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Message started by BurnPgh on 03/13/09 at 20:13:01

Title: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/13/09 at 20:13:01

I've done a few things to the bike over the winter. I finally got the tubeless (yea, it actually worked out dandy. I'll fill in the details) tires on and the chain drive all finished up. I also put a raptor petcock on and heres where I may be stepping backward. After finally having gotten all this stuff finished I went for a ride. Seems after a few minutes at about half throttle the bike starts to sputter and wants to stall out. Anyone else have this issue after switching petcocks?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by Yonuh Adisi on 03/13/09 at 20:20:18

Did you plug the vacuum port on the carb?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/13/09 at 21:08:18

i did. that was my first thought. I plugged it with a small screw and liberal amount of gray seal. I went ahead and globbed it up good with gray seal so if there a vac leak it should be gone tomorrow. Fingers crossed. If that doesn't work Im going to switch back to the stock petcock and see if that clears it up. Any other ideas what might be the issue?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by verslagen1 on 03/13/09 at 21:09:15

fresh gas?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by Mortation on 03/13/09 at 21:20:39

If you put your old petcock on does the problem stop?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/13/09 at 21:39:41

Gas is fresh as it comes. Had the tank off and empty the past couple months. Its possible a bit of rust clogged up the petcock screen but i highly doubt it. Very little rust developed that I can see and I didnt get very far before this happened. Maybe a mile but it was stop and go. In addition to that if I pull in the clutch and let off the throttle for a few seconds I can release the clutch and it'll run just dandy again....for another minute or so. Im done for the night I think. Its about 30 degrees out now. A wee bit chilly to be out all night test riding. Tomorrow I'll switch back to the stock petcock and report.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/13/09 at 23:12:34

Sounds like the gas in the bowl is too low, check the float level. You can stick tubing on the little Spout under the bowl & run the tube up past the upper edge of the bowl, loosen the Drain Screw & lower the end of the tube, OR maybe the flow rate IN is too slow to keep up with the engine,, that sounds mo like it..You can prove that by strapping a container on the seat & run a hose to the carb & go ride. If it holds a quart, fine..just have stuff to hook up the tank & carb if you run out.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by LANCER on 03/14/09 at 05:23:24

487F78645A6D620A0 wrote:

Assuming this happens each time you take it out...

Think ... cold engine needs choke (richened mixture), then when warm the choke is turned off (lean the mixture) in order for the engine to run smoothly and efficiently. If the choke is NOT turned off then the engine does not run smoothly, but sputters &/or hesitates.

Sounds like a too rich symptom.

The cause for the above symptom could be the float level being incorrect, or the pilot jet being too large, or the pilot air screw turned out too much, or the needle being adjusted for a TOO RICH midrange setting...or a combination of the above settings.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 10:00:01

haven't messed with the carb yet. Going right now to try the old petcock. fingers crossed.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 10:45:36

no improvement. I haven't done anything to the carb and i wasn't running rich last fall so i doubt Im rich now. Probably a bit lean. Only thing I did to the engine itself was to adjust the valves. Im kind of stumped. Float level i geuss. I did have carb off over the winter. Shook out the gas though. Something must be sticking. PITA.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 11:25:19

only seems to happen under a load...sort of. I live on a steep hill. No issue getting up this hill as long as Im not trying to gun it. Anytime I "gun" it hill or flat land it'll sputter. In neutral i can rev it up just dandy.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 14:59:55

Pretty sure something in the carb is gummed up. I adjusted the valves again to be certain the last time i did it i didnt totally screw up timing or something. All is well in that area for certain now. Went ahead and added a liberal amount of seafoam to the tank and ran it a few miles before i did the valve "adjustment". Afterward the problem persists but isn't as bad as it was and Im now able to rev a bit higher before it starts sputtering. Still...i wouldnt be able to get on the highway in this condition and I like the highway so im still open to ideas.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by markbacon on 03/14/09 at 18:10:33

I'll assume your using the stack carb (?). Something to check/clean is the throttle off by pass circuit. This is controlled by a vacuum diaphragmon the side of the carb - circular cover with three screws holding it on. The drilling to the vacuum side is really, really small and it's possible that it's got pretty crusty while the bike was sitting.

Your symptoms aren't what I'd expect, but it may be worth checking.

The other possibility is ignition coil. A problem here can only surface when the coil gets hot. Once the coil cools, problem disappears again.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 19:07:23

i'll find out soon enough. tearing into the sob tonight.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/14/09 at 23:40:30

gave the carb a good cleaning. Its well nigh spotless. It helped but didn't solve the issue. I also got a look at whats in my carb. 45 pilot 145 main. Didn't look but I'm wagering heavily that I've got the entire white spacer in there too. Im pretty sure im not running rich considering that and especially because all last year i used a well soiled air filter that had to block some air flow. Ive got to be even leaner now with a crisp clean filter. Can being overly lean cause these symptoms I've described? Using last years plug. Probably shouldve started with that but...i suppose it's possible the spark is strong enough to ignite the smaller amount of fuel while on the pilot circuit but too weak once i throttle past it. I don't know. I didn't do a freaking thing to the carb or engine (barring valve adjustment) so I have no idea why I was running just dandy last fall but now im not. Still taking suggestions.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/09 at 11:46:53

Is there a chance the float is so low he cant get the fuel into the engine he needs to run higher RPM's?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/15/09 at 12:27:00

pretty sure its a rich condition. I just have no idea how. Stock carb that hasnt been messed with and a brand new air filter should be making me even more lean than last fall. I stuck a new plug in just to see. That made it even worse. I could ride it last night I just couldnt gun it or go over 50mph or so. With the new plug I could barely make it around the block today and the plug was instantly carbon fouled when I checked it. Im leaning back toward the petcock. Thats the only part of the fuel system I've changed. Last fall with vacuum fed I was golden. Now gravity fed and Ive got issues. Geuss I gotta scrape all the gray seal off the vacuum ports on the petcock and carb and try it again. I have a temper. Please fellow riders, wish me patience or i may kick the sob over and light it ablaze in frustration.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by T Mack 1 on 03/15/09 at 19:16:48

0C3B3C201E29264E0 wrote:

Patience..... and beer......

Here's a thought..... with the new petcock on.... (did I read it was a Raptor petcock :-? ).

1- Turn off the fuel.
2 - Drain some fuel out of the bowel.
3 - Put a clean plug in
4 - go for a short quick ride, ..... you'll only get 1/4 mile or so, but that should be enough to see if the petcock is flooding the bike.....

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 03/15/09 at 23:19:48

I got REal Tired of going after the tools I threw & fixing the crap I broke, so I calmed down. I know a guy who rides a nice old Ducati, well, nice, except for the smashed in tank, where he slugged it to punish IT for not starting.. a daily reminder if his childishness. I think he keeps it to remind himself. Hes older, wiser & MUCH more mature now,,that was 25 years ago.
Anyway Burn, walk away, take a deep breath, plan your next move & IF the next move is a couple cold beers,, then get on with it!
Stay cool, dude.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/16/09 at 00:22:29

a short ride no doubt. Quick is the problem. Took the carb apart again tonight just to see. Triple thorough cleaning of every concievable part and surface. Not much improvement. Still can't get past 40 in 2nd without is sputtering and hesitating. Its 3am. Im going to bed.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by Moofed on 03/16/09 at 06:38:55

7740475B65525D350 wrote:

Seems after a few minutes at about half throttle the bike starts to sputter and wants to stall out.

5463647846717E160 wrote:

Still can't get past 40 in 2nd without is sputtering and hesitating.

Let's be clear. Are both of these statements still true? Or has the initial assessment turned out false?

I don't think the raptor petcock swap is at fault. Provided the vacuum port is sealed off right, the carb can only either get enough fuel or be starved for fuel. The only reason the stock vacuum petcock can cause flooding is if its diaphragm leaks, but the raptor doesn't have that. The fouled plug indicates that it isn't being starved I think.

You seem to have ruled out a stuck float or slide, and I assume you inspected all the diaphragms in the carb while it has been apart.

Weak ignition is the only thing left on the clymer's plug condition chart for carbon fouled. Check the ignition coil like markbacon suggested? Don't give up!

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by Mortation on 03/16/09 at 09:55:04

Did you check the carb boot for air leaks?

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/16/09 at 10:53:05

moments as opposed to minutes wouldve been more accurate but yes both statements still ring true. No air leaks. The plug had good spark when i checked it.

Title: Re: one step forward two steps back
Post by BurnPgh on 03/16/09 at 16:09:19

I decided to run without the air box cover off just to see. Problem solved. I cut down the big square "tube" under the seat to the air box by about 1/2 in and its all good. I don't know how considering I didnt have a problem last fall but it seems the seat was blocking airflow. gremlins. go figure.