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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for it? /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1227448621 Message started by Toymaker on 11/23/08 at 05:56:58 |
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Title: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for it? Post by Toymaker on 11/23/08 at 05:56:58 or is there a way to do it ourselves.? |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by rigidchop on 11/23/08 at 09:56:56 someone was gonna try it awhile ago, i think it may have been Ed L. don't know for sure. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Toymaker on 11/23/08 at 10:54:47 Yep...I think you are right. When he was here, we talked about it. I think he was going to file the holes larger on the pickup so that there was a little adjustment. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by serowbot on 11/23/08 at 11:29:06 I've heard of people doing that with other models. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by mikestrikes on 11/23/08 at 17:07:21 655954655E485C505A5443310 wrote:
All Ignition boxes I know of will have at least a simple timing curve built in. I know Kawasaki boxes I've dealt with have a start up setting, and reads RPM's and curves the timing as needed, but they also have a Throttle Position sensor to add a 3D timing curve. The Savage I bet has a range or retard and advance thats RPM related. By how much or at that RPM I have no clue. But yeah you could slot the holes in the pickup mounts and move it a little to get some retard or advance timing but no more than say 3* |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Reelthing on 11/24/08 at 08:00:15 The LS650 SSM lists the ignition timing @5deg btdc below 2k rpm and 30deg btdc above 4k rpm - we've never had plot posted here of the actual curve (that I remember). |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Ed L. on 11/25/08 at 12:25:42 I'm guilty as charged for slotting the mounting holes on the ignition sender unit. It was't real hard to do unless you count dropping a thrust washer which ended up sticking between the flywheel and stator and making a strange whiring noise, lucky I didn't blow the engine. After removing the left side cover all I did was take a dremel and oval the mounting holes on the sender. I have a degree wheel which shows that I got almost 2 degrees advance on the module. Performance wize it seems to give me another 200-250 more useable rpm but that is just a (seat of the pants) observation. You can't get any more advance cause the heads of the bolts that mount the module end up getting in the way of moving it. If you want to get more advance it would be possible to make a plate out of a piece of metal but that will cause some other problems. Ideally you would need two plates, one that mounts on the side cover and one that mounts the module. Drill the plates to give the advance you want and mount everything using recessed screws to keep the heads out of the way. The little mounting pillars on the side cover would need to be ground down to make up for the extra thickness of the two plates so the module would line up at the right spot on the flywheel. Done right you could set the timing anywhere you please. Now the trick would be to make the timing adjustable from the outside of the engine, still working on that ;) If there was a way to open up the cdi and reprogram it that would be cool also. There used to be the circuit diagram of the cdi floating around but I haven't seen it for quite some time. Bet you could tweek it but I wouldn't know how. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Toymaker on 11/27/08 at 03:52:35 Hi Ed....I wodered if you did the advance thing...sounds good. Next time I have the left cover off, I'll be joining ya. BTW...how are the bees? |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by LANCER on 11/27/08 at 05:46:06 437F7243786E7A767C7265170 wrote:
Hey guys.......Happy Turkey ! :D |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Toymaker on 11/28/08 at 12:59:15 Hey...Lancer, Ed and Oldfeller....aka "The Semi-wild bunch" I hope you all enjoyed a good meal and a restful Thanksgiving...I did and am getting ready for a hot Turkey sandwich or two. :) |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by LANCER on 11/28/08 at 15:27:49 6F535E6F5442565A505E493B0 wrote:
Just had a plate of leftovers microwaved; so good the second time around...then a nice sized piece of pumkin pie with whipped cream all over and a nice cup of coffee to wash it down. :) Yesterday was good; three kids with husbands/wives + 5 grandchildren running around...lot's of noise, everyone talking at once, the whole family all together for the first time in quite a while, and the cherry on top being my youngest daughter (US Marine baby girl) being 3 months pregnant with her first baby ... # 6 grandchap for us... makes for a good Thanksgiving in my book. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Oldfeller on 11/29/08 at 07:49:14 Thanksgiving was nice, I left at 9:30 and drove to Raleigh where the wife's family sat 40 people around a very long table and we had a feast that was 2 days a cooking with 2-3 women in attendance at the stoves. Plus what was arranged to be cooked elsewhere and brought in hot. It was a mega feast. Then I drove to Wilmington and ate Thanksgiving Dinner with my side of the family (the colorful side) which was cooking and drinking and laughing right on up until it hit the table at 6:30 pm. Then I drove home. Two days worth of good times inside a single day plus all the driving !! The Semi-Wild Bunch, huh? Sure we weren't a bit closer to the Wild Hogs than the Wild Bunch? I still chuckle thinking about floating in your pool laughing at that angry young storm cloud that followed us all the way back from the upper mountain passes. It simply couldn't see us to hit us with those flashing lightning bolts what with us being neck deep in the water while soaking out all the aches ... it could sure hear us laughing at it but couldn't see us to hit us. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by maxbowersox on 09/21/15 at 17:34:24 Can I revive an old thread and ask questions? Has anyone else tried this, and how is it working out? I was thinking about doing this but was concerned about keeping the gap correct between the pickup sensor and the flywheel, since the sensor does not mount to the case but rather the cover. Just got finished with several other mods and am planning to put it on the dyno later this week. Thought it would be best to set the timing first. It feels to me like the timing could use a little more advance, or at least a more aggressive timing advance curve. I think it would accelerate quicker if the timing were made to advance sooner in the rpms. I put a Dynatec 2000 on a sportster that I built and chose an aggressive advance. It made a huge difference in the throttle response, don't know if it made more horsepower, but it was a lot snappier when I hammered down. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Dave on 09/21/15 at 19:33:26 I don't really know that advancing timing is needed on a long stroke motor that is designed for torque. The problem could be detonation at low rpm and full throttle.....on hot days. The euro version of the bike has a throttle sensor switch that is activated at full throttle..... and we believe it retards the timing at full throttle (although we have no written documents that prove that yet. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by maxbowersox on 09/22/15 at 02:18:24 I was looking for a way to get the timing to advance quicker, like being advanced to 30°btdc by about 1600-1800 rpms, and then having a full advance of 35° btdc. |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by Ed L. on 09/22/15 at 07:05:15 Slotting the mounting plate on the sensor gave a "hard" unadjustable 2 degree advance on the ignition. With the low compression engine I have never noticed any knock when the engine is hot. It's proven better than nothing but..... Got the idea from when I built go-kart engines using the Briggs 5hp. A common trick was to use offset flywheel keys to kick up the timing, some builders also slotted the mounting holes for the ignition coils. Setting up an adjustable advance is a whole other ball game, the ignition isn't like the point type where it was possible to respring the weights and change the advance curve. Now it is all electronic controlled which is why a schematic of the ignition module would be so helpful. Even then you would still need to figure out which components to change to get a custom advance. I've found that low compression engines like the big single don't do well with a lot of spark advance over the factory settings, a little goes a long way. Change the advance curve should help in the midrange torque while the "hard" advance on my engine seems to help overall. Just for sh!ts and giggles I'll see if I can track down a schematic of the ignition module, it would be a nice piece of reference material to have on the site. Officially retired and have plenty of time on my hands. ;) |
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Title: Re: Ignition advance....does the cdi provide for i Post by verslagen1 on 09/22/15 at 07:52:59 I'd wanna know what I currently had before I went off and made changes. You'll need to make a timing wheel that can replace the stator bolt so you can use a timing light. Then I'd map out the advance vs. rpm. The brain box is a little sensitive and expensive to replace so I'd want to replace the whole system so you know for sure it'll work together. Advancing the timing like Ed did by 2° does not give me any worries at all. This is not a high performance engine nor is it tuned any where near it. |
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