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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consistently? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1232220354 Message started by Southpaw on 01/17/09 at 11:25:54 |
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Title: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consistently? Post by Southpaw on 01/17/09 at 11:25:54 I was talking to the parts dept / sevice tech at the local Suzukl dealership (who is a former Savage owner, and one of the more practical and approachable guys I've found) and mentioned wanting to ride out of state to do some longer runs, and some of the mods I found on this site to accommodate the attempts. (Might still put a front fork brace on before spring) The one thing he cautioned me about was driving more than 45 minutes to an hour in the 70 to 80+ MHP range in summer. He said he really didn't think the bike was designed for it, due to the air cooled engine and the way the powerband etc. was designed. He said it wasn't that it couldn't be done on occasion, but he thought that making a habit of it would considerably shorten the life of the motor considering the heat the prolonged higher RPM would create versus the amount the fins could dissapate at the same speed. I don't think he was trying to sell me something higher end as much as trying to look out for me and asking me if I'd considered all the pros and cons of pushing the bikes limits and breaking down far from home. I know I've read a lot of you talk about running highway speeds so I know it can be done, but what are your opinions on what he's saying. I'm certainly not a high tech person, but I'm not a total rookie either. Obviously keeping the oil changed, using the right oil for conditions and doing all the other maintenance is crucial to this equation. Is a chain conversion a necessity to this use? (obvious change in toque/rpm ratios) What else separates the county road - 60 MPH bike from those that run the slabs consistently? I've probably pushed every piece of equipment I've ever owned past its intended use on accasion when need or opportunity arose (From pickup truck to weed wacker, I think its just in our nature) and I'll probably still make at least ONE big run this year just to say I did it...but am I setting myself up for problems down the road? We have a lot of experienced riders on this site, and I respect your opinions. It wouldn't surprise me to have some disagreement on this. It's the first time I've heard this concern voiced, and I'm curious about your thoughts. From my point of view asking this question is just a case of, as Dirty Harry used to say, " A man's got to know his limitations..." :-? |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/09 at 12:48:34 I think if I was gonna run it that hard I would put an oil cooler on it. That way there is more oil in it to take the beating & the oil stays cooler & helps keep the engine cooler. A temperature gauge for the oil returning from the cooler maybe? Slow down once in a while? ( Perish the thought!) |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by grandpa on 01/17/09 at 12:52:46 I've put about 13,000 miles on my '06 with about 50-50 freeway/city commuting. On the freeway it's between 65 and 75. I've got a lrger rear tire which has put the 'sweet spot' as far as vibration etc right on 70 mph. "Suzi" cruizes just like she's made for it. Paladin on the sight here has run from southern California to Oklahoma (I think it was) and back. Being air cooled is really not a factor so long as it gets air. I would worry about vibration and wind before I would the bike. Just my two cents worth. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by verslagen1 on 01/17/09 at 13:43:57 I make freeway run daily and in the summer it will hit 110°F If you get off the freeway after running all the way at 70mph, the heat comming off of the cylinder is pretty much normal. But if you get stopped by a long light, you'll feel the heat increase to the point that you can't bear to put your legs on the pegs anymore. So my advice would be to keep moving until it cools down some. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Oldfeller on 01/17/09 at 13:50:29 Heat in an engine can lead to oil failures. Cheapest insurance against oil failures is to use a synthetic oil that isn't threatened by the engine heats our bikes can reach. Too many of us run interstates at 80mph to say it can't be done. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Southpaw on 01/17/09 at 14:15:34 It was an unusual statement from a usually reliable source. Since I don't "usually" ride that fast for that long, the thought had never occurred to me. On one side, the argument made sense, but on the other, I was sure there were quite a few riders from this site that freeway commute. I just didn't recall how fast for how long. Also gotta factor in that just because some people do something doesn't make it the right choice, otherwise we wouldn't all be cringing at the number of cagers with cell phones glued to their ear! Hence the caveat about respecting the tech contributors on this site. The mechanic might know the dealership's line on this, but the guys on this site live and breathe the Savage specifically. That carries a little more weight with me! |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by SavRon on 01/17/09 at 14:46:30 With all the posts cropping up recently, including this one about whether the Savage 650 engine can sustain highway speeds over an extended period of time and distance,,, ie. highway/interstate travel.... Why not contact Suzuki directly and ask them what the capabilities and extreme operating range of this engine is ???? I mean, after all, they have been building the 650 for the Savage for over 20 years, they obviously have done extensive Research and Development on this motor. One would think they put these bikes through some pretty harsh tests, and would know. Its a testement that several members on this Forum and countless other Savage owners around the world have probably run these bikes hard, so it can be done. Maybe an email would get a response to satisfy our curiousity on this subject. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by 87SavageBobber on 01/17/09 at 15:05:00 I've wondered the same thing. Some motors are built for higher RPM's, but I don't think the Savage motor is built for those 13,000 RPM redlines... I think of the Savage motor along the same lines as a car. Maybe a 7,000 RPM redline... I don't know the specifics, I just know that for me, cruising at 70 MPH is a little sketchy. On a straightaway, I might hit 80, but I'm quickly bringing it back down to 65 or 70. I've taken hour long cruises at 65-70, but I don't like it, and I don't think my Savage does either... Adam |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/17/09 at 15:28:32 I dont think it has the ability to redline on level ground. Maybe one of these guys who have ported & polished the head, tuned exhaust & jetted it Juuust so could make it hurt itself by over revving, but I dont think mine would. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Gary On A Savage on 01/17/09 at 15:51:59 455A5C5B4641704070485A561D2F0 wrote:
Fastest I could get mine up to in 5th was about 85. Not sure what the rpm's are, but the aerodynamics definitely keep it from redlining. I put a chain mod on with a smaller rear gear. I run the freeway around 3500 rpms. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by LANCER on 01/17/09 at 17:08:35 A stock engine on level ground in 5th gear will not go near the 6500 rpm redline, and barely approaches it in 4th, but throw in a performance cam and carb and a really good flowing exhaust and it does become possible. I have over-reved mine before; in the 7500+ rpm range. Keep in mind that I saw the needle go there on an inexpensive model tach, and I assume that the tach was probably lagging slightly so that it may be that the engine got close to 8000rpm. The engine sound at that level is rather frightening and does cause the heart to pause in beating as you wait to hear if the engine will continue to make normal running sounds afterward. At the time this happened eveything seemed to be working normally afterward; idle was still smooth and normal, power was still there, sound was good, continued to run normally thereafter. However, I did finally find one thing was not quite normal. When the engine was taken apart after a few years I found that the lobe surface on the camshaft had some slight indentations. They were not gouges in the metal, but the indent area was as if the metal had been compressed down. The surface of the hard weld done on the performance camshafts from Webcam held up under the extreme pressure from the rockers but the stock metal beneath the hard weld surface was compressed slightly. I sent the cam back to Webcam and they redid it for me for a nominal fee.. Anyway, point is that extremely high rpm will do some damage (oh, the end of the rockers that contact the cam lobes were worn a bit as well...but not extreme) to the top end but the rest of the engine is still fine. There is no evidense of any damage to cylinder, piston, rod or crank & bearings. The engine is pretty darn tough. It is best to keep it down to the 6500 redline of course which keeps things well inside the safety zone. Besides, an engine with a stock cam will have the power drop off going over 5000 rpm and go flat after 6000. I never had any overheating problems at highway speeds; cruising in the 70-80 mph range for hundreds of miles during the summer. Like others have mentioned the heat does become more noticeable when just sitting in traffic. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Paladin. on 01/17/09 at 18:20:34 Redline is 6500 rpm, 5300 rpm on a stock bike is 81 mph. Not straining the engine at all. Drop to 5000 rpms and you are cruising at 77 mph which is passing most interstate traffic. 70 is about right, and is only 4580 rpm. I rode L.A. to OKC in 2.5 days, I-40, kept up with traffic, warm enough that I was mostly riding in a t-shirt, thank you SPF-45. That was a year and a half ago, if I hurt the bike it hasn't manifested yet. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by SV og LS on 01/18/09 at 03:20:49 4B46494442551510270 wrote:
? Limiter cuts the spark at slightly above 6500. Is it possible your tach reads a bit hot? |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by dasch on 01/18/09 at 04:01:38 Are you sure there is a limiter? I am not, at least on older models. Anyhow, LS is a 650, not a moped! Of course it can sustain 75mph, if guy holding the bars can sustain 75. Shop wants to sell you bigger, more expensive bike, that's normal, considering current trends of 1.5 and 1.6 liter engine on motorcycles. 20 yrs ago you couldn't find a bike with more than 1.2 liter, and good old Savage was there, right in the middle of the pack with 650, being sold as quite cool for anything, let alone freeway commuting. Now it's considered small. Funny world. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by LANCER on 01/18/09 at 04:22:34 32370E062D32610 wrote:
? Limiter cuts the spark at slightly above 6500. Is it possible your tach reads a bit hot? [/quote] If there is actually a limiter installed then the one on mine is inoperative. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by 87SavageBobber on 01/18/09 at 10:10:28 65545954515C5B350 wrote:
Somebody else had mentioned you did this trek. It's good to know that everything is still fine after such a long haul. Guess I don't really need to be worried about keeping it at 70 after all... One thing I did notice about long trips, every now and then it would stick... After cruising at 65, I would try to increase speed to make up any difference between me and the rest of the group and the engine would lag. I would have to give it gas a few times, trying to fix the problem, which I still don't know what it was. I cleaned the carb later and did a stage 2 rebuild kit, which I think helped because it only did that once on my next trip. Haven't had it out for any distance since then though. Looking forward to the summer and some cruises to Ocean City. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by SV og LS on 01/18/09 at 10:40:33 6A67686563743431060 wrote:
Our '93-'94 engined Savage hits 'something' through 1st to 4th. I always thought it valve floated, when dynoed it did the same thing and went rich above 6500 rpm. Recently I've mailed with a guy whose 1992 Savage, fastest that I know of, hits the limiter at 162 kph (not 164 as I've said earlier in another thread) and goes rich until about 145 kph when it gets spark again so there's an ignition limiter. Your bike just revs above 7k without stuttering or anything? |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by serowbot on 01/18/09 at 11:00:45 I've never felt a limiter in the Savage, and I've scared myself a couple of times revving up in lower gears,...Oops!.... Rode a Honda Shadow 750 a while back, and was hitting the limiter almost every shift on hard acceleration.... |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by SV og LS on 01/18/09 at 11:49:11 2D3B2C31293C312A5E0 wrote:
I don't find the limiter accidentally (or nowadays intentionally) as it happens far beyond power peak and needs a bit of effort. After buying the bike I assumed all bikes with pointless ignitions have rev limiters so I just kept it wide open in lower gears to find one :) But there's no other explanation for the mate's bike's top speed behavior than a limiter cutting a spark for a moment. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by dasch on 01/18/09 at 12:27:23 That makes sence. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by sluggo on 01/18/09 at 13:19:10 this is all i've got to add, i got a ticket for doing 80, on my way to pay a ticket for going 80. nufff said... |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Toymaker on 01/18/09 at 13:23:06 Well I do know a few of us last summer ran up I40 doing 80+...and still had throttle to spare....didn't we OF and Ed.L? Lancer doesn't count because he was on that H_D thingy. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/18/09 at 14:37:52 87 Savage Bobber, if you dial on the beans & nothing happens, either a vacuum issue or a stuck slide. The description of the problem says stuck slide. Its like handling a halogen light bulb, fingerprints are not good. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by sluggo on 01/18/09 at 17:20:40 i get slide problems a times... i once completed a nine car pass only to have the slide stick. bike slowed to about 25. thay all smirked when them passed me b ack.. i yanked the carb. cleaned it up and was on my way. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by LANCER on 01/18/09 at 17:47:53 I 03063F371C03500 wrote:
Our '93-'94 engined Savage hits 'something' through 1st to 4th. I always thought it valve floated, when dynoed it did the same thing and went rich above 6500 rpm. Recently I've mailed with a guy whose 1992 Savage, fastest that I know of, hits the limiter at 162 kph (not 164 as I've said earlier in another thread) and goes rich until about 145 kph when it gets spark again so there's an ignition limiter. Your bike just revs above 7k without stuttering or anything? [/quote] I have noticed no sputtering at all in the higher rev's. Besides the very high spurts mentioned I have been in the 6500-7000 range several times, and all was well and smooth. There was no point in continuing going that high though because there was no power benefit and the risk of engine stress. The midrange grind of the original performance cam runs strong up to its peak at about 5500 and then the power increase slows until 6500. After that there is no gain. I find the best time/speed performance when shifting as the tach swings past 5500, which makes the actual shift from one gear to another at about 5700-5800 rpm. The 4500-5500 range is the sweet spot. The newer and slightly higher performance cam grind bumps the power range up slightly; 500-1000 rpm. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by 87SavageBobber on 01/18/09 at 17:52:18 Haha... I would have given you that same stupid smirk... That's funny though. I'm not sure what the deal is, but I'm hoping it's fixed now. I haven't had it out for a good test run since then. I did take it out the other day just to make sure it still ran and everything. If tomorrow is nice (which I don't think it's going to be) I might go for a ride. We'll see what happens. I think it's supposed to snow though. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Hard Corps on 01/23/09 at 08:24:00 467A60617D657462150 wrote:
I drove mine all summer long on 2-4 hour trips at 65-75 running synthetic oil and never had any problems. You'll get numbbutt before the engine has trouble. The only time the engine got really hot was on a trip where after two-hours at 70mph I got stuck in the city's bumper to bumper traffice, power-walking the poor beast for 45 minutes. I thought my jeans were going to catch fire from the heat. My $.02. |
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Title: Re: Question about 70-80 MPH on a Savage consisten Post by Jack_650 on 01/23/09 at 09:20:08 I bought my 2000 used with 9k miles on it. It now has two long haul seasons and this last summer where I didn't go anywhere to speak of. I've run two 4k+ mile round trips to Miami, FL from southern MN in August and one 25k+ mile trek to and from SC from same. These were done where the temps got up around a hundred degrees. And a few of those days were over 600 miles. I ran interstate a lot due to time limitations and was often sitting at 70-75 mph with bumps up to pass. The bike was loaded with me (180 #) and at least another 80-100 lbs of gear hanging on the bike. I run synthetic oils for the most part, often changing the filter once between oil changes. Never had a bit of over heating problems as far as I could tell, even in hour long rush hour sessions going past that big arch there somewhere in mid-America. I've had the side off the engine and, aside from the usual cam chain stretch I've seen no ill effects from racking up the high speed miles. The inside of the motor looks as clean as the ones you guys take pictures of. My experiences tell me that if you want to run the bike, run the bike. But then what do I know. I'm a trumpet player. Jack |
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