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Message started by mick on 03/22/09 at 17:47:25

Title: No Guts no Glory
Post by mick on 03/22/09 at 17:47:25

Took her out today for the first time this year.
Started first try,I run it for four minutes to warm it up,as soon as I hit the road it has no guts ,seems to go flat on me,best I could do was 45 mph in 5th with the throttle full open.
In neautral it seems to run right up to peak revs but wont do it through the gears, any ideas guys??

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by T Mack 1 on 03/22/09 at 17:57:14

Is the choke on?
Did you put anything in the gas before storage and if so what?

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by mick on 03/22/09 at 18:03:28

Sta-bil, choke working fine

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by diamond jim on 03/22/09 at 18:53:04

Air filter may have absorbed moisture over time. Moisture has a tendency to kind of lock all the fibers together. In neutral with no load it revs fine. But with a load, and real air demand, poor airlfow would cause similar problems. Poor airlfow also won't pull much gas up through the jets.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by mick on 03/22/09 at 20:46:16

4F424A4644454F4142462B0 wrote:

It's been in the house so no moisture,I cleaned out the air filter (K & N) and recharged it a few weeks before putting inside.
I guess I could drain the fuel and put in some fresh,but the sta-bil did not efect it last year, I'm at a loss.??

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Charon on 03/22/09 at 21:05:48

On the assumption it ran OK last fall when you put it away...Two things I'd try. One, fuel petcock to Prime, just to make sure you don't have a problem there. Then I might try removing the air filter and giving it a short run that way. If it started as you say on the first try, there likely is no difficulty with the ignition.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by verslagen1 on 03/22/09 at 21:38:40

Sta-bil.....thinking......way back.....click.....
Last year....bing...sta-bil

Last year someone had the same sort of problem.
Take all that fuel and pour it into your neighbors car.
Every last drop, tank, lines and bowl.
If I remember correctly, the sta-bil settled in the bowl and caused issues that went away with fresh gas.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by mick on 03/22/09 at 22:13:50

5C4F5859464B4D4F441B2A0 wrote:

Thanks Vers,I shall try that first thing in the morning,well maybe the second thing,after my tea and toast. I will let you know.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Charon on 03/23/09 at 06:47:40

Verslagen, any idea who had that problem? I find it interesting to think a gas additive, said to prevent problems with gas in storage, might actually cause problems.

I will quote part of an article in the April 2009 Motorcycle Consumer News dealing with gasoline deterioration.

"As I understand it, the problem is fuel separation. The oxygenating compounds being used in the gasoline are the primary culprits and not the alcohol (ethanol or methanol). The oxygenates and octane enhancers either separate or evaporate quickly, leaving the gummy, jet blocking and float sticking residue behind in just a few weeks' time. Traditional fuel stabilizers do not work well (if at all) with the currentr oxygenated fuels. Until a new fuel stabilizer is produced that deals with this new fuel formulation, I do not have a good solution for prevention beyond riding as often as you can and topping off the fuel at every opportunity."

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by verslagen1 on 03/23/09 at 07:50:17

I have no idea, they may even not be on the forum any more.
Most people only come in when they have problems.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Max_Morley on 03/23/09 at 08:59:53

Max had the same probems with both savages this spring. Only explanation is the seafoam caused some heavy ends to settle in the bottom of the float bowl as they both acted like the side was stuck, only had idle and low speed power. I was able to drive the bagger after it rode 1500 miles in theb back of the PU from WA to AZ with a dose of fresh seafom in the tank. I had the top off the tug carb twice to insure the slide was free and after I removed the float bowl and let it sit overnight it ran properly the next day. Next time I would try draining the float bowl first rather than take it off. Hope it works for you as well. Max

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by bill67 on 03/23/09 at 09:31:04

Rode my s40 last week for the first time in a little over 4 months,charged the battery when I put it under the cover,Stays in my insulated garage attached to the house,Never gets below 35 ,put ounce of sea foam in tank when I put it away,I put it on prime started right up with out charging the battery .Ran it 50 miles it ran fine just like it ran when I put it away.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Gort on 03/23/09 at 10:05:52

I've had this identical problem in car engines over the years and it was always caused by fuel starvation. The causes for fuel starvation that I have seen are: Internally collapsed fuel lines due to alcohol blended fuels which are in every gasoline in CA., Octane booster additives collapsing the inside of the fuel lines, and just plain old internally deteriorating hoses. I always upgrade my fuel hose to the best fuel injection hose, right away. Its stronger than regular fuel hose, which doesn't hurt on a motorcycle that can be dropped.
Another cause I've seen is a dirty fuel filter, or in the case of the Savage, a dirty gas tank screen.

Also gas tanks with un-vented gas caps and whose vent line is clogged. This creates a mild vacuum effect, especially on engines with no fuel pump to overcome it.

Dirty carburetor passages restricting fuel flow.

I've had engines rev to high RPMs in neutral, but not do so in gear. Thats because under load they needed more fuel and couldn't get it due to starvation.

Also, Stabil has a shelf life, and I've bought the product off the shelf only to find out the shelf life was expired, when I got home and read the bottle. Perhaps once past its shelf life, it solidifies, or reacts to other chemistry in fuel to solidify or increase its viscosity.

I agree with Verslagen...I would drain all the gas out of the bike, including loosening the bolt at the bottom of the carb bowl and drain the bowl as well. Also while you have it empty, I would replace the fuel line with fresh fuel injection hose. If that doesn't work, I would next remove the tank strainer and look at that. This would also be a good time to look in the tank with a flashlight for signs of rust.

Tomorrow I will look in my factory shop manual and my Clymer book to see if this problem is addressed. If it is, I will post what they say.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Wolf on 03/23/09 at 18:44:18

I have been hearing the ethanol addition to the gas causes the fuel system to gell. Especially if you let it sit for even a couple months not riding... Suzuki has a recall currently with this issue. On what vehicles ??? Obviously the newer ones in warranty,

Wolf

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by bill67 on 03/23/09 at 19:00:52

I can still get the 100% pure gas that what I use 90% of the time.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by Rustbucket on 03/24/09 at 06:08:48

3B3035356F6E590 wrote:

In Oklahoma we have a law that Gas pumps must say if they're selling ethanol blend or 100% real gas. I always get the real gas.
Winter storage Outside, Full tank of fuel with sta-bil and a little seafoam in it. Bike runs just like it did in Nov when i parked it. I finally burned thru the sta-bil mix a few days ago.
Maybe the ethanol blend is the culprit because not everyone who uses sta-bil has the troubles that the OP is talking about.

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by thumperclone on 03/24/09 at 08:25:04

some of our local pumps have 10>15% blend some e85(i dont use)
some real unleaded
only additive i use is every 3rd or 4th tank a cap of marvel oil(atf?)
had a fellow rider following me one day and he pulled up to me and said it smelled like i was burin oil..
winter "storage" for me is going out to the carriage house every 10 days or so and lettin er idle till oil comes up to temp..if its above 40 i take a spin if theres no snow built up on the drive(shady all winter)
third winter on my 06 some 13k on the od yet to miss a lick..

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by mick on 03/24/09 at 09:23:14

Well after changing fuel ,including float bowl, no change.
So I delved into the carb,I took it off the bike and stripped it on the bench, it was a blocked main jet,a little piece of black crud,it was stubborn I coulden't just blow it out,I cranked up my commpressor to 180 psi ,that disloged the offending crud.
Put it all back toggether ,took her out this morning and it ran like a charm.
Thanks for all the info guys, Mick

Title: Re: No Guts no Glory
Post by sakara on 03/24/09 at 13:16:19

Grats!