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Message started by DennisG on 10/15/08 at 17:43:46

Title: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by DennisG on 10/15/08 at 17:43:46

My wife bought a used 2006 S40 with about 4500 miles on it. I pored a couple of gallons of gas and 4 oz of Seafoam and rode it home about 125 miles. Runs great at after I got the throttle about half way open. Less than half open and it bucks and bounces. Tried tuning the PMS and it is now set at 2 3/4. Getting ready to do the Clymer Manual Tune-up.

Any other things I should try? Do I need to rejet? I believe the machine is stock.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Dj12midnit on 10/15/08 at 17:53:35

First suggestion white spacer mod.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by MichaelK on 10/15/08 at 18:48:20

Get an aftermarket air filter (K&N) that gives improved air flow. It sounds to me that it is choking.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by verslagen1 on 10/15/08 at 20:03:09

could be the air filter
but i'd clean the carb before you try anything after the filter.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/15/08 at 20:17:10

Put a richer high and low speed jet one up from stock

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Trippah on 10/15/08 at 20:29:30

Before leaping into carb tuning/mods ..you say it is bucking with throttle less than half open. How about when idling? I'm kinda thinking sticky needle but am curious about neutral and idling.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/15/08 at 22:39:01

Tried tuning the PMS

Brave man, but fighting an uphill battle.Bucking & PMS are inseparable. There may be no mechanical answer. Do you know a Priest?

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by DennisG on 10/16/08 at 05:28:27

Put a richer high and low speed jet one up from stock -- Should that be necessary if the Exhaust and Intake are stock?

How about when idling? -- Not a problem at the idle. I may have it set a little high (runs about 7 mph at the ilde in 1st).

Thanks all, I am off to get dirty. I am going to pull out the white spacer also. I'll let you know something when I get everything put back together :)

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/16/08 at 06:40:45

the s40 comes lean I would rejet but leave the white spacer in you will hurt your gas mileage if you take it out

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by mornhm on 10/16/08 at 07:56:53

Before I would do a lot of mods, I'd figure out what is wrong. Run a tank or two of fresh fuel with seafoam (or whatever) to see if you can flush out the problem. Was the MC sitting for a while? Did you start with fresh fuel? Did you drain the old fuel? If so, was it clean - any signs of rust? If things are seriously gummed/plugged up, you may have to clean the carbs. I would get it working correctly before I made a bunch of changes (mods) that will just complicate the issue. Bucking and bouncing as you describe up to half throttle isn't standard issue with the Savage, so either someone else has already made modifications that were wrong, or something is "wrong" that is fixable without making modifications.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/16/08 at 10:38:38

so if the bike belongs to your wife, why are we talking to you? she'll never learn anything this way... in my opinion, your wife should change the oil and spark plug, clean the carb, drain the gas if there is any left from when you picked it up and don't worry about then seafoam anymore because if you use too much it hurts more than helps. when done, check see if the choke is still stuck. ;)

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/08 at 11:18:21

75534851514049210 wrote:

Before leaping into carb tuning/mods ..you say it is bucking with throttle less than half open. How about when idling? I'm kinda thinking sticky needle but am curious about neutral and idling.

I didnt mean to make light of your troubles, I just didnt know the answer to Bucking & I really dont know what you meant by PMS. No one else has asked, so I guess I am overlooking something simple.
But, since bucking isnt part of the norm for these bikes, I would suggest finding & solving that before adding any variables into, like mods to the carb. Sometimes a simple mod can leave a little gremlin to find & the more changes made at one time, the more complicated it can be. There are some real carb knowledgeable folks here who can listen to the problem & if it occurs at a certain RPM range, they will know what circuit in the carb needs checked.
I hope your wife reads the responses that address the problem & learns a bit, so you can work together & learn & have fun.

I know Ill be following this thread, because this type of problem can be tricky to find.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Moofed on 10/16/08 at 11:53:54

Pilot Mixture Screw?

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by DennisG on 10/16/08 at 14:07:42

Thanks everyone. The carb was a mess. A lot of crud! Cleaned it out and did the white spacer mod. Yes, I know that I shouldn't have done the mod until I got the bike running better but the carb was so dirty I assumed it was the cause of the problem and went ahead with the mod.

Bottom line, The bike is back to being a good little pony as my wife calls it, and if needed, it will take off like satan is after it. We are happy.

what you meant by PMS -- someone else answered and called it a Pilot Mixture Screw, I knew it by the name of Primary Mixture Screw. Samething as fas as I can figure.

so if the bike belongs to your wife -- It is her first bike in 30 years and a little nervous with this one. The next oil change is hers and that is the way she wants it ;D

Once again, thanks for being so nice to the new guy. I have done my own work on my V-Star for the last 15 months. I have gotten real comfortable with working on it and hope to get her the same way with her bike soon. ;D

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Charon on 10/16/08 at 16:38:40

You have just demonstrated that SeaFoam will not clean a carburetor. You had to do it yourself. You may also want to look into the gas tank and see if there is more crud in there - after all, the crud in the carburetor had to come from somewhere. Some of it could have been locally generated in the carb, but probably not all of it. An in-line fuel filter may not be amiss.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/16/08 at 17:09:15

1537373E3D3C580 wrote:

Pilot Mixture Screw?

welldontIfeelsillynow!

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Dj12midnit on 10/16/08 at 18:40:01

765D54475A5B350 wrote:

Does it prove seafoam does not work, or does it prove that the PO did not use seafoam. I do not think anyone is saying seafoam with clean everything.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by DennisG on 10/16/08 at 18:47:14

I think the Seafoam worked and got the bike home. It took about 6 miles just to get to 50 miles per hour. I was seriously looking for alternate routes that didn't take me on the interstate. After I got to 50 mph, it took another 20 minutes or so to get up to 70. After that it ran like crazy. I think the seafoam worked but the damage was worse than I thought. I will be looking into the tank and maybe trying the fuel filter in the near future (or should I say, she will!).

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/16/08 at 19:22:10

I think the seafoam loosened the gunk up a few more day and it would run alright,you don't take a car carb a part why would you take a motorcycle carb apart,I had a motorcycle for over 20 years driven 5 miles a year the carb never was taken apart,other than changing low and high speed jets when new.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/16/08 at 21:31:48

1C373E2D30315F0 wrote:

i have used sea foam twice and i have been stuck on the side of the road twice with flakes of crud from the float bowl clogging the works. no way that stuff got through the fuel filter. we have 10% ethanol fuel here and it rots everything... including itself! congrats on the successful surgery.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/16/08 at 21:34:32

3E3530306A6B5C0 wrote:

what bike was that bill?

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by verslagen1 on 10/16/08 at 22:56:54

bills first bike

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpXKzs51Ids[/media]

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 10/17/08 at 02:13:59

That was a HOOT!

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/17/08 at 03:37:45

The bike was a Suzuki GR 650 1983,It sat in a barn for over 20 years,driven 5 miles a year.Do you take the carb off your lawn mower to clean,I've had generators that were 20 years old never had carb off,power cement finishers, bobcats,all kinds of gasoline motors.The one honda generator wouldn't' start if it was low on oil,nice safety feature,Why don't cars and motorcycles have that.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/17/08 at 13:26:29

5E4147405D5A6B5B6B53414D06340 wrote:

That was a HOOT!

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/17/08 at 13:42:18

My first bike was a 1971 yamaha RD200

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/17/08 at 13:42:26

sorry if you took offense, i was only curious as to what bike is was that is so reliable.of course it, and all your other gear, was probably stored properly.

we see a lot of improperly stored whirly-birds and mowers and wackers big and small and in my shop... the carb is just easier to get clean if it's off the machine and in the dump tank. but hey, thats just my opinion.

"Why don't cars and motorcycles have that?" good question... i have been asking small engine folks that question for a while now and nobody knows. i wish a few cars i have owned in the past had one ;)

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/17/08 at 13:58:44

I've also had 9 difference snowmobiles,I have changed the jet needles clips many times at 10 degrees in a foot of snow,so I do know about taking carbs apart,and how they work

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Charon on 10/17/08 at 15:43:35

I have already looked up - and posted on this forum - the ingredients of SeaFoam. It consists of approximately one-half Pale Oil (highly refined 20 weight oil); approximately one-third naptha (lighter fluid); and one-sixth isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol). That's it. Pray tell, which of these ingredients will clean a carburetor or a fuel tank, especially diluted two ounces to about 300 ounces of gasoline (a full Savage tank)? One ounce of 20 weight oil in 300 ounces of gas? Two-thirds of an ounce of naptha (itself not much different from gas) in 300 ounces of gas? Or one-third of an ounce of isopropyl alcohol in 300 ounces of gas? A number of folks have griped about 10% ethanol - which would be about 30 ounces of ethanol (a quart) in 300 ounces of fuel - but the tiny amount of alcohol in SeaFoam is wonderful. Like all gas additives (possibly but not certainly excluding Sta-Bil) it is worthless. If you see any effect from its use, it is the Placebo Effect writ large.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by bill67 on 10/17/08 at 15:47:39

Charon if I was you I wouldn't use seafoam,But I know a lot of people who use it and like it.Could you tell me whats in Sta-bil

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by dropoutjohn on 10/17/08 at 18:17:46

707B7E7E2425120 wrote:

I've also had 9 difference snowmobiles,I have changed the jet needles clips many times at 10 degrees in a foot of snow,so I do know about taking carbs apart,and how they work

lighten up bro, i never implied that you didn't.

Title: Re: Wife's bike is bucking
Post by Charon on 10/18/08 at 08:19:21

I have written on this forum of my experience with Sta-Bil. In essence, I didn't use it for a period of nearly twenty years, and had no fuel-related problems at all. I have been using it for the last five or six years, and have had no fuel-related problems. The only difference I can detect is the smell of the exhaust, and the slight coloration of the fuel with Sta-Bil added. However, it is the only additive mentioned by name in the owner's manuals for Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Craftsman. Except for Sta-Bil, those manuals say fuel (and oil) additives are not necessary and will do nothing except increase costs.

I have been unable to find out what is in Sta-Bil. The MSDS sheets available on the Web seem to come up with about 95% "Heavy Aromatic Naphtha (Solvent Naphtha)" and 5% Naphthalene, which is the ingredient in mothballs. They also mention something about proprietary ingredients, or manufacturer's secret formula, which is permissible in an MSDS if the hazards and precautions are properly spelled out. I point out that, if any of you run a business, and use Sta-Bil in the course of that business, you are required to have the MSDS on hand and available to your employees. Perhaps that MSDS will have more information.