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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnMORE /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1230983538 Message started by Oldfeller on 01/03/09 at 03:52:18 |
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Title: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnMORE Post by Oldfeller on 01/03/09 at 03:52:18 This post is a mess. This entire thread is a mess. I thought I had 100% nonconforming friction disks from Parts N More. In fact only the single small disk was non-conforming (grossly under print thickness on the fiber part and incorrect on just about every other circular and radial claw dimension as well). What we do have is a Clymer book error again. This will be all explained later on by Verslagen. Originally, I said don't buy disks from Parts n More, now I say be cautious when buying disks from them. Always measure what you get as they CAN (and did) send me one (1) incorrect small disk. Now --- read the thread and watch us slowly fumble over yet another stupid unnecessary Clymer book error (which has since been added to the Known Errors Tech posting). Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: $42 Friction Disks Post by verslagen1 on 01/03/09 at 14:56:25 The gasket set is made by athena in italy. Can be found on fleabay for much less. And I found a SRC81 for less than 100 ;D |
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Title: Re: $42 Friction Disks Post by Oldfeller on 01/04/09 at 03:44:49 Sounds like you are going kevlar for your next clutch. Tell us if it lasts over twice to three times as long. (in about what, 15-20 more years?) |
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Title: Re: $42 Friction Disks Post by Toymaker on 01/04/09 at 06:37:50 I can get EBC disks and springs for 58. I think it is pretty close to the best prices. |
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Title: Re: $42 Friction Disks Post by Oldfeller on 01/04/09 at 14:16:23 $42 shipped to your door beats $58 (shipped?) |
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Title: Re: $42 Friction Disks Post by verslagen1 on 01/07/09 at 21:40:36 I got the clutch kit. 7 disks and 6 springs. I wonder if these springs would work in the savage if I cut'em down? [smiley=evil.gif] Hmmmm... I wonder if a SV650 clutch pack would fit in? [smiley=evil.gif] [smiley=evil.gif] anybody want to buy a disk? ;D |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/09/09 at 15:08:07 WARNING WARNING We were searching for the world's cheapest clutch job. What we found was a net vendor who uses substituted friction disks to cover a "wide range of bikes", PLATES THAT DO NOT EVEN MEET THE "worn out" SERVICE SPECS FOR USE IN A LS650 SAVAGE. The incorrectly substituted plates came from: $42 shipped at Parts N More !! NON-FUNCTIONAL -- DO NOT ORDER !! If you make the mistake of ordering disks from Parts n More you will get friction disks that fall completely BELOW the new LS 650 Savage spec thickness range (and below the total worn-out plate service spec range for an LS 650). ============= Warning -- the substitution listing that said a SV650 plate set was "same as" the Savage came from this same vendor -- Please check any plates you may have ordered to see if they actually fall inside the Savage spec ranges !!! single end plate should be 2.92mm-3.08mm new -- is 2.84mm thick (wear limit is 2.62mm) 5 ea plates should be 3.45mm-3.55mm new -- is 3.03mm thick (wear limit is 3.15mm -- these plates came in new below the service wear out limit) ============= Who has a real Savage shop manual? Can you verify these spec and wear limits to make sure the Clymer book has it right? No wonder folks aren't getting "good service" from some replacement clutch packs !!! Have they been measuring the new stuff they have been getting ??? |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/09 at 16:25:13 Possible to stack another pair in & get a clutch pack out of the deal? |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/09/09 at 16:33:52 Justin, you happen to have a spare bare steel friction disk running around to contribute to trying to answer that question? .42mm undersized per disk x 5 = 2.10mm lost to the total pack height. Hmmmm ... that won't cover the extra friction disk much less the matching steel disk that would be needed. I would think "not" ... Plus I already wrote the nasty gram asking for return authorization. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Reelthing on 01/09/09 at 18:32:56 64474F4D4E47474E592B0 wrote:
Why? |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by smokin_blue on 01/09/09 at 18:52:06 7F5C5456555C5C5542300 wrote:
OK SUZUKI FACTORY MANUAL..... corks are NO 1. 2.92-3.08mm with a limit of 2.62mm and No2 are 3.45-3.55 with a limit of 3.15mm |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/09 at 19:04:44 7344444D5549484F46210 wrote:
Why?[/quote] Dude! Anyone can spend the Big $$$ & do the job, but getting a good job done for the least $$$ is a thrill. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by verslagen1 on 01/09/09 at 19:23:27 7E5D5557545D5D5443310 wrote:
OK, whipped out my printed in '86 manual, and it says you got it backwards. 5x plates should be 2.92mm-3.08mm (wear limit is 2.62mm) 1x plate should be 3.45mm-3.55mm (wear limit is 3.15mm) This matches up with the plates I got from EBC. Also matches up with a set from barnett. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by smokin_blue on 01/09/09 at 19:32:37 Ok Ver-man Get a load of this!!! Go to www.ronayers.com Look up your part number and then run a "where used" report on them. Thank you suzuki these are standard in a huge number of bikes. Look them up but for example.... Steels - 86-2007 savage, 88-91 intruder 750, 90-91 VX800, 90-95 DR650, 92-98 VS800 and VX800, 97-98 VZ marauder, 99 GZ 250 Now Corks - 86+ savage, 86-88 GSXR-750!!! (performace discs have to be somewhere for that bike!), 88 VS750 , 88 Katana, GS500, Bandit 600's This just a few...run the search for the full list! Go find those high perf clutch packs! |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by verslagen1 on 01/09/09 at 19:55:57 Hey Smokin', I don't have to look, I got'em. The 1st set from barnett... I got last year... somebody was unloading them... I remember something like $35 I thought they were cork, so I bought a kevlar set from EBC. Darn if they ain't the same color. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Reelthing on 01/09/09 at 20:49:37 293630372A2D1C2C1C24363A71430 wrote:
Why?[/quote] Dude! Anyone can spend the Big $$$ & do the job, but getting a good job done for the least $$$ is a thrill. [/quote] I know but unless you just like pulling the basket out of there go for some quality parts... heck botch up one gasket over the cheap plates and you've burned most of the difference |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/09/09 at 22:36:06 Ahhh, yea,, hadnt thot that far into it. I must be tired. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/10/09 at 02:53:04 Low cost good parts are worth investigating. Sometimes it doesn't work out, then you tell everybody to stay away. But somebody has to try it out to find out. If the Clymer information is backwards again (which is why I asked) then this clutch pack is still wrong, but in a different way. =========================== Verslagen's data runs like this: "OK, whipped out my printed in '86 manual, and it says you got it backwards. 5x plates should be 2.92mm-3.08mm (wear limit is 2.62mm) 1x plate should be 3.45mm-3.55mm (wear limit is 3.15mm) This matches up with the plates I got from EBC. Also matches up with a set from barnett." ============================ My 5x plates are 3.02mm to 3.05" which puts them print nominal to that Verslagy spec. My 1x plate is 2.85mm which is way way way undersized. ============================ Verslagen, I pulled my e-copy of the SV650 factory service manual (them squid boys don't mess around, when they rip, they rip the actual factory stuff) and it says your EBC kelar plates should be .... #1 plate should be 2.92mm-3.08mm (wear limit is 2.62mm) #2 plate should be 3.45mm-3.55mm (wear limit is 3.15mm) Now here's what's funky -- unless you have the factory exploded diagram micro-fische you don't know what #1 plate is and what is #2 plate so this SV 650 data is useless to help me with my problem. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/10/09 at 03:28:41 Dudes, we gots us a disagreement of the spec books again. And I don't know who is right .... The Clymer book is clear as to what it calls #1 and #2 clutch disks -- page 150 shows a very pretty exploded diagram that calls out that shot pretty clearly. #1 is the one little thin clutch disk. #2 is the larger 5 pack disk. Table 1 on page 163 uses these designations to call out the single little thin disk as being #1 and the larger thicker 5 pack disks to be #2 ==================== SV650 factory manual says larger thicker disk is #2 disk (but shows no pic to back that up) ==================== SmokinBlue agrees with this Clymer and SV650 information from his factory manual ==================== Verslagen says we are all backwards, he checked a '86 manual and also checked some EBC and Barnett clutch plates. BUT .... is his #1 and #2 designation simply different in his literature from what it is in ours? Is that #1 #2 designation the key to this mystery? The key to this mystery is to check your factory book carefully to see exactly what your book calls plate #1 and plate #2. In clarifying this mystery let's refer to them as the single front plate and the main 5 pack plates so we can keep our verbal flow discussion straight since the undefined #1 and #2 designations may be what is fouling us up. Please check your factory books again. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by smokin_blue on 01/10/09 at 05:27:39 OK Suzuki Factory Manual: Front plate is #2 and it looks like one of them Back plates are #1 and it looks like 5 of them To be celar the back plates are in deep in the basket and the front plate is closest to the pressure plate Keep in mind if you glance at a diagram in the factory manual they have the clutch laid out looking from the engine side out. Opposite the way you normally see it on the bike. You are looking at the back side of the basket. Also, just to try to be complete the wear limit on the claw width is 15.0mm on #1 and 15.1mm on #2. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Toymaker on 01/10/09 at 05:43:12 ok guys...I am a dolt. If I am putting the clutch pack together....which one goes in FIRST. (disk 1 or 2)?...and which one goes in LAST(1 or 2) according to the mighty manual? Sorry...I just am lost here. T :o |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/09 at 09:18:20 http://verslagen.savageriders.com/images/ClutchExploded.jpg http://verslagen.savageriders.com/images/ClutchPlateDims.jpg Direct from an '86 SSM for a LS650. OK, working from the clutch basket, item 14 (the round thingy that looks like someones crown) Item 12 (aka plate 1, skinny plate) goes on 1st. Followed by 4 others. Then item 10 (aka plate 2, fat plate) goes on last. And the wave washer sits inside it. And checked it against an '86-'88 Clymer, and has them identified backwards in the exploded diagram. Another documented error. |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Toymaker on 01/10/09 at 09:52:00 Thank you thank you thank you...now I just have to decide when to do this little job. I have the disks, and am awaiting the gasket. Cheers T :) |
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Title: Re: DON'T BUY FRICTION DISKS FROM PARTS N MORE !!! Post by Oldfeller on 01/10/09 at 13:19:16 Heck, now I gotta go reword my nasty gram because I was half wrong. The only incorrect plate I was shipped was the smaller one --- which is way the heck undersized. Let's see what the boys and girls at parts n more have to say for themselves .... aside from telling me I am an idiot and I can't read my spec book worth doodley. Well, ya gotta be mentally prepared to be wrong occasionally. It is an acquired skill than any married man has practiced enough to get pretty good at it. |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/10/09 at 13:36:58 Is the claw width the width of the part that fits between the spikes on the "crown"? In the specs chart, ther's a Claw Width #1 & a claw width #2,, I don't get it. Yea, O.F., people cant do as much & say as much as you do & not be wr, wr, wro,, Incorrect Once in a while. Your batting average is still enviable, so dont sweat it. |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by clueless on 01/10/09 at 13:56:29 Thanks for the heads up on Clymer's. I thought I was wrong once, but I was mistaken... ;D ;D |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by atgep on 01/10/09 at 19:49:24 I had a bit of a clutch saga........ New to me 86 bike barely running Got running better and clutch is slippin >:( Got disks from local store. I am told the odd disk is not required and sells me 6 of the larger disks. Re assemble and clutch does not release. 4 hrs later figure out problem and install used small disk with the new pack. Clutch still slipping!!!! :( Order new ebc pack and "performance" springs.....a week later....re assemble and clutch still slipping. :( Take back apart......inspect the hell out of the situation. Pressure plate is gouged, steels are blued and the bevel spring is a little outta round. Order pressure plate, steels, oem springs, new bevel spring.........and problem is gone!!!!!!!! I was worried that 18 yrs of aircraft maintenance did not prepare me to maintain a savage. If you are working on an older unknown bike, look very carefully at EVERYTHING. Now I am ;D |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/09 at 23:44:12 Atgep, I hope you've learned that the guy behind the counter usually doesn't know Jack. Tell 'em we've met him, he's usually behind the parts counter at a m/c shop. |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by Oldfeller on 01/12/09 at 16:10:07 Well, don't order the single 39-1202 plate from Parts N More because they admit they have incorrect WRONG plates for the one single thicker plate with the increased ID to accomodate the bevel washer. Now, how in heck they plan to sell clutch plates when they can't get the correct plate dimensions right -- they must be using a CLYMERS manual and a CLYMERS blueprint to spec out their plates !! Sad, but it's true -- this is one really screwed up thread. ========= ========= Hello, I have looked in the stock that is on our shelves and they all measure like the one that was sent to you. Unfortunately I do not have any others that I can send out to you so I will need to refund you. I went ahead and refunded your credit card - this will appear in 5-7 days. You do not need to worry about sending back the incorrect part. I suggest you try and source the plate somewhere else. Regards, PNM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Oldfeller" To: <orders@partsnmore.net> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2009 11:22 AM Subject: Need RMA for one 39-1202 plate on order 65214 > Hello, > > On order 65214 I got what was supposed to be one (1) part number > 39-1202 clutch friction plate (the rest of the order was correct). > The single 39-1202 friction plate shipped with the order is the > wrong diameter inside and out, has the wrong fiber thickness and > has the wrong size and height of mounting claw protrusions to be a > part number 39-1202 friction plate. > > Looks like your 39-1202 stock location has mixed (incorrect) parts in it. > > I need an RMA to return this incorrect plate to you (at your cost > as this is your goof-up -- send me a prepaid shipper). > > I need a correct 39-1202 plate, but I ask specifically that someone > CHECK ALL THE DIMENSIONS of the replacement plate to verify it is > the correct inside and outside diameter and that it has the correct > 3.45mm to 3.55mm fiber thickness and has the correct 15.9mm to 16mm > wide claw protrusion widths and correct protrusion heights before > shipping it. Somebody has to go get a blue print and GO CHECK YOUR > STOCK to sort out the nonconforming items in it. > > If you cannot determine that you have a FULLY CORRECT 39-1202 plate > to send me, credit my charge card for $7.00 and cancel the item. > > Yours, > > Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/12/09 at 21:13:20 I suggest you try and source the plate somewhere else. Translated into English. Go away, leave us alone, we cant help you, you are driving us Krazee! So, does anyone have a motorcycle that would use the part you were sent? |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by Oldfeller on 01/13/09 at 03:09:54 The plate is unidentified at this point in time. Inference is they have a shelf full of them and intend to keep on selling them as their 39-1202 plate. Maybe they are assuming they can claim to an ignorant customer "it fits" and will get away with it more often than not. By the time the guy slams up the recess edges in his steel basket with all the slop and the rest of the stack gets too short, well "it wore out". Ol' Yoda would say "Stupid, that is. Pissed off customers they will be making." If you just stay away from them then you won't have to hassle with them over their "marketing choices". ================== Still, in fairness now that we have a correct spec to measure against there is nothing wrong with their five 39-1204 plates that they shipped. I will buy a top plate from somewhere else. |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by Oldfeller on 01/13/09 at 19:06:02 I ordered a top plate and an extra steel plate and a manual petcock from Ron Ayers. I am now fully equipped to play with my bike next winter when the side cover comes off at "cam chain fiddle time". |
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Title: Re: Be cautious about buying a clutch from PARTSnM Post by justin_o_guy2 on 01/13/09 at 22:18:20 HOT Dang, NOW I know what a Claw is.. thanks guys. |
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