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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1236629505 Message started by seviersavage on 03/09/09 at 14:50:00 |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by seviersavage on 03/09/09 at 14:50:00 I think thats an overflow, when I had my float set too high thats the line that bled gas. If you still have the vacume petcock trade out for a raptor 660 petcock. Perfect fit and just on-off-and reserve. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by ebmiller2 on 03/10/09 at 16:44:14 IS the year significant, or will any year Raptor 660 petcock work? :) |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/10/09 at 18:03:00 Apparently any 660 will work. My new carb is in and the bike wont start. Does anyone if I have to plug the old vacuum hose connection on the petcock for it to start? Anyone know how to tune the carb?? |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by verslagen1 on 03/10/09 at 18:37:49 353E2C3F363B29395A0 wrote:
No you don't have to plug it to start, but unless you converted it to manual, you need to put it on prime. only reason to plug it is in case it leaks later on. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/10/09 at 18:44:25 yeah I put it to prime and it still wont start. My understanding is that I am supposed to pull open the choke but not use throttle to start it, however that does not work. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by smokin_blue on 03/11/09 at 03:22:11 22293B28212C3E2E4D0 wrote:
If you are setting up a new carb that may not work. Once it is tuned you shouldn't touch the throttle but it is possible your slide is fully down and that won't allow it to start. You can either lift it slightly with the twist grip or adjust the idle screw so it lifts the slide a little. You may end up with a high idle that needs to be dialed back but it should get you started. Also, have you confirmed you do have gas in the float bowl. And lastly, depending on the model of VM they either had a pull knob on the choke or a push lever. Which model do you have? If it is the knob you need to pull up if it is the lever it will be a push down. If you have the lever watch the mechanism, the other end of the lever should be lifting the plunger that will reside on the opposite side of the carb from the end you are moving. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/11/09 at 06:39:05 514F4D494B4C7D404E5747220 wrote:
If you are setting up a new carb that may not work. Once it is tuned you shouldn't touch the throttle but it is possible your slide is fully down and that won't allow it to start. You can either lift it slightly with the twist grip or adjust the idle screw so it lifts the slide a little. You may end up with a high idle that needs to be dialed back but it should get you started. Also, have you confirmed you do have gas in the float bowl. And lastly, depending on the model of VM they either had a pull knob on the choke or a push lever. Which model do you have? If it is the knob you need to pull up if it is the lever it will be a push down. If you have the lever watch the mechanism, the other end of the lever should be lifting the plunger that will reside on the opposite side of the carb from the end you are moving.[/quote] I have the pull up knob and have pulled it up. By slide do you mean, that round tube that lifts up and down when twisting the throttle? Concerning the idle screw, I now have all the way in. How many turns is required? Just keep going until it starts? I should have gas in the float bowl. I see it coming through the fuel feed line to the dial a jet. Should I play with the air mixture screw as well? Perhaps play with the number of turns out as well? |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/11/09 at 07:02:19 515A485B525F4D5D3E0 wrote:
Loosen the float bowl drain to be sure there's fuel. If you've turned idle screw all the way in, it won't start. Loosen it so the slide's off the stop by about 1 or 2 mm which should be reasonably close. If the choke works, idle jet size or air screw position shouldn't be that important for the initial cold start. If it gets gas and you've started it with choke on for awhile maybe the plug's fouled at the moment and there may be a smell of gas at the exhaust. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/11/09 at 07:10:45 06033A321906550 wrote:
Loosen the float bowl drain to be sure there's fuel. If you've turned idle screw all the way in, it won't start. Loosen it so the slide's off the stop by about 1 or 2 mm which should be reasonably close. If the choke works, idle jet size or air screw position shouldn't be that important for the initial cold start. If it gets gas and you've started it with choke on for awhile maybe the plug's fouled at the moment and there may be a smell of gas at the exhaust. [/quote] If that dont work, then perhaps the choke does not work. I will give the 2mm screw out a try. thanks sv. I am very much so appreciating all this feedback from everyone. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/11/09 at 10:46:10 Update on the bike. I got it to start. It popped and shut down immediately. I may be rich i was told. It started up twice, each time stumbled and shut down with a stinky poof of air coming from around the air filter box (the seat is off). Oh yeah, I lost the oil fill cap? I have it sealed with plastic wrap until the new one comes in. Maybe that is affecting it as well? I am going to check my spark plug tomorrow afternoon. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/11/09 at 12:32:23 Missing oil filler cap doesn't affect starting. Did you have choke fully or partially on when it catched and died? |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/11/09 at 16:57:48 1B1E272F041B480 wrote:
Yeah it was all the way up. I am thinking that it may be a little rich. Perhaps I may need a pilot jet lower than a 17.5. I had a similar problem when my BS mikuni would die soon after start up. Turned out the plug was fouled beacuse the fuel mixture was to rich. I am thinking the same thing right now. I am gonna try leaning out the fuel mixture bit by bit after I check my plug and replace it. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/12/09 at 04:12:43 373C2E3D34392B3B580 wrote:
Yeah it was all the way up. I am thinking that it may be a little rich. Perhaps I may need a pilot jet lower than a 17.5. I had a similar problem when my BS mikuni would die soon after start up. Turned out the plug was fouled beacuse the fuel mixture was to rich. I am thinking the same thing right now. I am gonna try leaning out the fuel mixture bit by bit after I check my plug and replace it.[/quote] If the choke was fully on, try next time with half or 2/3 choke as the choke is the most important factor when starting. Jet sizes and air screw settings are less important. Also, you can clean fouled plugs by soaking it in kitchen vinegar for a few hours or overnight. Flush with warm water and let it dry before installing. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/12/09 at 04:50:19 1B1E272F041B480 wrote:
Yeah it was all the way up. I am thinking that it may be a little rich. Perhaps I may need a pilot jet lower than a 17.5. I had a similar problem when my BS mikuni would die soon after start up. Turned out the plug was fouled beacuse the fuel mixture was to rich. I am thinking the same thing right now. I am gonna try leaning out the fuel mixture bit by bit after I check my plug and replace it.[/quote] If the choke was fully on, try next time with half or 2/3 choke as the choke is the most important factor when starting. Jet sizes and air screw settings are less important. Also, you can clean fouled plugs by soaking it in kitchen vinegar for a few hours or overnight. Flush with warm water and let it dry before installing.[/quote] thanks SV will try3/4 choke first. I have a couple extra plugs lying around soo, if it is the plug than I will replace on saturday when I have time. Will update then. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by T Mack 1 on 03/14/09 at 05:28:17 Almost sounds flooded..... Can you smell gas in the exhaust pipe?? If flooded..... Take plug out, spin the engine over a bit to dry out the cylinder. Plug back in , then no choke and try to start it.. Other old, old school method is to open throttle all the way, no choke and hit the starter till it sputters to life. That needs a good battery though.... it may have to spin a while to get air mix right. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/14/09 at 07:56:31 yeah I am was thinking flooded as well since I have to start on prime and now it wont stay on. When the weather gets to 0 celsius or close to it again I am gonna drain the bowl, change the plug and try again. I actually tried starting with the throttle open which is how I think I flooded it. I am gonna plug the battery in to charger today. It has gotten freezing again since I installed it last saturday. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/14/09 at 09:27:08 52594B58515C4E5E3D0 wrote:
Throttle open won't flood it but it won't start either. If it's flooded there should be a smell of gas at the exhaust at least. Have you been starting it below freezing all the time? If you remove and/or replace the plug, heat it up somehow before installing. Warming up the crankcase would be nice, a tarp and small portable heater, even a 60 watt bulb near the oil drain for an hour or two would help. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/14/09 at 09:56:53 1B1E272F041B480 wrote:
Throttle open won't flood it but it won't start either. If it's flooded there should be a smell of gas at the exhaust at least. Have you been starting it below freezing all the time? If you remove and/or replace the plug, heat it up somehow before installing. Warming up the crankcase would be nice, a tarp and small portable heater, even a 60 watt bulb near the oil drain for an hour or two would help. [/quote] I have not been trying to start it up below freezing. It has just gotten below freezing lately and this the garage is a cold. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/14/09 at 13:47:40 update, the plug stunk of gas a bit, and was very sooty sooo changed it. The neutral light was dimming when trying to start and it kinda start and died right away. Sooo I pulled the battery and it is currently charging. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/14/09 at 13:57:33 Let it charge properly. Next time try it with just a bit of choke and start for a couple of seconds. Then just a bit more choke for next 3-4 second try. If it catches, give it just a bit of throttle, just a millimeter or so. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/17/09 at 09:47:11 Alright, the battery just needed a good charge. The bike started up and will stay on if I give it throttle. However, it wont stay running without throttle. Smells a little rich. God danm its f'in loud. I forgot how loud the bike is. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/17/09 at 10:10:51 Good job. At least it runs now. You can raise the idle speed and lean off the idle circuit at least, perhaps lower the needle also so you get rid of the richness. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/17/09 at 10:15:41 Which way is lean on the air mixture screw? clockwise or counterclockwise? The idle screw(one on the left) loosens up after 1.5 turns. TUrn this in or out? |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/17/09 at 10:33:03 Last time I've fiddled with a Mikuni VM was about 25 years ago. Anyway, if the idle screw you mentioned raises the slide then turn it in a bit. About idle mixture screws (pilot screws, air screws) my rule of thumb is: If it's on engine side of idle jet, it's mixture screw and leans off when turned in. If on the intake side of idle jet, it's an air screw and leans off when turned out. There was a link to an old VM manual somewhere here which should tell you if it's an air or mixture screw. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/17/09 at 12:18:38 yeah I put it up. But the way it works is that the air mix screw is on the right side when facing forward and idle on the left. I guess its the same concept as the BS carb. Lean is in, rich is out. I took it for its inaugural spring run and it is definitely running rich. As i am throttling the bike stutters quite a bit. I am off to work now, so the tank is coming off tomorrow and I guess I should adjust the needle to lean it out. Nothing I do with the air mixture seems to help with staying on, nor with the mixture screw. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by seviersavage on 03/17/09 at 13:03:23 It's the opposite of your stock carb, in is rich out is lean. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/19/09 at 14:28:40 Update on the darn thing. It still starts but it still wont stay idling. I set the needle to the highest position on the grooves meaning it is sitting into the carb more (thus more lean). I am getting black sooty smoke coming from the muffler and god dang it stinks. I went as far as 2 full turns out with the idle screw and the air mixture screw. Just to make sure I am doing the right thing, the air mixture screw requires a flat head screw driver, and is on the right? Anyways, I dont know what else to do now. Maybe I will change my oil as it is a little low and I did not leave the fill cap of for most of the winter (oops). I am about to lose it and just put the old carb back on. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by SV og LS on 03/19/09 at 14:41:29 If it's an air screw you can open it another turn or even two to see if it gets any better. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by seviersavage on 03/19/09 at 15:28:37 You got a used carb like me, take nothing for granted, check float level could be too high. Maybe go down to a 15 pilot. And also read your ufo instructions, might need to drill that hole in the needle jet. I did. Too rich, pull your air filter and see if that makes a diff, drop main jet maybe, it will have an affect. Main thing is don't give up yet. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/19/09 at 15:53:44 4C4F5A515C5A4D48565353565E524C3F0 wrote:
yeah I was thinking a lower pilot jet for sure this time since my problem is staying idle. However the power cuts out when driving it so it is definitely rich. I will try a few lower main jets. $$$$$$$$$ :( lol No dealership has these things in stock, so I am gonna have to wait another week booooooo! As for the UFO, My needle goes through no problem. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/19/09 at 15:55:03 Oh float is not too high, nothing is coming out the vent, and I can see that it may be a little low since the fuel is only three quarters of the way up the blue fuel line that connects to the dial-a-jet. |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by seviersavage on 03/19/09 at 16:33:16 just for clarification the hole I was referring to is one you drill in the part of the needle jet that sticks up in the carb throat. Only if you drop to a 15 pilot and are still rich. Seviersavage |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 03/19/09 at 20:05:18 3132272C212730352B2E2E2B232F31420 wrote:
So I will be bleeding the jet? What drill bit do I use? |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by texsam on 04/13/09 at 14:58:15 i have an 2006 stock carb, on the mixture screw for air/fuel, rich is turning counterclockwise (out) lean is clockwise (in)????i'm kinda new to this |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by verslagen1 on 04/13/09 at 15:24:43 Texas, ignore this thread it doesn't apply to you. They are talking about a VM carb which is opposite to yours. we need use guys to mark these threads... NOT FOR NOOBS |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by texsam on 04/13/09 at 15:50:42 hey there on a 2006 mikuni stock carb is the air fuel mix screw turned counterclockwise to make it richer or clockwise |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by texsam on 04/13/09 at 15:52:22 sorry my bad won't post here |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by bill67 on 04/13/09 at 16:43:11 clockwise is leaner |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 04/13/09 at 17:38:39 got it figured out anyways lol |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by LANCER on 04/14/09 at 05:15:25 With a UFO installed you WILL need to go down to a #15 pilot AND drill a hole in the little top section of the needle jet that sticks up into the carb throat. I am away from home on a trip right now and don't have my tech info with me so cannot remember the exact size but perhaps someone else will. I am thinking that it is a #45 drill bit...may be something close to 3/32" ? ? Not sure though. I went to the "Thunder Products" website and this is their brief intro into how to start the process. The material you get when ordering a UFO goes into more detail. They start with a #55 drill bit in this section, but for the Savage a larger hole is needed. Just going on memory I am pretty sure that it is a #40 or #42 drill bit that I use when setting up a carb with a UFO. ** Remember ... do not go smaller than a #15 pilot; the guy who created it was pretty emphatic about that for some reason. Just drill the hole and turn the pilot adjusting screw out for lean; 3 turns out is pretty much the limit without endangering the loss of the screw for lack of the spring holding power. Please do remove the needle jet when doing the drilling. I have been tempted to drill with it in the carb but just the thought of tiny metal filings getting stuck in some passageway and screwing up jetting/tuning adjustments causes me all sorts of frustration. Do not worry about getting the hole to large, go straight for the #40 or 42 size drill bit and adjust the pilot screw according to what the engine wants. If it is too lean then you just go back to a #17.5 pilot. I believe that my 36mm VM carb (with UFO and DAJ) ended up with the pilot screw at about 2 turns out +/-. U.F.O. (Ultimate Flow Optimizer) PATENTED AIR BLEED CIRCUIT ONLY use air bleed when a 15 pilot jet is still too rich! The air bleed circuit allows you to lean the pilot circuit without leaning the midrange and top end. When your engine is running properly and your only concern is excessive fuel consumption or when you need to go leaner than a 15 pilot jet, the following drawing will show you how to improve your fuel mileage or lean out the idle circuit further by installing a small air bleed. This is an extremely simple modification. The size of the air bleed hole will determine to some degree what size pilot jet you run. The #55 air bleed is installed in the needle jet only (not the needle) right next to the floor of the carburetor as illustrated in the drawing. If you want to increase the size of your pilot slightly to throw more fuel across midrange, you may do this and still have the ability to lean out the idle circuit by enlarging the air bleed hole further than the #55 size. We recommend that this be done cautiously in increments not exceeding 5 per time (example: #55 air bleed enlarged to #50). Numbered drill bits get larger as the number decreases. NEVER exceed #40 in size. http://www.thunderproducts.com/images/photos/airbleed.jpg |
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Title: Re: Dial a jet installed. VM carb vacuum line? Post by odvelasc on 04/14/09 at 16:06:24 Awesome, thanks a bunch. I was about to throw in the towel and swap back the stock card with the dial a jet. |
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