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Message started by NewB on 10/03/08 at 21:18:38

Title: Rebuild a starter?
Post by NewB on 10/03/08 at 21:18:38

I work at a tool repair shop and have tons of good armatures and housings with which I could grab some magnets from. Is it possible to do this? I know some places will rebuild a starter for pretty cheap but if I can do it myself for free that would be awesome. 86 Savage has broken magnets in the starter, I think the previous owner smacked it a couple times with a hammer or something.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by EssForty on 10/04/08 at 02:36:55

Certainly it is possible to rebuild a starter yourself. Replacing brushes is easy. You can buy them fairly cheaply, but free is always better if you have exact matches in your shop.

Before you put a lot of time into finding brushes, be sure to do a good cleaning and inspection of your disassembled starter. The fact that your brushes broke, versus being worn down as is normal, suggests there may be other problems created by the hammering by the PO.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by dasch on 10/04/08 at 05:16:22

Brushes? He said magnets.

NewB, you did mean magnets, right? Do we have a permanent magnet stator? I always assumed all starters come with thick wire coil stator. Guess ours doesn't.

You will have to precisely match the gauge (diameter), polarity (axial/radial/north/south) and, a bit less precisely - the magnet force. (If you miss that, it will still turn, but how powerfull? - trial and error.). And, find a good way to bond it permanently (JB Weld or a set screw???)

And EssForty's right. What else is cracked inside? A hammer blow that hard... Good luck.

And I still can't believe it's a perm mag stator...

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by EssForty on 10/04/08 at 07:46:18

I assumed the NewB found a broken brush and thought it was a magnet. It's a basic starter motor with 4 brushes, an armature, and field coils in the case.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by T Mack 1 on 10/04/08 at 10:57:41

Someone already reported that their magnets were broken too.

Looking at the FSM, it doesn't say anything about checking continuity there, only on the armature........ And looking at the picture of the armature, it has a lot of little windings so I would say magnets are possible.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by EssForty on 10/04/08 at 15:14:30

TMack: Never had mine apart to confirm how it's set up. The stator can be a permanent magnet or another set of coils. Since the Clymers referred to them as the "field coils", I assumed coils. But looking at the detail pictures it sure looks like magnets. If hammered on they'd shatter.

NewB: I doubt that it is repairable in that condition. Might want to see if you can buy a new case with the field magnets already mounted. It would not be easy to find matching magnets, line them up properly and rebuild the case assembly. Typical starter rebuilds address the moving parts like brushes, bearings, springs,etc.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by NewB on 10/06/08 at 20:59:14

I'm talking about permanent magnets, yes. I can measure the guage of the magnets, but the polarity I dont know. The brushes look good and if need to I can measure the old and match it up with something else we use. We fix all tools, lot of manufacture warranties with Ridgid, Dewalt, Hitachi, shoot the list is more like what don't we fix. Everything from pneumatic tools to hydraulic jacks and diesel generators. Any way, I can find permanent magnets to replace the broken one, but now that I am hearing you guys talking about having the coil stators, could I go this route? Some of the electric grinders armature and stator look to be the right size. Money is an issue is why I ask. I tested the armature and it is good. There are a bunch of marks on the top, so my guess is that the last owner hit it a couple time to get another month or so out of it. I can attach some pics later if that would help. What disengages the starter after the engine is started? Appreciate the help.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by verslagen1 on 10/06/08 at 22:10:30

starter has a one way clutch on it. so as soon as the engine kicks it's likely to be spinning faster than the starter.

I'm not sure when world wide but the US 95's and later also have a limiter on the gear to protect the starter (housing, gears, every thing that goes bang when the engine kicks back)

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by Violent_Rage on 10/06/08 at 23:54:57

Some month ago I had your same problem.
I have tried to repair it, unwelding the magnets, but after many failures I have renounced and I bought from Lancer a working starter.

I have also pics somewhere...

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by NewB on 10/07/08 at 05:20:07

I guess from the beginning I should have stated year of bike. It is a 86 LS650 CA Model. I do not see anything that would stop the armature from spinning once started unless the gear inside the right side of bike that the starter sits in moves once started. I would like to see some pics of your attempt if possible, and a little more detail of materials used etc etc. Thanks

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by NewB on 10/13/08 at 06:59:27

I have not yet had the chance to give this a try and would appreciate a little more knowledge on the subject first. What disengages the starter once the engine is started? First off, I found a dewalt recip saw that uses permanent magnets almost the same size, I might try to replace my magnets with 4 of these new ones. I also found a field that fits in my starter case and my armature fits inside of it perfectly. I might give each a try and see how it goes. Im still just a little foggy about what stops the starter motor once the engine starts and prevents it from frying up. If this does not work, what are all the dimensions and specs of the motor I need, and how much was Lancer selling his for? Just bought a jet kit from him over the weekend and my wife had a fit. Times are getting pretty rough.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by Ed L. on 10/13/08 at 17:10:41

The starter spins a gear on the back of the flywheel that has a one way clutch on it. As the load from the starter is applied to the gear the cluch engages, once the starter stops or the engine starts the clutch disengages. Good luck on rebuilding the starter, let us know if you find anything that works.

Title: Re: Rebuild a starter?
Post by Violent_Rage on 10/14/08 at 01:02:03

uhm I can't remember, I have bought the starter two years ago and I have lost the e-mails! Anyway 300$ for a full box including starter, brake disc and caliper, sissybar and rails, toolbox cover and key.

I don't find pics!!!