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Message started by eanon on 09/24/08 at 14:49:32

Title: Interesting Side Effects
Post by eanon on 09/24/08 at 14:49:32

Well, a couple of weeks ago, I received and installed Lancer's performance air filter, for sale through the savage store online. (Support the Cause! Buy from you friends!) I was expecting the normal changes, like more power, which I definitely got, but had a couple of surprises as well. I keep pretty good tabs on my gas mileage, and WAS running between 44 and 47 mpg. With the new air filter, 50 to 53 mpg. Thats a pretty big jump! Before the air filter, 65mph @ 4500 rpms, 70mph @ 4700 rmps (more or less). After the filter, 65mph @ 4300, and 70 @ 4500. Got to say, I'm happy with the new filter! :D

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/08 at 14:52:55

The only way to change MPH at a given RPM is to alter gearing.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by eanon on 09/24/08 at 15:02:39

Don't know what to tell you. I cruise right at 65 mph to and from work, for a grand total of just under 50 miles, every day. I'm always right at 4500 rpms. It's kinda nice becuase I don't have to look all the way down at my speedo, just look at the tach. But now, 65 mph is at 4300. Maybe 4350. Definitely under 4500.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/24/08 at 15:19:16

Innybody else got anything? I dont get it.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by DJM on 09/24/08 at 15:39:54

That still doesn't explain the changed tach reading. I can think of only two things to account for that, one is a slipping clutch, and the other is being a different gear.

If you changed you oil to a thicker oil at the same time as you changed the air intake, that could account for it. If the clutch was slipping a little before, you would have had higher RPMS for the same speed.
I hear that some of the modern "energy saving" oils can do this also.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by verslagen1 on 09/24/08 at 17:35:09

What kind of tach are we talking about?
one them $20 'I hope it lasts a year' ones?
Your talking about a gizmo that probably has more error in it then the DMV.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by T Mack 1 on 09/24/08 at 18:44:48

Eanon, are you using the factory speedo????

I been trying to think of things that might change the RPM to MPH numbers. Many simple ones came to mind, like tire air pressure, but that gets ruled out because the factory speedo takes the reading at the tranny and not the tire. Air temp that might affect tire air pressure is then also ruled out. BUT.... if you are not using the factory gauge, tire press could explain it.

Now, if you are using the factory speedo, there is still a explaination.
Our bike has to use an electronic tach. The Analog (dial) tachs that tie into the ign coil are sensitive to resistance. That means a bad connection can change the reading. Corrosion or a loose wire can raise the reading. Bumping it to make a better connection could also lower it. On the small digital tachs, many use inductive pick-up (wrap wire around sparkplug wire). If that wire was bumped and the coils were tighter or looser, that can affect the reading , but only a tiny bit... Replacing the filter, did you remove the seat and tank? Or have you done that lately??? If a wire got bumped........ :-?

Just a thought.....
:-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-? :-?

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by bill67 on 09/24/08 at 19:22:16

you tach has to be off.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by doc5446 on 09/24/08 at 21:02:12

6B786F6E717C7A78732C1D0 wrote:

Your talking about a gizmo that probably has more error in it then the DMV.

Nice crack at the DMV...don't forget the legal records at the police station/courthouse..."I didn't know I had a warrant...".

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by eanon on 09/25/08 at 14:19:22

I think you might win the prize, T Mack. I am running the Baron's Mini tied into the ign coil. I removed the seat and the carb, plus, I pulled the old air box and had to semi re-route some of the wires to "clean things up". Maybe I pulled something loose..... Will have to check.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by T Mack 1 on 09/25/08 at 18:46:10

4C48474647290 wrote:

OR..... you now have a better connection...... ;)

I had a bad connection on my last tach and got higher readings. Found out it was from the way I routed the wire and removing the tank too many times.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by LANCER on 09/25/08 at 18:55:56

Wow...increased power, increased milage, and a stealth gear change as well .......that is an amazing air filter.
Now, just one question.....how did I do that ?

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by dasch on 09/26/08 at 07:14:40

All jet-kit sellers are aliens :-)

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by eanon on 09/26/08 at 14:19:16

Well, everything is nice and tight and where it should be. Obviously, something changed, but I don't know what. Maybe T Mack is right, and now I have a better connection and more accurate readings. I like to think it's my "Magic" new air filter!

hmmmm....... resale point? Re-jetted carb, custom seat, magic air filter...... 8-)

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by EssForty on 09/26/08 at 15:37:58

What is the gear ratio for the top gear on the 4 speed and 5 speed transmission? I've searched and I can't find it. Also, has anyone calculated what the rpms should be for a Savage at various speeds and gears assuming stock tires and proper tire inflation?

I'm curious how accurate my tach is. It is very repeatable but I am not sure if it is accurate for a 5-speed.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by BurnPgh on 09/27/08 at 22:01:00

To find out how accurate your tach is run the bike in 3rd. From what I understand its very near 100rpm to 1mph in 3rd (ie at 65mph you'll be at about 6500rpm).

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by Digger on 11/29/08 at 21:19:57

787A6F7474756872681B0 wrote:

Hi Ess,

A while ago, someone posted a graph showing engine RPM vs. speed.

Based on that graph, here are the approximate (+/- 100) engine RPMs corresponding to a speed of 25 mph:

1st gear: 4500 RPM
2nd gear: 2950 RPM
3rd gear: 2125 RPM
4th gear: 1800 RPM
5th gear: 1650 RPM

If someone has that graph I spoke of, maybe they'd be kind enough to post it!

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by Rockin_John on 11/30/08 at 01:01:23

This might be the graph you are referring to Digger:

http://catoosatrading.com/images/cycles/savage_dyno/KmRPMcorr.jpg

Anyways, it is a graph for a stock Savage 5-speed showing kph @ given rpm for any gear.

If memory serves me right, those of us wanting to know what it translates into in mph need to multiply the kph by .62

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by Paladin. on 11/30/08 at 08:40:42

3331243F3F3E233923500 wrote:

Don't remember where I got the info, but:

Primary Reduction: 1:1.81 (crank to transmission)

1st -- 1:2.333
2nd -- 1:1.578
3rd -- 1:1.142
4th -- 1:0.956
5th -- 1:0.884

Final Drive: 1:2.96

rear tire diam 24.4" (This will vary with size and brand of tire)

The math:

4500 rpm engine speed / 1.81 primary reduction =
2486 rpm into transmission / gear (fifth = 0.884) =
2812 rpm front sprocket / 2.96 final drive =
950 rpm wheel spin * 24.4" (tire diameter) * pi (3.14.16) =
72863 inches/minute ground speed * 60 min/hour / 63360 inch/mile =
69 mph

Get a stopwatch and a measured mile. 4500 rpm through the mile should take just a hair over 52 seconds.

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by eanon on 11/30/08 at 13:02:28

Common' man. Surely you can brake it down more than that! ;D

Title: Re: Interesting Side Effects
Post by sluggo on 12/03/08 at 04:13:03

i wonder how fast the scumbag in fl. would start calling theM Magic filters if we started called them that here?