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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Shutting off......pleaase help /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1231124524 Message started by Tony01 on 01/04/09 at 19:02:04 |
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Title: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/04/09 at 19:02:04 I am the proud owner of a 2001 with 8500 miles, I'm running a gutted dyna muffler and I rejetted the carb properly (lancer's kit ;) ). Make no mistakes my little savage runs like a bat out of hell and idles really smooth at around 1200rpm , but If I apply the brake hard while running ( like when you see the traffic light changing from green to yellow) it bogs down and shuts off. Any ideas (It's been doing this since the time I bought it about a year ago). Thanks for your help. TOny. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/04/09 at 19:08:08 you gotta turn in your idle mixture screw. You are definitely idling to low. Used to happen to me. Especially on cold mornings. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by T Mack 1 on 01/04/09 at 19:48:04 If you don't have access to a tach, have a shop set it. Should be in the 1100 to 1200 rpm range when warmed up. The engine is a low oil pressure engine (7-10 psig @3000 rpm) so too low on the idle is not too good, even though it sounds cool. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/09 at 09:06:38 Pull in clutch [smiley=evil.gif] Does sound like your idle is just abit low, not uncommon for the rpms to drop 2 or 300 upon a sudden shut off. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/05/09 at 09:42:29 I used to kill mine the same way. Raised the idle & now I can make it stumble a little sometimes. Maybe I need to jack the idle up more? Pretty sure its over 1000RPM, but havent used a tach. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/05/09 at 09:51:38 There is a how to thread for idle mixture screw. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by SavRon on 01/05/09 at 10:07:38 This may help. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1221818822 |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/05/09 at 11:41:40 022C21232B132136212725400 wrote:
That is a fuel mixture how to not the idle mixture which is on the left side lol |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by verslagen1 on 01/05/09 at 11:49:15 73786A79707D6F7F1C0 wrote:
That is a fuel mixture how to not the idle mixture which is on the left side lol[/quote] Well if you're gonna use the same terms for both sides you're gonna confuse the newby Right side, pilot mixture screw (for the Kapows) Left side, idle speed screw (thumb knob for rpm) |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/05/09 at 12:01:12 7A697E7F606D6B69623D0C0 wrote:
That is a fuel mixture how to not the idle mixture which is on the left side lol[/quote] Well if you're gonna use the same terms for both sides you're gonna confuse the newby Right side, pilot mixture screw (for the Kapows) Left side, idle speed screw (thumb knob for rpm)[/quote] I have been humbled. thanks!!! |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by ero4444 on 01/05/09 at 14:34:40 I drilled and pulled out the brass plug recently and adjusted the idle mix screw and I suggest you cover the starter and any nooks where the brass shavings will fall. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/05/09 at 15:01:00 Thanks for the replies, I'll try raising the rpm's. Tony. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by AzDon on 01/05/09 at 18:52:50 073C3D2A6362530 wrote:
Did I read this post correctly? :-? If I was jammin toward a signal that changed suddenly and I jumped the brakes without pulling the clutch in.... I would EXPECT the engine to bog and stall same as any other vehicle that uses a clutch for engagement.... |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/05/09 at 20:27:46 1B201E35345A0 wrote:
Did I read this post correctly? :-? If I was jammin toward a signal that changed suddenly and I jumped the brakes without pulling the clutch in.... I would EXPECT the engine to bog and stall same as any other vehicle that uses a clutch for engagement.... [/quote] When I apply the brakes I also pull the clutch in ,but the bike kind of hesitates, bogs down and dies. Tony. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Reelthing on 01/05/09 at 21:24:52 But only does this on rapid stop? - could be a float level issue.... on the idle - if you do not have a tach (although you do mention 1200 rpm) a reasonable way to get it fairly close on this pair of mine - one with a tach one with out - is to watch the head light - if it dims at idle your too low - rev a bit a couple times and let it idle down up the idle a bit until the light stays the same right/left? depends on where your standing - port and starboard is the light and the way |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/05/09 at 21:28:21 But only does this on rapid stop? - could be a float level issue.... ok, you got it that's my problem it only happens on rapid stop. I'd like to explore the float level issue, what should i look for? Tony. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Reelthing on 01/05/09 at 21:35:31 Which carb bowl is on a 2001 - it have a drain opening screw on the side and a drain pipe out the bottom of the bowl - or just a big drain plug on the bottom of the bowl? |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Reelthing on 01/05/09 at 21:47:51 by the way - when you re-jetted the carb what did you change - as in did you change the pilot jet? and was the bike doing this before the jet change? |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/06/09 at 04:52:23 192E2E273F2322252C4B0 wrote:
I changed the main and the pilot jets also I'm running 1/3 of the white spacer, it has a drain opening screw on the side and a drain pipe out the bottom of the bowl and yes it was doing it before the new jets. Tony. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by T Mack 1 on 01/06/09 at 08:16:45 It could also be the carb slide hanging a little. When you changed the spacer, how did it look???? |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by verslagen1 on 01/06/09 at 08:54:44 443D5D71737B21100 wrote:
Don't think it's a sticky slide, that would cause lag in throttle change. As in hesitate to accel and fast idle, slowly coming down. Not that a good carb clean wouldn't fix his problem. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Stimpy on 01/06/09 at 11:06:12 ...mmmm, are you running your gas in the "ON" position? Try running it in "PRI" just to see what happens. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Charon on 01/06/09 at 11:38:24 What I believe is happening is that the fuel in the float bowl is "surging" forward with the combination of nose dive and braking. That changes the fuel level at the jets, and causes the mixture to be incorrect and the engine to die briefly. It is a problem common to carbureted engines with float bowl carburetors. There are some design features intended to minimize it, such as positioning the jets as near the center of the float bowl as possible, but the problem still exists. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Tony01 on 01/06/09 at 15:07:47 1F343D2E33325C0 wrote:
I believe you are right on the money, that's exactly what's happening to my bike now I need to know how to fix or reduce the problem. TOny. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Charon on 01/06/09 at 15:45:50 As a practical matter, there is no way to fix the problem. You can turn up the idle, which will leave the engine spinning faster and may give it time to recover from the stumble before it stalls. That's a work-around, not a fix. The only other solution is fuel injection. Or you could brake less violently to reduce the slosh. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Reelthing on 01/06/09 at 15:57:14 ok you have the easy carb to check the fuel level on - pick up some clear gas proof tube that will fit over the carb drain - run the tube up above the carb say to the seat - open the drain screw level the bike and you can see how high up the float bowl the fuel goes before the float shuts it off - this fuel height is adjusted by very slight bending of the tab the float needle attaches to or even the float arms if your real careful - but first see where the level is now - so I assume you replaced the carb bowl screws with stainless allen head to make the drop'n of the bowl easy - when I get back to the house I'll gather up the shop manual that tells us the expected float/fuel height. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/06/09 at 18:41:04 we are getting a little too scientific with this carb thing lol. That savage is not that complicated is it? Just drain the bowl, turn to PRI, start her up and run her. Thats what I did after jetting. Anyways, watch my bike not start when spring comes around lol. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by T Mack 1 on 01/06/09 at 19:36:29 464D5F4C45485A4A290 wrote:
Your spring????? ..... you mean June ;D ;D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The surge theroy makes a bit of sense since the pilot (low speed) jet is forward of the center of the carb....... in other words.... Off the throttle and it gets a squirt of gas when it's not ready for it.... and a little higher Idel would give you a touch more air to absord the extra gas..... |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Digger on 01/06/09 at 19:43:11 FWIW, my 1981 Mazda GLC (carbureted) had a special idle-up diaphragm mounted on the side of the carb that would bump the idle up during hard right turns. I had to replace it once because the engine was dying in hard right turns. Charon is right, I believe. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by odvelasc on 01/06/09 at 19:43:42 077E1E32303862530 wrote:
Your spring????? ..... you mean June ;D ;D ----------------------------------------------------------------------- The surge theroy makes a bit of sense since the pilot (low speed) jet is forward of the center of the carb....... in other words.... Off the throttle and it gets a squirt of gas when it's not ready for it.... and a little higher Idel would give you a touch more air to absord the extra gas..... [/quote] Lol. yeah we ususally start getting the teepee tents out at the end of march after the last snowfall. Thats when the igloos start melting lol. If the snow banks on the side of the roads and peoples front lawns are only 4 ft high as opposed to 15 ft, people usually start riding. ;D |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/07/09 at 04:07:50 If I was up there & it got good enough to ride. I Would. And the needle on the compass would be ( & Stay) pointed South. YIKES! Too cold up there. Hope she starts for ya. I like Charon's explanation. |
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Title: Re: Shutting off......pleaase help Post by Reelthing on 01/07/09 at 09:36:02 well, one can just live with it or try to reduce the surge effect - in this case the fuel level may flat be too high - if so the sudden fuel surge would be magnified - of course you don't want it too low or she'll sputter in a curve if leaned well over - hummm - didn't you guys ever work with minimalist carb before? |
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