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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
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Message started by mpescatori on 01/27/09 at 00:59:40

Title: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by mpescatori on 01/27/09 at 00:59:40

Hi all,

went to my trusty (new) mechanic last night, Savage is on a hydraulic pedestal, engine off, the premises are clean and all the bits&bolts are neatly laid out in a rational way - gives you a snug comfy feeling.

The old camshaft was badly worn, apparently from running dry - which is odd considering I had been running with a more or less overfilled sump for the last year or so...

The old mechanic in Naples proved a cheat - charged me for fitting new cam chain and camshaft (Lancer's own) but never really did the job, just opened the packages, dirtied the new parts with old oil and said "there you are, kid - pay up !"... which I did, happily riding away in a supposedly "new" motor which possibly only had new oil... >:(

Soooo...

Now I have a machined head, to burr away the ugly scrapings in the camshaft journals, just skimmed the mating surface to the cylinder (the more you machine away, the looser the cam chain gets... think about it) a new camshaft and my new chain finally fitted (along with Verslagen's modified cam chain tensioner, the only bit that sleazy thief ever did fit) and am looking at reinstalling the engine back to the frame.

Sooo...

Question : I understand there's a "service plug" hidden just behind the front right footpeg, from where many lead the plumbing for an oil cooler; I am not looking at an oil cooler, but a combined oil pressure / temperature gauge, such as this:

http://www.holden.co.uk/getImage2008.asp?path=e%3A%5Cdomains%5Choldenvc%5Cwww%5Cproductimages%5C070%5F018%2Ejpg&WorH=w&max=300

It costs a full 93 GB Pounds, plus shipping, but it really looks great and is the same size as the 2" tacho already fitted to the drag bars.

BUT : is it possible to fit both temperature and pressure gauges to the engine? Frome the same service plug ?

If this were not possible, then I'd opt for the oil temperature gauge (78 GB Pounds) :

http://www.holden.co.uk/getImage2008.asp?path=e%3A%5Cdomains%5Choldenvc%5Cwww%5Cproductimages%5C070%5F028%2Ejpg&WorH=w&max=300

I'm just curious... those of you with a temperature gauge, or in the know... what is the "hot" temperature a Savage can reach on a hot summer's day, in traffic ?
Will the Savage keep its cool (so a 110C - 240F gauge is OK) , or become hot (fo I'll need a 140C - 300F gauge)

By the way, these gauges come with a metallic capillary tube topped by a sensor bulb threaded 5/8th UNF - I understand the service plug is 14mm x 1.25 or something, so I'll also need an adapter.

Hints ? Ideas ? Whodunit ??? :-/

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/09 at 01:43:50

Re-machining or scraping the head bearing journals to "clean them up" may increase the bearing clearance number greatly, to the point you may lose much of your oil pressure squirting out of the the increased bearing journal surface to cam shaft journal gaps.

You already have an indicator that you didn't have proper oil pressure before as you killed the cam and head bearings once previously and then you had a massive oil leak when your previous repair-thief finished the work last time. Now you are dead again for the same root cause -- no oil pressure to the head cam bearing surfaces.

Who is doing the work this time? What exactly do they mean by "to burr away the ugly scrapings in the camshaft journals"? What is the bearing to journal plastigage clearance measure now that they have done this to your head journals?

Did he identify and fix what was wrong to keep you from getting oil pressure up to the bearing journals? Did he identify and fix your massive oil leak that the last repair-thief left you with?

(shudder, I think I hear the sound of a dremel tool running in the back of my mind)

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by mpescatori on 01/27/09 at 06:14:40

Hi Oldfeller, the workshop is CERIANI, Rome's leading Suzuki dealer - and has been the leading dealer since the late '60s.

They have "prepped " quite a few motorcycles for long range journeys, for then-unknowns who later became famous motoring journalists. And they always spoke highly of Cruciani.

The job was decided by the chief (head?) mechanic after a careful look at the camshaft journals. He said the camshaft rides in soft ... what do you call those half moon strips that protect the connecting rod where it joins the crankshaft? Well, apparently the journals were worn for insufficient lubrication and they were remachined to size.

I won't inquire too much, it's their job and... you wouldn't inquire the quality of the diamond-tipped drill with your dentist, would you?

I understand your feelings, and you do have a point, but all I can say is "they are the best official workshop within a few hudred Km/miles, and I'm not looking any further than that". :-X

Now, back to that oil gauge business... please ?
PS anybody to suggest some fun, hair-raising fantasy torture for the sleazy b@st@rd back in the other place? >:(

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by verslagen1 on 01/27/09 at 07:49:56

I've been looking at those plugs myself.
m14-1.25
Adapters I've found have 1/8 npt thru the middle.
which happens to be our standard sensor size.
As far as which gage range, I've been told that normal should be half way around. I know temps will get up to 190°F, I'd go with the 300°F gage.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by verslagen1 on 01/27/09 at 11:37:56

Oh, BTW there are 2 ports for your pleasure.

And I hope you abused your rank and had the thief shanghai'd!

Bound and gag'd, rolling about the bottom of a fishing boat, far out to sea... then ask for a refund. [smiley=evil.gif]

oops! did I say refund? I meant the bill to have the work really done by the primo shop.

If he says no, offer to throw it overboard then pin it to his shirt.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by Charon on 01/27/09 at 12:38:05

I'd put him in any economy class airline seat for about a sixteen hour flight, squeezed between a couple of unruly children. Add an inflight "entertainment" system that doesn't work, and rough weather. Then threaten him with a return trip just like it unless he refunds your money.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/09 at 12:52:12

Did you know that the taste of chocolate is hidden in coffee?
A couple of squares of Ex-Lax in a cup o joe will make him go.
Maybe for more than a day or so.
Maybe you could go in & have a visit with the guy & haul him a cup. Chopping the "sweetener" finely will help it dissolve quickly.
I know I sound like I have experience. One guy brought 2 squares to tech school, another chopped it & rolled it into a tube of paper & I walked by the instructors coffee & dumped it in. No stirring at all & he never had a clue. He missed 3 days. I met him a bit over a year later & told him what happened. He laughed. Yep, he was the coolest instructor I had in the 9 months I was in Biloxi, Mississippi.
Our class got the last class of tube theory & tubes are cool. But the coolest class they forced me to attend was antenna theory.
Anyway, I ramble, sorry, BUT using this method you really CAN
"Fix his Butt!"

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by Oldfeller on 01/27/09 at 13:34:40

There are no half moon strips in our heads or located about our cam journals -- the aluminum head casting IS the bearing journal.

What are they telling you again ??

If CERIANI has a way to recover a head with bad bearing journals, we would all love to hear how they do it. It would be good news.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by DrT on 01/28/09 at 00:18:34

There are at least two ways to repair a head with worn cam journals. First is to bore out the journals sufficiently to remove scoring/wear then spray weld the cam surfaces and machine them back to the right size for the new diameter journals. Second way is to tig weld the journals to buld them up, then machine them back to the right diameter. Either of these is relatively straightforward for a well-equipped workshop with the right equipment and experienced staff. However, either is likely to be rather expensive which is why replacement is often preferred.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by mpescatori on 01/28/09 at 02:12:11

OK all, thanks for the tips on long haul flights and all...

On my last flight over to Norfolk, VA, I was ... squozen (as in squeeze, squoze, squozen... the badder side of squeeze :D ) between two unusually large... afroamerican mamas...

One hit the sack before we even took off, and the other was threatening to do the same, so I meekly asked if we could trade places...

"I can't fit in there" she scoffed.

"Perhaps, but the seats are exactly the same, and I have a serious stomach problem and would be climbing all over your knees every fifteen minutes..." LIE... 8-)

I got the aisle seat...

Anyway, back to the head issue.

You guys are right, the camshaft rides bareback in the cam journals, and they were machined and "whatevered" just enough to "git them scratches owt". Anyway, the job's already been done.

They suggested I get new piston rings as well, although the piston and cylinder are fine as they are.
As I wouldn't know any better, I agreed.

Now, those service plugs... if one is there where I found it, where's the other? Head area perhaps?
If so, same size ? (would make sense, but then, it's a jap...)

AND

How do you suggest I connect the whole thing, which sensor is best in which plug hole ?

Thanks :)

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/28/09 at 03:18:24

The two ports are behind foot brake pedal.

One facing forward (see picture below, is behind my Ed_L forward control extension)
One facing down .

Click -> Picture (http://www.users.fast.net/~tommack/ED-L_With-allthread.JPG)

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by mpescatori on 01/29/09 at 02:33:20

Oooohhh... :)

OK, Thanks.

Now, are they engineered in a way to expect an oil cooler?
If so, which is in and which is out?

If not, which iof the two is best for oil pressure, and which for oil temperature ? ::)

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by 88pagan on 01/29/09 at 05:53:23

The forward facing outlet would be flowing "out", the inlet on the bottom of the engine would be the "in". Just ordered my sender bushing yesterday(ordered a couple for you too Verslagen)..can't wait to install my temp gauge! Maybe an oil cooler is in my future too....

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by thumperclone on 01/29/09 at 18:11:39

i had an adaptor machined for my temp gauge..used the forward port,
that port is for pressure testing as shown in the ssm..my temp gauge tends to flutter a bit at high temp combined high revs...nothing radical just not steady needle under those conditions..i should of used the drain plug for the temp port but didnt want the extra hassel during oil changes...

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by 88pagan on 02/02/09 at 17:30:13

Got the adaptor bushing in the mail today. Got all excited, routed my temp gauge, thought I was good to go untillll I realized the gauge I picked up had too big a fitting at the end. So, guess I gotta go find a gauge somewhere with an 1/8" male to fit that adaptor I got. Any ideas?

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by Charon on 02/03/09 at 08:54:00

J C Whitney used to sell a cylinder head temp gauge for Volkswagens. The sender was an item like a spark plug gasket, which was used to replace the gasket on one of the plugs. Seems to me it might mount in place of, or in addition to, the gasket on the oil drain plug and provide a temperature reading. I believe a similar item is still available from aircraft sources. If you got two, you could also have cylinder head temperature. If I remember correctly it was a thermocouple type device and did not require external power, unless it had a lighted dial. True, it would not be immersed in the oil, but the aluminum engine case is a pretty good heat conductor.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by mpescatori on 02/03/09 at 09:44:10

604B42514C4D230 wrote:

Yes, I remember something like that for competition Fiat 500s...

I believe it was called a "pyrometer", and read the combustion chamber temperature...
...in fact, it could read as high as 400'C !!! :o

I'll see what the guys at Suzuki say tomorrow... I'll show them my bits ...

:-?
:o
;D

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by Charon on 02/03/09 at 15:03:13

Out of curiosity I did a Google search on "cht gauge". One of the sites I indirectly found is www.dakotadigital.com. They have some interesting, although pricey, items. Be it noted I have no financial interest in them.

Title: Re: OIL TEMP / PRESSURE GAUGE
Post by savagedml on 02/04/09 at 07:39:28

http://www.bikercom.com/shop/index.php?page=pp_producto.php&md=0&ref=GZ-130000

This is the gauge that I have on my '03 Savage. I don't have the mechanical knowledge many have on this site, but I like "bells and whistles" and thought this was an easy mod.