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Message started by Zylar on 01/26/09 at 18:43:54

Title: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/26/09 at 18:43:54

Hi all! I've been lurking for a while, thanks for all the tips and info.

My mom has a '98 savage and I have an '01. Great bikes!

Moms currently won't start thought :'(

History: '98, bought used with ~8000 miles, aftermarket exhaust and maybe more, like carb work. Always been hard to start/warm-up. Started acting worse, carb often flooded/leaking gas and sometimes requiring a rap or 2 on the bowl. Sat for ~ 2 weeks and then wouldn't start at all.

Recently divorced, I have much more free time to help out my mom, so I decided it would be nice to rebuild the carb together. I had tinkered on cars for years, and had a Clymers for our bike, looked pretty simple. Tore it down, soaked it, blew it out, replaced the float valve and seat, reassembled.

Bike still won't start. Tried PRI, no help. Petc0ck seems to be working, good flow on PRI, stops on any other. Checked spark & gap, both ok. Trickle charged over night, plus tried booster. Blew out air filter w/ compressed air. Dropped bowl, was full of gas and everything seemed proper (and never overflows like before?).

A few times it did start and ran for about 15 seconds, with choke out all the way and no throttle, and then would die. If I immediately tried to start it again, it wouldn't. If I waited like 30 seconds, it would start right up and run for 15 again before dying. But now it won't even do that.

Just looking for some advise on what to try next.

Edit: also meant to ask, could I just swap carbs between the bikes for testing?

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 01/26/09 at 20:37:33

yes you can swap carbs

you did what I would do.

swap batteries too, I suspect a dead cell. or push start.

bike is voltage sensitive, one dead cell is ok for running the starter but not sparking too. can check for spark, if weak then dieing battery.

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/27/09 at 05:45:47

Thanks Verslagen1. I talked to mom this morning and she said she's never replaced teh battery (owned 4+ yrs), so I'm going to swap 'em tonight. Now that I think of, it may have been with the booster that it ran for the 15 secs. I don't have a voltmeter anymore (I'll pick one up), that may have helped troubleshoot.

Thanks again, I'll update tonight.

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/27/09 at 15:01:42

A dead battery is gonna suck a lot o current thru the alternator.

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/27/09 at 15:51:14

Well, it wasn't the battery.

When I pulled the plug, it was black. It's what I expected considering the previous problems, but still seemed to be producing a nice spark in testing. So I'm going to go pick up a plug and see if that helps.

If it doesn't, I'll probably swap the carbs tomorrow in an attempt to isolate the problem. Maybe the earlier carb probs weren't necessarily the culprit for original failure to start.

Any other advise? Thanks!

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/28/09 at 03:59:44

Black plug, first thing is replace the plug. The stock plug is cheap ($2-$4).

It almost sounds like that might get you started..... but once started, you will need to find out why the plug was black. Jet size maybe.....

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/28/09 at 10:19:49

It starts with the new plug!

Runs terrible though, and won't stay running without throttle. Will only start with the booster on, on her old battery. I'll swap batteries again tonight and see if it improves. I'm also going to start over with the idle mix and speed, I'm sure they'll need adjustments with the carb being cleaned.

Then we'll see how the new plug looks, and try to track down the richness.

Compound problems to begin with? Sticking floats/valve, fouled plug, and dying battery? (though I guess they could all be connected too). The sad thing is she had taken to the dealership just a few months before and spent over $400 (and not on tires). Considering she has an old battery and the float valve looked terrible, I'm wondering what they did. Even her air filter was nasty.

Thanks for the tips, and a place to bounce ideas.

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/28/09 at 11:50:33

Ok, got off work a little early and swapped batteries. Runs better, but not good still.

Had to increase idle speed by about 5 full turns (?) to get it to stay running. Also will only run with choke full out, even when warm. Even going in just 1 notch instantly kills it. Seat's still off, so haven't tried it under load. Idle mix was at 2 turns out, 1 full turn in each direction seemingly had no effect so left it where it was (I'll try more later).

When mom was putting the carb back together, I was distracted and she first put the floats in upside down (I was just supervising during the rebuild). I noticed when she was having problems getting the bowl back on. Is it possible she may have bent the float tabs enough that it would make it so lean that it wouldn't run without choke? She knows better than to try and force stuff, so I didn't measure the float distance, and now wish I had just for peace of mind.

What else might make it so lean? Air leak somewhere maybe?

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by verslagen1 on 01/28/09 at 12:59:43

easy way to check float level. Do you have a drain nipple on the bottom of the carb? put a length of clear tubing on and hold it up along side of the carb. open the drain and gas should come up to the level inside the bowl. Hold the bike level. Put the petcock on prime. The level should come up to the top of the bowl gasket.

Title: Re: Won't start
Post by Zylar on 01/28/09 at 14:18:16

Cool, nice to know. I dropped the bowl and just tried to measure as well as possible, without the carb being upside down. I adjusted by 2mm (opposite the direction of force on upside down floats applied by bowl in previous error).

Then, with some more tuning, it was running without choke! It still wasn't running great (missing and backfiring a bit), but it was running. Put the seat back on and took it for a quick spin around the block. About half way around it really picked up some pep. Upon pulling back into the drive it was idling way too fast, turned it back 3 full turns after already having backed off some earlier. Much less missing and backfiring now, so looking better!

Going to do some more tuning with the idle mix & speed, recheck the plug after a few more miles and see where she's at. Probably also recheck float level with Verslagen's tip, if I can find some clear tube handy.

Thanks again all,

http://w4.bikepics.com/pics/2009%5C01%5C28%5Cbikepics-1553796-320.jpg Mom's is the yellow one :o