makes me a little suspicious. I figure if the sponors' filters didn't perform as well the article likely wouldn't have been linked.

But this is still what gets me- if that test filter was placed in the entry point of the tube from the airbox to the throttle body, which is what it looks like to me, and it is so absotutely efficient that it can catch all of the 1-3% of dirt passing the test filters, I can't see how the sucker could drive the car. That matierial would be so restrictive. Some of the other links you've given look legit but I've got too many issues with what's presented as AnthonyS's tests. Still, it simply confirms what we know already.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by verslagen1 on 03/31/09 at 11:35:35

The interesting point that bob makes w/o making it is the airbox creates .18 psi of backpressure and the filter .07 psi.

Best to worst pressure drop on the filters is .02 psi difference.

So you can expect a 4x1 increase by just removing the restrictions in the airbox. For us that's simply removing the airbox door and desnorkle. And keep the most effective filter.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 03/31/09 at 13:04:00

The question is, in its stock configuration, can an engine benefit by increasing airflow beyond factory original design? The article in the second link I provided suggests that the engineers who designed the filtration system for their engines design it to provide maximum useful airflow. Why would they deliberately design a system that adversely affected engine efficiency? Increasing airflow does not necessarily mean an engine can take advantage of it.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 03/31/09 at 14:36:25

083B3D213C3B490 wrote:

Gort, you've got it wrong.

This is an intake designed for maximum useful airflow:
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/sowhatsitcalled/images/Top%20fuel%20dragster%20engine.jpg

This is an intake designed as a comprmise between airflow, space, asthetics, sound level, emissions requirements, low cost of production, ease of installation and ease of removal:
http://www.stangplanet.com/%7Edave/20080630_step10.jpg

They look quite different to me. Show me a single designer who can work within all of those restrictions and provide the maximum useful airflow for a common consumer production vehicle and I'll put him in for the Nobel. Some of the exotic sports cars get it pretty close.

Average engine intake efficiency is about 75-80% due to the filter and all of the restrictions placed upon the intake designs from air inlet to intake valves. You take just about any engine with the usual level of intake efficiency, improve the efficiency and add fuel, you've got more power.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 03/31/09 at 15:31:54

Remember, I said a factory stock engine. The first pic you show, has a highly modified engine. The blower scoop on it would do nothing to increase efficiency on a stock engine.

You also said you can take any engine, improve the intake efficiency and add fuel, and you've got more power. Again, intake manifold efficiency can be improved but then you wouldn't have a stock engine. You've changed the design. Adding more fuel would do nothing unless you changed the stock design of the engine. Increase jet size on a stock engine and watch that foul the plugs. But, modify a Savage engine by replacing the muffler with one with less back pressure, then increase jet size, and then you need less air restriction, MAYBE, depending on the air filter design. Without expensive lab testing (and not just taking it out on the road to see what she will do), you can only guess about that.

Concerning the manufacturer compromising efficiency due to filter design, look at the example Verslagen gives about taking the airbox door off. He demonstrated that the math shows less restriction. If less air restriction was something the engineers were concerned about, they could have easily placed some breathing holes in the airbox door. Any manufacturer can do this or some similar design alteration.

All this reminds me of the story of how great effort was made by an aftermarket manufacturer to offer expensive modified air cleaner assemblies to be used on the Jaguar V-12 engine. They were supposed to dramatically increase breathing, and they did. The engineer who was part of the team that designed the stock system tested the new aftermarket units and showed that absolutely nothing was gained. His comment was: Why wouldn't you think we would have designed an air filter system that was efficient to begin with?

Here is the conclusion of the article in the second link I posted:

"Now I am not saying that ALL aftermarket filters are useless. A paper filter does not do well if directly wetted or muddy. It may collapse. This is why many off-road filters are foam. It is a compromise between filtering efficiency and protection from a collapsed filter. Now how many of our trucks collapse their filters from mud and water? However, if a filter is using "better airflow" as their marketing tool, remember this....Does it flow better? At very high airflow volumes, probably. BUT, Our trucks CAN'T flow that much air unless super-modified, so what is the point? The stock filter will flow MORE THAN ENOUGH AIR to give you ALL THE HORSEPOWER the engine has to give. And this remains true until the filter is dirty enough to trip the air filter life indicator. At that point performance will decline somewhat. Replace the filter and get on with it."

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by bill67 on 03/31/09 at 15:45:24

I really believe Suzuki put the best system on that you can get,You might get more noise,but I'm pretty should your not going to get better mpg or horsepower,After all Suzuki has been doing this for a long time.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 03/31/09 at 16:10:47

So your saying all of us with pod filters paid money and in return got worse performance? And those that have replaced the stock filter with a K&N, desnorkled and/or removed the accesss door have actually worsened the bike's performance? I'll have to respectfully disagree with you to a point. I think the LS650 airbox is a much better design than on most bikes but I think it can be improved upon, especially if you ride a lot at highway speed.

For comparison, the weak link for my M50 was the tube between the airbox and the throttle body (FI). It had two 90 degree bends and and two diameter changes along it's path. That design was necessitated to accommodate looks (gas tank style, airbox location, etc.). You could get performance gains with a new intake, FI processor and pipes, but the bottleneck was that tube.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Charon on 03/31/09 at 16:33:41

Unless you guys with the pod filters did some before-and-after testing on a dyno, or a track, you do not KNOW whether you made any improvement. You know you got more noise, but more noise does not necessarily equate to better performance. Same with exhaust pipes. The factory designs a system, not just individual parts. Changing any individual part also changes the rest of the system. "Changed" is not always synonymous with "improved."

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 03/31/09 at 16:46:41

And that is just the problem here, no one knows what difference aftermarket filters will make on any specific engine without expensive, extensive testing. A pod filter 'might' decrease performance, if thats the only mod you made. But then it may not. For sure, you have changed the dynamics of air turbulence getting into the carburetor, which is why Smokey Yurnick instructed in his book, "How to Hot Rod Small Block Chevys", to leave the factory air cleaner housing on the engine. Also, if the pod filter is less restrictive than the factory filter, it will let more dirt in the engine. My above links demonstrate that. But you know what...who cares? I have a cheap cone filter on my Savage and it really sounds nice. I like to hear that sound. What difference does it make if its a little more or less efficient? The bike has plenty of power as is. You want to have a cheap, ideal set up? Buy Lancer's jet set and pod filter, put on a used Harley Sportster muffler and for sure get Verslagen's chain tensioner unit, and you will be in great shape.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/31/09 at 16:47:08

How well I KNow... Changed does NOT mean improved..
How do I know?
I changed my mind several times in the last 54 years,, I see ZERO improvement..

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Max_Morley on 03/31/09 at 17:13:21

In the immortal words of SGT Schultz on the old TV show Hoggan's Hero's, "Verry Innteresttering"!! Max

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by verslagen1 on 03/31/09 at 17:52:51

1C30290E1C3E233D3428510 wrote:

In the immortal words of SGT Schultz on the old TV show Hoggan's Hero's, "Verry Innteresttering"!! Max

Artie Johnson, laugh in. "Verrry interrrestink... but stupid"

schultz was "I see nut tink, I see nut tink"

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 03/31/09 at 20:30:35

0D262F3C21204E0 wrote:

Doesn't matter. If we dyno'd our bikes, someone on here would just whine about how we went to one that read high, or that we went to one that needed calibration to account for accurate drift and temperature. It would be something. The fact is I have more power, like it or not. Did I add more power to the bike? No. Did I relieve some of the restriction that kept the bike from making more of it's power potential. Yep.

Maybe this will capture what I'm talking about a little better. I wrote this the other day over at Motorcycle-Journal.com in the M50 section. It describes how opening up the bikes power and doing mods has truly converted me to a big-time LS650 fan. (Warning- if you only like the LS650 stock then don't read on. You'll be offended. You've been warned so don't get ill at me for my opinions if you keep reading.)

"In some ways I like it better than the Hellcat (M50). In other ways vice versa. When I sold the Hellcat it had Cobra drag pipes, DIY custom intake and fuel processor, all tuned through weeks of tweaking. It had some serious get up and go. My modded S40 would outrun the Hellcat up to about 65mph but the Hellcat would catch up and pull away by 80mph. Really strong crosswinds are hell compared to the Hellcat with it giving up 200+ pounds. You can also forget about hauling a passenger for more than 15 minutes. In town and on the country back roads, though, my modded S40 is so dang fun to ride. When I first inherited it from the wife, I had no respect for the bike. Absolutely none. To me it was just a notch above a scooter. It was a cramped, underpowered ride wrapped in outdated styling. It was okay for the wife but surely not good enough for me after having spent 20 years on much more bigger, powerful, gloriously styled cruisers. (Yep, I was one of "those" guys that we all hate!) I certainly had no intentions of using it as a frequent ride. I also did not know what the S40 could become in the hands of a serious modder. Now I make excuses to go ride. To me, the S40 is boring as hell stock, both visually and performance-wise. But once I understood all the ways Suzuki choked the power on the bike to keep it marketable to countries with graduated motorcycle licenses/power limits and to meet progressively stricter emissions requirements without actually replacing/redesigning parts, I got busy modding. Remember that 400cc M50 (M25) I posted about last year for the European/Asian markets? Imagine if Suzuki, instead of making the 400cc M25, took the 800cc M50, choked the intake, reduced air filter size, reduced FI injector size, choked the exhaust and programmed the ECU all to get the bike down to the levels of the 400cc bike to make it marketable overseas. Then imagine getting a hold of one of those, reversing those changes and then improving them even more. That's the kind of night and day difference I'm talking about. It becomes a totally different bike. When we do the Alabama-Georgia ride, I'd love for some of you to ride it. If you love modding, it's a hard bike to beat with the low cost being just gravy. Everything is metal. Everything is easy to get to and work on. Whereas at first I giggled at the thought of it being a serious bike for me, now nothing could separate me from it. I spent time recently on a '08 Honda VTX 1800, '06 V-Star 1100 and a '07 V-Star 650. Well, let's just say I've gotten spoiled by the modded thumper's speed, agility, low weight, comfort and roominess. Even the VTX felt more cramped than my bike in it's current form. Those bikes simply felt slow and bulky in comparison. I've gotten used to a cruiser that hauls when the throttle is twisted. If I come across a good deal on another M50 I'll snap it up in a heartbeat. Why? Cause the M50, in my opinion, is the absolute perfect, off-the-showroom-floor blend of cruiser style and performance. But it would have to share space in the garage with the thumper, not instead of."

This was the infamous Hellcat with the custom, hand made, one-of-a-kind hi flow intake.
http://i255.photobucket.com/albums/hh128/russ_diamond_jim/S4020068-1.jpg

Now, let me go get some popcorn real quick before someone replies back!

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 03/31/09 at 21:57:11

Now its just nonsense to infer that members will say that the dynos weren't calibrated or wrong because of drift and temperature. But if you are now saying that Suzuki deliberately engineered new restrictions into an already perfected Savage design, to meet American regulations, then that is an entirely different subject and has nothing to do with a motorcycle being designed from new to be the best it can be. And that is what we are talking about in this thread...a motorcycle being designed from ground up to be as efficient as possible by a team of engineers, only to have layman install a different design air filter and claim that the bike is now more efficient.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Charon on 04/01/09 at 10:15:54

Something else to bear in mind is that the airflow on an engine on which there is a single carburetor per cylinder is extremely pulsatile. For about 3/4 of the engine cycle there is no airflow. Airflow begins at (approximately) intake valve opening, increases as the piston drops through about mid-stroke, then decreases until intake valve closing. This has effects all through the intake system, in that filter pressure drop changes with rate of flow; carburetor vacuum changes with rate of flow; and fuel delivery and mixture probably change as well. Depending on valve overlap, exhaust system reflections, and engine speed, there may even be brief intervals of reverse flow in the intake system (usually worse on piston-port-controlled two-strokes). In the case of the Savage/S40 there is also an air line from the cylinder head (the crankcase breather) with a pulsating airflow entering the airbox behind the filter. The whole system is actually fairly complex.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results
Post by Reelthing on 04/01/09 at 11:25:48

1A292F332E295B0 wrote:

....... Myself, I use a cheap stainless steel cone with cotton gauze filter soaked with K&N filter oil because I don't give a dam about gas efficiency or engine longevity. I just like to hear the intake noise.......

and that right there is plenty enough of a reason to do it [smiley=thumbsup.gif]

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 04/01/09 at 12:56:23

Dang right! At least it'll sound faster!

Hey, wait a minute... now that I've thought about it- I want my money back! Jets, spacers, pod filter, K&N filter, exhaust, synthetic oil... your revelations have shown me that all of it is money and time wasted. Crap! It all makes my bike lose power and performance. This just ain't cool. Not one bit cool. Dang it!

>:(

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 04/01/09 at 14:12:22

Synthetic oil is neither a waste of time nor money. Endless tests have proven this.

However, if you install a muffler with less back pressure, to avoid lean conditions you must then increase jet size, and if you do that you may have to increase air intake. But why stop there? You've managed to decrease gas mileage, so why not change the cam lobe profile and add a higher compression piston? Now you've surely increased HP at the cost of even worse gas mileage, poor idling characteristics, engine overheating and significant decrease in engine longevity.

The stock Savage is engineered to offer maximum gas economy with acceptable HP, while operating within reasonable temp limits and all together offering great engine longevity. Some add ons and modifications may increase HP, but at the cost of reliability and or gas economy. Thats why Suzuki didn't engineer those design changes into their motorcycle, to begin with.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 04/01/09 at 14:34:13

I thought all those goodies weren't engineered into the LS650 because Suzuki was targeting the market with a simple, narrow, lightweight, low cost, single-cylinder motorcycle.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by verslagen1 on 04/01/09 at 14:48:59

Betcha them engineers were republicans :o

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by bill67 on 04/01/09 at 14:57:49

They might be republicans they started a war with us ,that they couldn't finish,Doesn't that sound just like a republican.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 04/01/09 at 15:06:54

It would have cost Suzuki no more to machine a cam lobe differently, or design a muffler with less baffle, or use larger sized jets, or to cast the cylinder head differently so as to cause higher compression, or to use a higher flow air filter. Nor would this have made the bike any more complicated, heavier or wider.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 04/01/09 at 19:34:52

Well I sure wish those engineers would have paid attention to your wisdom and applied some of those cost-free measures so we wouldn't have to fix the bikes after the purchase. You are the rarity here for not needing to change anything about your carb. Or have you?

I can see it now. It’s Friday about 3:45 in the afternoon. A three day weekend awaits them. Bossman Katsumi walks into the tiny, cramped R&D lab. He looks around with his usual look of disgust. Over in the corner, Shin, leaning against a table, quickly hides his bag of chocolate-covered Wong Dongs underneath an Eliminator 250 gas tank laying behind him and promptly wipes his hands on the front of his coveralls. Bossman Katsumi, as usual, starts to bark out orders. "Shin, Takao, Hiroshi... you no go home til cawbeweta finish.” The Bossman turns and walks out, slamming the rickety door behind him. "Sh*t", barks an exasperated Shin. "Wife and I go vacation when I get home.” Takao reaches up with his greasy hand and pushes his thick glasses up on his nose but they quickly slip right back down to their usual position. Takao gets up out of his chair, takes a moment to stretch, being careful not to aggravate his sciatica, then waddles over to the counter to join Shin and Hiroshi. In frustrated silence, they all stare blankly at the paperwork. More specifically, their gazes are fixed upon a single line which awaits ink. All three of them realize that the only thing that stands between them and a three day weekend is a little bit of ink. Just a couple of written numbers will grant them their freedom. Typed letters preceding this little line, this source or their collective frustration, form the two words "Pilot Jet". Takao picks up the paperwork, disrupting the gazes of his colleagues. Takao scans the form for a second and turns to look at Shin and Hiroshi and says, "I tink we use 60 piwot jet." Immediately Shin shakes his head. "No, no", Shin says, "60 piwot jet cost 64 yen. Misaki say cost too much.” Takao lets out a sigh of exasperation. "But 60 piwot better for motowcycle", replies Takao. Hiroshi turns to reach for his Asahi Premium Malt when a bag, sitting across the table next to the remnants of what had been Takao’s McSushi sandwich, catches his eye. "Hey, we use dose piwot jets", exclaims an excited Hiroshi, pointing to the newly discovered bag. "Dat way it not cost more.” Hiroshi’s demeanor changes as a look of satisfaction falls upon his pudgy, middle-aged face. With a look of hope suddenly alive in Shin's eyes, he eagerly leans over and picks the bag up. A moment after examining the bag his optimism appears to quickly drain from his face. "No", says Shin with a defeated voice. "Dees for Eliminator 250. Not big enough". Takao turns to look at Shin. "So?” asks Takao, the rhetorical certainly not lost on the others. "It fit. Dose Americans change out anyway." All three fill the room with jubilant laughter. A victorious ambience rapidly fills the musty room. Takao pulls his pen out of his pocket in a sweeping, purposeful motion, as though it where a Samurai sword being gallantly raised by the hand of the battle victor. With growing anticipation of tomorrow’s Dragon’s Day parade he eagerly fills in the blank line. "All finish", Takao announces, only to discover he is alone. He realizes then that Shin and Hiroshi had apparently run out of the room already. "Ha, ha", Takao says to himself. "Dose too are cwazy!".

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by verslagen1 on 04/01/09 at 19:43:48

pssst... the '87 had 55/155 jets, make up another story quick. :-[

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by bill67 on 04/01/09 at 19:45:40

All motorcycles are jetted to lean Even Harleys,All you have to do is put richer jets in and you have a good running motorcycle,All the other stuff is a waste of time and money,Any power you gain at the high in you lose at the low in,and mpg,So do what you like.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 04/01/09 at 19:51:03

All of you guys are fun as hell to debate with but some of you have gotta loosen up a little. It's like Kid Rock vs. the Enzyte guy.

I can't believe you didn't find my last post on page 2 hilarious. I was rolling when I read it through.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Gort on 04/01/09 at 20:56:54

Well, I don't think our members of oriental ancestry (and we have at least one that I know of) would think your making fun of Japanese people trying to speak English as "hilarious". I believe this site is above that sort of behavior, and indeed if it wasn't for the genius of the Japanese, none of us would be riding on such a fine motorcycle as the Savage.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by diamond jim on 04/01/09 at 23:16:34

You should hear me speak Japanese. Now that's hilarious. It's been so long. But I apologize to those of oriental ancestry. Tomorrow I'll call mom and apologize to her. But, hey, I can call Oba now. It should be about 6 in the evening there. Then my cousins, whose names I used in the stories- I'll tell them too. But Misaki will have to pass the message on for me. I haven't spoken with the others in maybe 5 years. I've no clue how to get a hold of them. Mom said Shin was playing baseball. But I promise I will tell them. It just may take a little while. Misaki, or Misa (Mee-sah) as I've called her for as long as I can remember, is a total hoot. She's also turned into quite a hottie. Too bad she's family! I still remember her laughing at me the last time she visited. I called the traffic in my town "rush hour traffic". She said I had no clue what rush hour traffic is like. Yep, us military brats get to see quite a bit of the world. Then as soldiers we get to see more of it.

It's cool, bud. I'm not offended. But I think I'll let you have the rest of your thread to yourself.

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Reelthing on 04/02/09 at 06:37:43

Pretty good stuff the Asahi Premium, still order it now and then but it brings literal flash backs - spent several weeks in the Seafort hotel - on check in - I says sure I'd like a view of the harbor and bay from the 20th something floor. I believe the 50ft wide Asahi neon sign does not stop blinking until sometime after midnight.....

http://savageriders.com/reelthing/pics/savage/as1.jpghttp://savageriders.com/reelthing/pics/savage/as2.jpg

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Oldfeller on 04/03/09 at 02:35:55

Personally, I think the bike was designed as a conservative compression large single cylinder price beater competitor to the aging Honda 350. Suzuki wanted something to sell on the low end to fill that market slot that didn't cost a lot of yen to make.

The same molds and dies have cast and stamped a lot of parts over the years for Suzuki. It has always ridden the lowest price point in the Suzuki lineup of street bikes. The Honda 350 is dust now, and the Savage rolls on. I'd say it was a successful marketing/engineering effort.

We like it because we play with it to amuse ourselves. Some make it noiser, some make it more powerful, some try to make it cheaper and easier to own.

It does make a pretty elegant little bobber. It also makes the world's primo get around town go pick it up "wee bagger". There are many bikes that can do "more" than the Savage can, but absolutely nothing that can do these two jobs better

==================

Now, when the 3 little nip engineers were in their engineer's cubby castle screwing off if their boss had banged the door open and roared out at them .....

"You Assho! You treee worthless salary men not leave office until you figure out how to meet new EU graduated license power requirements and new American emission control limits!

(he hits them with his little riding crop repeatedly until they cower submissively over their drafting boards)

You stay until your worthless peckers fall off or you come up with truuuly Yoda cheap solution, you treee worthless dogs!!"

;D I mean, if you are going to be culturally insensitive, don't muck about when you do it ;)

Title: Re: Air Filter Test Results, (New Link)
Post by Oldfeller on 04/03/09 at 03:18:36

PS. The Yoda cheap solution they came up with was the smaller pilot and main jet and a stock bolt style thrust washer installed in the intake manifold. Total cost added was .27 yen per bike with only three part numbers added to the BOM. It took them all of an hour to modify the design drawings and type in the changes to the Bill of Materials.

They actually got to leave that Friday on time.

=====================

We just hope that there is going to be a good cheap small fuel injection system that the treee truuly worthless dogs can adapt when boss man comes roaring back in later this year.

(it came out this past year on the 450 dirt bike as a matter of fact)

We hope that it can be easily adapted to fit the Savage so the Savage can continue to roll on roll on in 2011.