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Message started by cowspotter on 03/21/09 at 13:57:55

Title: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by cowspotter on 03/21/09 at 13:57:55

So a few weeks ago I installed my new battery and tried getting the seat off but couldn't find an allen wrench to fit the bolt. Managed to get the battery in w/o taking the seat off. I bought a pack of metric and standard allen wrenches because I want to check the air filter. None of them fit.

First of all, what size is that bolt? I have a feeling that the head is screwed up and I'm going to have to get an easy out or something to get that thing out.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by skrapiron -FSO on 03/21/09 at 14:14:31

You're talking about an S40, right?

My Savage had 10mm hex head bolts securing the seat to the frame. I wasn't aware that Suzuki used hex key bolts for the S40...

On my C50, the seat bolts require a 6mm hex wrench to loosen the bolts. If they keep fasteners the same, you might want to try a 6mm 'T' handle wrench.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/09 at 14:48:21

you might try sae sizes. who knows what the PO did.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 03/21/09 at 15:08:05

Yep. Mine had one hex head and one allen head when I got it.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by mick on 03/21/09 at 15:13:05

2 hex heads on mine 2002 . I have since changed them to hex heads with a screwdriver slot.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by ALfromN.H. on 03/21/09 at 15:19:13

My 2005 has hex bolts with screwdriver slots and I swapped those out and now have thumb screws so no tools are needed.
AL

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 03/21/09 at 15:32:41

Cowspotter,

When I got my parts bike, the bolts were kind of seized up. They just go through a nut that's tacked to a little tin bracket though. You can wiggle an oil can spout or WD40 nozzle up in there and squirt the back of the nut, allowing the oil to run down the bolt toward the head. That might loosen it enough to let you jerk it out of there.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by cowspotter on 03/21/09 at 18:20:47

http://w4.bikepics.com/pics/2009%5C03%5C21%5Cbikepics-1607927-full.jpg
http://w4.bikepics.com/pics/2009%5C03%5C21%5Cbikepics-1607928-full.jpg

Just thought I would put some pictures up so we are clear what I'm talking about. The bolt might be seized but I'm not even getting to that point. All my wrenches are either too big or barely grab the side so when i turn it, it just spins inside the bolt.

Verslagen, by SAE, do you mean 5/32", 9/64", etc? If so, that's what I tried along with metric.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by SimonTuffGuy on 03/21/09 at 18:25:48

That bolt is new on the S40 (vs the Savage)... I bought a generic set of allen wrenches and one of them fit. If nothing else works... Use a dremmel and put a slot in, use a regular screwdriver to remove it and then replace it with a normal bolt.

When I removed mine for the first time, it was pretty tight.

FWIW - You should be able to check the air filter without removing the seat. There's a screw on the side (right side if you're sitting on the bike) to get the cover off... And then there's another screw holding the airbox cover on.

Good luck!

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by cowspotter on 03/21/09 at 18:33:58

I'll have to take a look tomorrow morning. I used to have a dremel.....perhaps its time for another.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by skrapiron -FSO on 03/21/09 at 18:36:01

It's metric, not SAE. Suzuki does not use SAE fasteners on the bike.

Try a 5 or a 6mm. It looks like someone tried to tighten/loosen the bolt with too small of a wrench and buggered up the inside.

Take a T handle wrench, tap it into the bolt head with a hammer to set it in place, then remove the bolt and order/find a replacement.

I had forgotten that the S40 has a one piece seat now. The Savage had a 2 piece that was secured by bolts into the frame and into the fender.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by WoodLark on 03/21/09 at 19:15:38

I'm pretty sure its a 5mm. I did note on my 2006 that a ball end hex key will not grab it properly, but the flat end of the key did work.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by thumperclone on 03/21/09 at 19:48:17

my 06 came with that same pos screw..i put on a sissy bar and back rest with rack so that forced me to install a new hex head bolt cause the bag on the back rack and sissy bar limits access..
also saddle bags limit access to the two side bolts esp the right side
i use a socket and rachet..
to get em back in a lil elect tape to hold the bolt into the socket helps to get it started..
the 6 way screw driver the came with my cruz toolz set fits the new
bolt i replaced for the back of the seat..
when you go to put it all back together just start the side bolts then the back w/down pressure on the back of the seat...

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by verslagen1 on 03/21/09 at 22:19:30

5E524A4E4D524949584F3D0 wrote:

Verslagen, by SAE, do you mean 5/32", 9/64", etc? If so, that's what I tried along with metric.

Well it was worth a try. If it was SAE, english, fractional, inch, then you would really have a hard time getting it out unless when they put the wrong bolt in they also retapped it.
If all else fails drill it out.
But before that, get a propane torch and heat it up, although I don't like the area in which you are doing it in, plastic melts.
Take a dremel and a cut off wheel and cut a screwdriver slot.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by Savage Eddie on 03/22/09 at 02:06:31

Turbo sockets! heres a ebay link (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SK-Tools-1%2f4%22-Dr.-SAE-%26-Metric-Turbo-Socket-Set-SKT756_W0QQitemZ400009099435QQcmdZViewItem
), reverse threded sockets

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by odvelasc on 03/22/09 at 05:35:29

If you can get your hand in, try to get a socket on the nut underneath the fender.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by cowspotter on 03/22/09 at 09:17:56

I couldn't get to the nut on the bottom, there's a plate on the inside of the rear fender that covers it. I went to advance and got a set of reverse direction drill bit screw extractors. Pre-drilled the hole using a normal bit then switched to the extractor and went slow. Of course this was followed with a second trip to advance since I now had the offending bolt out and could match the thread size for a replacement.

All is well now. There is a 10mm bolt, which is the same size as the other 2 seat bolts so I'm happy. Btw, I don't think I could've taken the filter cover off w/o taking the seat off. There's a philips screw on the top edge of the cover that is impossible to get to w/o taking the seat off.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by Skid Mark on 03/22/09 at 10:02:15

THe engineers really buried the air filter. At least you only need to access it once in a while.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/22/09 at 10:45:10

IIRC, the 4 mm allen wrench is what fits that rear fender seat bolt.
Remember, antisieze is your friend.
If the head of the bolt distorts & the allenwrench doesnt want to play, take a small punch &( while protecting the paint from a runaway tool) give that little bolt a few sharp cracks.HARD isnt as necessary as sharp, quick taps, just trying to create some vibes between threads & unstick it. Getting a penetrating oil into that darned thing isnt easy, but maybe you could rap it, try it, if no good, dose it & try rapping it again next day.
If a head on a screw distorts, odds of winning drop, but I have used a pin punch, moved metal back into position & won, several times.Usually on phillips stuff.Dont recall it on an allen, but its worth sharing.

I got rid of the hex head bolts under the sides of the seat. 2 long allens, with jam nuts, now an allen wrench pulls the seat up there too.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by SuziQ on 03/23/09 at 21:47:45

727E6662617E65657463110 wrote:

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by diamond jim on 03/24/09 at 20:14:11

091610170A0D3C0C3C04161A51630 wrote:

Spray penetrating oil on it, lay an ice bag on the fender ensuring it touches the bolt head well and let it sit for 2 hours. Then do the sharp tap and try it. The ice will make the bolt and bolthole contract in size just a wee bit. Combined with the oil and the sharp tap it's the best chance you've got.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by SuziQ on 03/30/09 at 05:53:58

0026293A02530 wrote:

[quote author=727E6662617E65657463110 link=1237669075/0#0 date=1237669075]So a few weeks ago I installed my new battery and tried getting the seat off but couldn't find an allen wrench to fit the bolt. Managed to get the battery in w/o taking the seat off. I bought a pack of metric and standard allen wrenches because I want to check the air filter. None of them fit.

First of all, what size is that bolt? I have a feeling that the head is screwed up and I'm going to have to get an easy out or something to get that thing out.

All the fasteners on your scoot will be metric. The screw (bolt) at the rear above the tail/stop lamp is 4 mm socket head (allen hex). Don't torque it up too tight when you replace it. The other two screws on the side up under the seat are 10mm hex head across flat dimension.[/quote]
I know this won't be much help but the bolt in question on my 2008 S40 is stainless steel or appears to be a non magnetic material. Maybe there was an engineering change from a corrosion problem.

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by aliassmith on 03/30/09 at 10:08:54

Two ways to remove that rascal.
The crude one is to stick an allen of the closest size in it and arc weld around it. Then unscrew it and throw it away.
The other is to drill down through the allen hole with the same size drill as the bolt thread. Drill only far enough to remove the button head. With the seat removed there should remain enough to get hold with pliers and remove the rest. Without the compression strain of the head, the bolt should unscrew easily.
Then get another butt head screw to replace it.

aliassmith

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by doc5446 on 03/30/09 at 10:38:25

Reminds me of an old phrase I use to hear...
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/80/l_987ae8fa29d444a599a1b67040c5bdde.jpg

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by bill67 on 03/30/09 at 11:18:37

Yep I remember that phase well

Title: Re: Can't get seat bolt out
Post by Savage_Amusement on 03/30/09 at 14:45:21

Couple of good ways I saw real fast.
Cold chisel and a hammer.
Cut a slot with a saw or dremel. Remove with good size screw driver.
Drill it out.

Always use some kind of anit-seize. Even white, red, yellow, brown, clear grease is better than nothing!!!