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Message started by DocNeedles on 01/02/09 at 11:13:47

Title: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by DocNeedles on 01/02/09 at 11:13:47

I am getting ready to do my plug /cap leak and in trying to get a silicon sealer the automotive parts store did not have the preferred red high temp silicon sealer so instead I got Permatex Ultra Black maximum oil resistance RTV gasket maker plus I got Permatex Form-A-Gasket sealant just to have on hand in my workshop. Will Ultra Black work OK? I am approaching the moment of truth to do this job, not having a lot of experience doing mechanics.
DocNeedles

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by serowbot on 01/02/09 at 11:47:27

It'll probably do the job,...but you might have to scrap some, to remove it, if you replace it in the future. Hondabond costs more but will come off with ease when you need it too, and it's supposed to be non-corrosive to aluminium.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Paladin. on 01/02/09 at 12:47:05

I'm partial to Permatex® Aviation Form-A-Gasket® No. 3 Sealant (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_Aviation_Form-A-Gasket_No_3_Sealant_a.htm)

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/02/09 at 14:07:47

The plug is very close proximity to the exhaust port. Make sure whatever you use is fairly high temp rated.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Gort on 01/02/09 at 15:12:51

If you go here:

http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1228329607/0#0

you will see that 392F. is about as hot as the area you are dealing with, will get. Its always good to choose a sealant that takes advantage of the latest technology and has a temp rating a good deal higher than your needs. As a sealant ages and as it is exposed to the stress of wide temp variations, it starts to break down. I use this sealant:

http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_sealants/auto_Permatex_1372_High_Temperature_Form-A-Gasket_Sealant.htm

which is rated to 600F.

Perhaps this is all over-kill, but having to do a job over because of material failure, is no fun.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/02/09 at 16:47:47

what do ya guys think about making an aluminum plug and seal it with o-rings?

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Gort on 01/02/09 at 16:55:08

Fantastic idea.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Digger on 01/02/09 at 21:20:50

This stuff has never let me down:

Ultra Copper (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)

I find it pretty easy to remove, too.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Digger on 01/02/09 at 21:22:01

495A4D4C535E585A510E3F0 wrote:

what do ya guys think about making an aluminum plug and seal it with o-rings?

Ver,

After seeing one of your cam chain tensioners, I'm already sold.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by ls650v on 01/03/09 at 06:02:54

I imagine Ultra Black will work ok, but I would not personally use it. If you look at the directions for use in the technical data sheet

http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/82180.pdf

It talks about finger tightening the flange bolts until the material begins to seep out the mating surface, waiting at least 2 hours, and then retorqing at least 1/4 to 1/2 turn. I think this stuff is designed to be used with stamped steel valve covers or oil pans. I'm not sure if it is the best thing to use with a machined surface like our head cover.

I used Ultra Grey six years ago on my Savage head cover and it is still not leaking. I have also used Ultra Copper in a similar application on an ancient Subaru with excellent results. Like Gort mentioned, you do not want to do the job over. If you have not opened the package, take it back to the auto parts store. Just my 2 cents worth.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Rogue_Cheddar on 01/03/09 at 11:33:13

012C22222037450 wrote:

Digger, are you using this stuff without any gasket paper at all?

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Digger on 01/03/09 at 17:34:34

Hi Rogue,

If a gasket is called for, I use a gasket. In that case, I do not generally use a sealant (unless there are sharp, inside corners to fill).

For the head cover on our bikes, I use just the Ultra Copper. There is no gasket used for the head cover on my bike (see signature). I'm not sure about the other years of LS models.

IHTH!

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/04/09 at 20:04:02

655850425268745F5253535645370 wrote:

[quote author=012C22222037450 link=1230923628/0#7 date=1230960050]This stuff has never let me down:

Ultra Copper (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)

I find it pretty easy to remove, too.

Digger, are you using this stuff without any gasket paper at all?
[/quote]

I used it on the head cover and the two engine case halfs. On the side covers, I put a tiny bit on each side of the gasket. Also put some on the head plug.

Not leaks....... knock on wood.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by SV og LS on 01/10/09 at 02:32:51

617265647B7670727926170 wrote:

what do ya guys think about making an aluminum plug and seal it with o-rings?

It should work well. I knew I'd seen it somewhere and had to search a bit, this is Finnish version of a alloy plug (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV20pWgr).

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/09 at 08:23:48

00053C341F00530 wrote:

[quote author=617265647B7670727926170 link=1230923628/0#5 date=1230943667]what do ya guys think about making an aluminum plug and seal it with o-rings?

It should work well. I knew I'd seen it somewhere and had to search a bit, this is Finnish version of a alloy plug (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV20pWgr).[/quote]
I'm thinking that if it was low profile enough, you might be able to pop it out w/o removing the head cover (if the o-ring ever leaked)

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by DocNeedles on 01/10/09 at 08:55:26

5A7779797B6C1E0 wrote:

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by T Mack 1 on 01/10/09 at 10:32:19

6F4448654E4E4F474E582B0 wrote:

[quote author=5A7779797B6C1E0 link=1230923628/0#7 date=1230960050]This stuff has never let me down:

Ultra Copper (http://www.permatex.com/products/Automotive/automotive_gasketing/gasket_makers/auto_Permatex_Ultra_Copper_Maximum_Temperature_RTV_Silicone_Gasket_Maker.htm)

I find it pretty easy to remove, too.

Thanks all for the information. I found that I have an older tube of Ultra Copper that I will use. In cleaning up the old plug how would I do that? I believe I read that I could use some aerosol break cleaner for difficult areas. Would this work?
DocNeedles[/quote]

Watch out.... some brake cleaner will disolve rubber.

First use some WD-40 (or similar product) to get most crud off. Then wipe down with rubbing alcohol to get the oils off.

NOTE: if you have the old sytle plug, maybe you might want to invest the 10-15 dollars to get the new style.

How can you tell what you have???? :-?

The old style is a metal cap (cup?) covered in rubber. Much smaller than a shot glass but you could probably use it for one. The new style has the inside filled up with rubber, so it would not make a good shot glass.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Digger on 01/10/09 at 18:24:19

765D517C5757565E5741320 wrote:

Thanks all for the information. I found that I have an older tube of Ultra Copper that I will use. In cleaning up the old plug how would I do that? I believe I read that I could use some aerosol break cleaner for difficult areas. Would this work?
DocNeedles[/quote]

A while back, I had a hard time cleaning the old gasket cement off of my plug (it was something other than Ultra-Copper). I had to scrape pretty good. Of course, that plug leaked when I put it back in.

>:(

So, unless you can get the old gasket cement off without too much trauma, I'd suggest a new plug.

FWIW, I find the Ultra-Copper is relatively easy to clean off of metal surfaces, but I've not yet tried cleaning it off the rubber plug.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by Digger on 01/10/09 at 18:28:05

465542435C5157555E01300 wrote:

[quote author=00053C341F00530 link=1230923628/0#13 date=1231583571][quote author=617265647B7670727926170 link=1230923628/0#5 date=1230943667]what do ya guys think about making an aluminum plug and seal it with o-rings?

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by verslagen1 on 01/10/09 at 21:53:29

Already know if you take an aluminum rod and put a 30° bend in it about 2" from end, you can pop the rubber plug from below. I don't know what kind of sealant was on the '88 but it kinda looked like indian head sealant.

Title: Re: re gasket sealer for plug leak
Post by SV og LS on 01/11/09 at 02:45:03

4B584F4E515C5A58530C3D0 wrote:

I'm thinking that if it was low profile enough, you might be able to pop it out w/o removing the head cover (if the o-ring ever leaked)

Hmm.. how to install it back? Through the valve inspection cover??

O- rings could be a problem. I've seen another version where a alloy spacer pushes down into an old style plug.. when the cover is torqued down, the spacer pushes the plug down, sealing it.