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Message started by Doug A on 09/03/08 at 05:31:19

Title: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/03/08 at 05:31:19

On my way back from having new Dunlop 404's put on my bike my engine had a bit of a tantrum for a minute or so. I was going about 65 mph when I lost power and the engine bogged down. After 2 or 3 seconds it would clear up only to happen again 5 or 10 seconds later. All in all, it happen about 5 times. The rest of the trip home was fine. No more problems. This is the third time that this has happened. (About a 3 or 4 weeks between episodes). I have tried SeaFoam, but I guess it must be something else. I remember somebody talking about a similar problem, but I can't remember who it was. I am curious if they ever figured out the problem? Oh, love the new tires by the way.

Thanks....

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/08 at 07:17:40

Next time it happens, switch to prime to see if it clears up.

Or replace the vac line, make sure to use clamps on both ends.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by ALittlebird on 09/03/08 at 14:54:11

415245445B5650525906370 wrote:

Next time it happens, switch to prime to see if it clears up.

Or replace the vac line, make sure to use clamps on both ends.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by serowbot on 09/03/08 at 16:56:00

You can buy little rubber vac line caps at an auto parts store, or use a couple of short pieces of tubing with a golf tee stuck in the ends.
Neither of these is a permanent fix, (the rubber will rot) but can be used to test.

Oops! Littlebird, just reread your post, you can buy permanent metal vac line clamps at the auto part store too. To clamp the tubing to the nipple,..right?...not to clamp the line off.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/03/08 at 18:33:28

Littlebird, welcome back. I'd beg to differ with you on your previous statement. If it runs on prime, I suspect it is a problem with the petcock. If changing the vacuum line didn't help, it is likely a leaky diaphragm. I had to switch my petcock for that very reason shortly after I got the bike. It's also possible the main petcock screen is plugged, but if that's the case, it should run on reserve as well as it does on prime.

Sixty-five bucks and a half hour or so of fiddling and mine was a brand new machine.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/08 at 19:38:57

There is a difference to running on prime versus reserve.

In prime, a little finger operated by the lever, pushes the diaphram to the open position. So if your diaphram is too hard for the vacuum to move it, the little finger will.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by ALittlebird on 09/04/08 at 02:18:13

6177607D65707D66120 wrote:

Yes Serowbot. It came with those ridiculously ineffective clips at each end that need to be changed to something that would seriously hold each end on the nipple.

I'll check the parts store this weekend. Thanks.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/04/08 at 11:45:48

I pulled the vac line off. (at least I hope it was the vac line...(about 8 inches long, runs from the petcock to the carb?)). There was gas in it. I replaced it and took her out for a spin. About 5 minutes into the ride the bike started sputtering in 2nd gear and then killed. I switched the petcock over to prime, got it started, and it seemed to run much better. (I only rode it for another 10 minutes though). One other thing. I replaced the stock muffler with a Dyna muffler last week. I am noticing some popping and crackling moving through the gear changes. I know I need to rejet the carb, but could that be adding to or causing the problem? (I had the engine bog down twice before I switched mufflers though...)

Thanks.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/08 at 11:52:57

0E03263B3B232A2D263D2B4F0 wrote:

[quote author=415245445B5650525906370 link=1220445079/0#1 date=1220451460]Next time it happens, switch to prime to see if it clears up.

Or replace the vac line, make sure to use clamps on both ends.

Verslagen where do you find clamps that small? I changed my vac line out - didn't fix the problem but the old one was kinked pretty bad.

At the moment I am running on prime since I got tired of it cutting out. Runs fine on prime so it;s obviously something with the carb.[/quote]
They do make small hose clamps, but some here said you could use cable ties, you know telephone ties, zip ties, etc.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/04/08 at 11:57:21

534E534F49485D3C0 wrote:

If you got gas in it, you got a leaky diaphram. big trouble. you need to replace the petcock or convert to manual.

Until you can get it fixed, clamp off the hose to prevent gas from flowing via the vac line and run in prime.

Gas in the oil is a very bad thing.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/04/08 at 12:36:43

I looked over the petcock manual conversion, and it looks it its beyond my meager mechanical skills. So, I guess I will fork out the $70 for a new one. What is the best way to clamp off a vac hose? Do I plug the carb, the petcock, or both? (Oh...and what do I use to clamp it off?)

Thanks.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by T Mack 1 on 09/04/08 at 12:43:11

322F322E28293C5D0 wrote:

Best to plug both ends. Either find two short pieces of hose of same size or cut what you have and replace when you get the new petcock. Then, take a small bolts that fit snugly into the hose, coat with some gasket selaer and push into the hoses to plug them.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by franch on 09/04/08 at 16:03:12

i'm going through this very issue right now. i'll be trying the 20 dollar petcock from a 2003 yamaha raptor 660.
it will strill have reserve and on but works without vacuum line

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/04/08 at 17:25:38

When I run it on prime, do I need to turn the valve to "reserve" or "on" when I shut it off?

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Foxman on 09/04/08 at 17:40:08

Quote:

When I run it on prime, do I need to turn the valve to "reserve" or "on" when I shut it off?

Yes

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/05/08 at 20:30:45

O.k. I am an idiot! Somebody needs to confinscate my tools.

I thought my vac line had gas in it so I cut the line, plugged both ends, switched to "prime", and took her out for a spin. About a minute later my bike sputtered and then died. I couldn't start the thing. I pushed it back home scratched my head and looked really close at the hoses coming off the petcock. You guessed it. I had cut and plugged the FUEL LINE! Savages don't run so well without gas it turns out. Anyway, after I reconnected the fuel line the bike started up fine. I checked the other hose (the real vac line) and it was dry. So... now what? Should I still run it on prime to see if it acts up again? If it does, what does that mean? I am also wondering if my new Dyna muffler is adding to the problem. My engine had bogged down before the muffler switch, but never enough to kill it. I am tempted to put the stock muff back on to see it makes things any better.

Thanks again for your help.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/05/08 at 20:42:00

Sorry about that. When I saw your earlier post that said "about 8 inches long, runs from the petcock to the carb?" I thought to myself "I wonder if he's talking about the...nah, surely not...but maybe I should say someth...no. No way he'd cap his fuel line. I won't butt in." ;D Next time, I guess I'll butt in and risk looking know-it-allish.

Yeah. Run it on prime. Just make sure to set it to "ON" when you kill the engine.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/05/08 at 22:40:34

Sandy,

So if it runs o.k. on prime, what does that mean? Any thoughts about the new Dyna being part of the problem?

Doug.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by franch on 09/06/08 at 05:39:21

if it runs on prime why do we have to switch to on when we stop riding for the day ?
doesn't the float in the carb suffice ?
franch

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/06/08 at 08:02:01

Doug: If it runs on prime, but not ON or RES, a problem with the petcock is indicated. The petcock operates on vacuum supplied by the engine. The vacuum causes a small diaphragm inside the petcock to pull open a valve, allowing fuel to flow when set to ON or RES. If that diaphragm becomes defective (a hole in it or a stiffening of the material from which it is constructed) it will not maintain a constant open state of the valve. This, of course, causes the carb to run dry and the engine to starve. The PRI setting opens the valve mechanically, allowing fuel to flow regardless of vacuum (provided there are no other obstructions between the tank and the spark plug.)

I haven't wrapped my mind around it yet, but I'm told that engine vacuum is at it's lowest at wide open throttle. Until I understand that, I accept it on faith. At the same time the vacuum is at its least, the engine is demanding the most fuel. If there is a flaw in the petcock, these factors combine to cause stumbling or stalling.

If the new muffler is less restrictive than the old one, I would think you would be hearing some backfire activity while the engine was stumbling. I'd look at the fuel delivery system before I started trying to fix the trouble by changing exhaust.

If you had a bellyache, would you change your diet, or your toilet paper? ;)

Franch: It MAY be good enough, but you won't find out that it wasn't until your oil is ruined by gas that has leaked by into your sump. This will at least cost you the price of an oil change, and at worst will ruin your engine.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/11/08 at 18:16:05

I guess it's back to the drawing board. I thought my problem was the petcock, so I swithced it to prime and took her out for a spin. About 10 minutes into the ride the engine sputtered and lost power in 5th gear. I figured I might as well switch the petcock back to "on" and continued my ride. I stuck around town just in case it happened again. I didn't have so much as a hiccup for the next 30 minutes. Took her through the paces from 0 to 70 and she ran fine. I would like to take her for a day trip (100 miles or so) but I am nervous . Do I need to get into the carb? ( I have tried Seafoam...)

Thanks for the advice.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/11/08 at 19:41:09

What's the history of your bike?

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/11/08 at 19:52:20

It's an 03... I am the second owner. I think the bike is completely stock except for the muffler I switched out 2 weeks ago. It had 1500 miles on it when I bought it in March and I have put 3000 miles on it since then.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/11/08 at 19:56:29

Oh, and I drilled out the brass plug and turned the pilot air screw out a turn.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/12/08 at 07:42:21

Is it possible the float level is allowing the bowl to run low?

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/14/08 at 13:20:36

I think it is time to get my hands dirty and see what makes this bike run. I took it out this morning and it killed twice during an hour long ride. Humming right along at sixty five mph and it just died. It started up after the fourth or fifth try with the starter, only to do it again 20 minutes later. Any ideas where I should look first?

My wife says "just take it to somebody who knows what they're doing!"
She doesn't have much faith in my "fixin' abilities"...either that or she has a good memory!

Wish me luck!

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Ed L. on 09/14/08 at 16:37:54

You might be getting a air lock in the gas tank. There is supposed to be a vent in the gas cap which can plug up and cause a fuel lock. I've never tried it but have heard that you can take the gas cap apart and clean it. I would think that you could use a short piece of string across the seal between the gas cap and tank to keep it from sealing as a quick check, just don't leave it there after riding. Sound like a fueling problem, have you changed the fuel line yet? I saw a fuel line that came apart inside and acted as a shutoff valve, it looked fine from the outside but kept plugging up.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by Doug A on 09/14/08 at 18:31:27

Ed,
I hadn't thought about the gas cap. I put a new fuel line on after I cut the old one (thinking it was the vac line). It seems like the problem is gettting worse though. At first the engine would bog down a bit a few times and then get better. But on this last ride it just killed without any warning.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by anothertoothpick on 09/16/08 at 17:17:32

Hey guys, been prowling these forums for a while now (bought my savage a few months ago thinking of it as a starter bike, you all are doing a fine job of changing my mind...) but I'm now compelled to jump in and finally post.

I've been having this exact same problem, only the bike doesn't restart on its own, even when I switch it to prime - I have to pushstart the bike to get the engine to turn again.

After reading about the petcock, I hopped on ebay and found one in perfect condition from a salvaged '99. I haven't had the problem in about 2 weeks, so I put off popping it in this past weekend as I had planned.

Lo and behold, it cuts out again today, this time pretty suddenly and in the middle of the leaving-campus rush. I pulled off the road, cursing because I knew I was gonna miss the movie I was headed to, and immediately pulled the vacuum line to see if there was gas in it - completely dry. I pulled the fuel line and the petcock functioned as it should - flowed in prime, but not in on.

My bike is a totally stock '01. The only modification I've done was to swap the old fuel line for some 5/16" fuel line because the old one was cracking at the end. I've changed the oil once with standard Castrol 10w-40 synthetic. I took off the tank to replace the spark plug last week before realizing I had no idea what I was doing (the manual described using some kind of spacing gauge.. :-/.). Also, I figured out with the help of these forums that I have the dreaded (or at least very irritating) plug/cap oil leak.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by verslagen1 on 09/16/08 at 20:56:14

ATP, how old's the battery?

a weak battery will turn over the engine but not have enough juice to get a spark. (BTW: plugs usually come gapped already)

Take your spare plug, plug it into the sparkplug lead, hold the sparking end against the head (with insullated pliers yn) and check for spark. No or weak spark means you need a new battery. this is why you're able to push start it, cause you are not using the battery to turn the engine.

Title: Re: Engine cutting out.
Post by anothertoothpick on 09/17/08 at 06:29:08

Hmmm didn't realize that... Was going to do the petcock this afternoon, might as well get a new battery at AAP and do that and the spark plug, and clean out the gas cap... Which should put me on the same page as Doug.

Hopefully, this isn't a carb problem...