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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Supertrapp exhaust /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219547094 Message started by Bugaboo on 08/23/08 at 20:04:51 |
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Title: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 08/23/08 at 20:04:51 Although I'm new to this forum, I've been riding a '98 Savage for years and was active on on Heise forum for a while. I had almost lost my way and was pricing v-twins when I started reading this forum. I just need to make some modifications to my Savage. I'm having the dealership install my new Supertrapp, since I need them to re-jet the carburetor using the kit I just bought from Lancer. (Yeah that's expensive, but there aren't any shadetree tinkerers around here that I trust, and my ex-boyfriend's last "I'll fix it for you" involved a 2-pound hammer.) The Supertrapp comes with minimal instructions. This afternoon the service writer guy called to ask how many disks I wanted them to install. He told me the disks are just there to change the sound, a slip-on won't improve performance, and I don't need to re-jet. I'm not going to trust any of this without getting additional opinions. For those of you with Supertrapps, how many disks are you running and how many disks do you recommend? Should I go ahead and have it re-jetted? I asked them to do the white spacer and mixture screw mods while they're fooling with the carburetor. Is that reasonable or is changing too many things at once a bad idea? I'd appreciate your guidance. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by verslagen1 on 08/23/08 at 20:14:10 7 disks + 150 main = slipping clutch :o yeah, no improvement at all. :P gas mileage remain about the same. ;D |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by FreeSpirit on 08/23/08 at 20:28:21 Yea! Another Southern member 8-) Hi Bugaboo! Welcome! I'm sure the guys will help out with your questions! |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/23/08 at 22:12:06 The Trapp comes with Instructions to "Clean It Well" or the manufacturing oils will blue it. & NO, their warranty wont cover it, |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 08/24/08 at 07:49:18 Bugaboo, Welcome to the forum! It sounds like your service writer guy is an idiot. But thats ok most of them are.Hopefully the guys in the back who will actually work on it know a little more. Have you tried doing a computer search for motorcycle shops in your area? I find it hard to beleive that there are no good dyno tune shops in the area which would still probably be cheaper than the dealership. The discs are NOT just to change the sound although the more discs you put in the louder it will be. It will also lower the back pressure of your exhaust system which will lean out your fuel mixture. The great thing about the Supertrapp is that you can adjust it to match your jetting so you dont have to re-jet to get performance improvements but you will notice more of an increase if you do. Do you have the stock air filter on the bike? The stock muffler? are you sure the bike has never been re-jetted? Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by markrider on 08/24/08 at 07:55:25 2005 S40 -I installed a DynoJet kit, Supertrapp with 14 discs, and a low restriction K&N air filter. It feels faster to me than my previous bike (a 1990 883 Sportster with a jet kit (same size 40 mm carb) and a set of Python semi-baffeled pipes. During the course of my 14 year 30,000 mile ownership of the HD Sportster, I installed a 1200 cc kit-then the Sportster felt like it had more torque than my current Savage but the vibrations at 60+ mph killed any feelings of riding pleasure-the bike felt like a paint can shaker! Sold it for a lot more than I paid for it, used the money to buy a 2005 Savage, did the mods as stated above plus handling mods (superbrace, performance fork springs, and rear shocks). I am happier now than I was with the Sportster back then. Why am I saying all this? My experience says to me that with the above set-up, I have a bike that is more fun to ride, more reliable, (the Sporty's 4-speed transmission, belt countershaft, top end and shifter mechanism broke or blew up on 4 separate occasions-all costly HD repairs), and a lot cheaper to buy, modify and own than the 1990 Sportster that I owned for 14 years. The Supertrapp with the right set up is very nice-hope this helps. markrider |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 08/24/08 at 09:35:26 Thanks for your thoughts thus far. Hopefully more of you will weigh in over the next few days. Actually, this is the same service writer guy (then employed at the other dealership), who declined to order a head cap seal to fix the oil leak a few years back, even though I provided the part number and instructions off the Heise forum. After they replaced some gaskets it still leaked like a sieve and they had to eat a bunch of labor cost to install the plug. I bought the bike used with just a few miles on it and have ridden 15,000 miles with the stock muffler and air filter. No, it has never been re-jetted. My daily commute is only 16 miles round trip, so I have been for the most part o.k. the way it is. I asked them to re-jet whether it was really necessary or not in an attempt to get as much performance improvement as possible. Apparently, they've already taken things apart and installed the 150 jet, so as far as having the dealership do the work, I'm probably already committed. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/08 at 09:42:56 So the service writer thinks he knows more than us? I hope he learned his lesson... the customer is always right. But I'd tell'm to go f himself and talk to the mechanic. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 08/24/08 at 10:05:16 In Alabama, a customer who happens to be a 100-pound female with a motorcycle has a real credibility problem. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 08/24/08 at 10:09:32 Bugaboo, If they are installing the 150 jet and they do it properly you should be fine. Hopefully they are doing the white spacer mod as well. This will help your mid throttle performance. I would have them install all 8 discs with the 150 jet and you can fine tune from there. It is very easy to change the discs. all you need is an allen wrench and some high temp grease. I think you will be very happy with the supertrapp when you get it right. I love mine! The sound is perfect for me. just the right tone, not too loud but louder than stock, and if it is not loud enough for you all you have to do is order the open end cap and run it without any discs. It will flow the same as 10 discs. Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/24/08 at 11:20:01 I may be lean, but I dont think so & I have 14 disks on the TRapp, with a 150 main, |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 08/24/08 at 18:19:33 Justin, If your bike is running well I wouldnt worry! I suggested 8 discs because i know that is what the supertrapp comes with and I would rather err on the rich side which will cause no engine damage and she can add discs from there to fine tune if needed.I cant really compare my setup to yours because I have the Dyno-jet kit and my jets are a different number than yours. I installed the 144 as suggested with 8 discs but have increased to 10 discs. I am looking for fuel mileage but do not want to sacrifice performance. Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 08/25/08 at 18:17:36 Thanks, Gentlemen. White spacer mod, 150 jet, and start with 8 disks (maybe 10?) I'll let you know how it goes. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 08/26/08 at 03:38:25 6D61726B7269646572000 wrote:
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by markrider on 08/26/08 at 05:33:21 I used Dynojet Kit # DJ-3107 for the Suzuki Savage/S40. The DynoJet main jet sizes in this kit do not match the typical size numbers for the Mikuni main jets. The kit comes with the following main jet numbers: DJ-138, DJ-140, DJ-142, DJ-144, and DJ-146. After numerous runs, spark plug readings and phone conversations with the tech guys at DynoJet-the right main jet for my application (Supertrapp w 14 discs, and K&N low restriction fabric panel filter, and an average of 800 ft. above sea level) is main jet DJ-144. The kit included a new fuel needle with an adjustable E-clip, I used position number 4 from the top of the needle. I also used the white spacer without any modification-as recommended by the tech guys at Dynojet. All I can say is that this set-up is right on for my application, the S40 runs as good, if not better than any of my prevous bikes. I do have a little experience with this carb tuning - (I have tuned the carbs for two of my previous motorcyles- 1990 Sportster with Python pipes, K&N low restriction air filter, and Dyna Single fire ignition with high voltage Dyna coils, and a 1989 Honda GB500 on which I installed a Dynojet kit and a Supertrapp exhaust but I can't remember the details from back then). Hope this helps. Mark |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by LANCER on 08/26/08 at 06:54:23 232836233B2E2D30420 wrote:
Don't forget the pilot jet. When installing a performance muffler that flows more air, this will create a leaner condition, as mentioned already, and you will certainly need to adjust the pilot air screw but may also find that a larger jet is needed in order to get the proper fuel/air ratio. It is the pilot circuit that causes most of the backfiring issues that we have. -Low throttle range ... pilot circuit -Mid throttle range ... needle circuit -High throttle range ... main jet ciruit All three need to be jetted and tuned for proper efficient running, and this will give you a smooth running engine that produces good power and yields the best mpg. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 08/26/08 at 13:51:06 565A495049525F5E493B0 wrote:
I too have rejetted many bikes and have had great luck with dyno-jet products. I have never had to change from the suggested settings but on my previous bikes (a sportster and a road king) it was easier to pull the plugs and check them. Thanks for the info! Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by markrider on 08/27/08 at 06:00:02 Gazoo, After drilling out the cap on the mixture screw, I turned it in until it was lightly seated, then I backed it out 1 1/2 turns. Pilot jet is stock. FYI- I road tested and read the plug with 8, 10, 12 and now 14 discs. Now with 14 discs, it feels, pulls and sounds a little like the old Sportster. Very minmal popping upon deacceleration unless I try to ride it like a S.O.B. Bottom line-got on the Harley bandwagon back in 89. Got off it in 2004 because it got too commercial, mainstream, and expensive for my taste. Now at 55 years old I feel most happy with what I am riding. Reminds me of the days when I started riding an old BSA 441 single-but without the kickstart. Mark |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 08/27/08 at 18:03:08 Thanks, Lancer. I won't forget the pilot jet. The backfire may be bothersome to some, but I think it's a real hoot, and I'll miss it. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 09/20/08 at 18:51:50 I got sidetracked and haven't had a chance to report back on the new muffler. I've got 8 disks in the Supertrapp and really like the sound. They installed the 150 main jet and did the white spacer modification but did not change the pilot jet. I've only ridden it maybe 75 miles back and forth to work.I do have a little backfiring, but not of the gunshot variety. More like small farts, which I don't mind. The bike feels fine at low speeds but as I reach 40 mph, it feels like the motor is straining. It feels like I should be shifting into a higher gear, but by the time I reach 40 I'm out of gears. It also feels like it's running hot. I've got yellowing of the pipe just in front of the heat shield. What's your diagnosis and what do you suggest? I actually just bought a 2006 C50 Boulevard that I'll bring home next weekend. It is well-balanced and has a low center of gravity, so I like the way it feels, but what sold me is the fuel injection. I don't know whether I can bear to sell the Savage. We'll see how I feel after I get it running right. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 09/20/08 at 19:30:50 Bugaboo, Good to hear from you! I wondered what happened with your bike. If your pipe is yellowing you are running lean. you need to remove 2 discs from your muffler and see how it runs. I think the engine sound is normal. I dont know what you rode before but I had a Road king and the engine ran a lot slower (lower rpm) than the Savage. Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 09/20/08 at 21:42:52 Thanks. Actually, I've had my Savage for 8 or 9 years. It seems like it is revving higher and working harder than before the modifications. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by LANCER on 09/21/08 at 06:41:47 202B3520382D2E33410 wrote:
With the new muffler you are getting more sound from the exhaust and engine, and all that extra mechanical sound makes it SEEM like it is working harder. from your previous post the engine is running fairly well but a little on the hot side. You said that there are no hard core backfires so the pilot circuit is pretty good. You could check the pilot air adjusting screw again just to make sure it is set perfectly. It is easy to do; just ride the bike for 5-10 min to get it good and warm; then stop and with the engine at idle turn the screw R & L 1/4 turn each way and see if the rpm increases any. If it does, go to the higher rpm setting, then turn another 1/4 turn in the same direction and see if it increases rpm any more. And so on. When you get to where the rpm is maxed out (you can turn the screw 1/8th or 1/16th turn to fine tune) then the pilot is set to the best place. If at this point the engine rpm is higher than you would like then use the idle adjustment screw on the other side of the carb to lower the rpm to the desired speed ... about 1100 rpm. Now to the midrange... needle adjustment. I suspect that you may be running a bit lean in this range. In order to adjust this, however, requires the carb to be removed and disassembled. So, do you want to go there or not ? Of course, as mentioned already, you can remove a couple of discs on the S/T and that will help to richen the mix slightly across the board. Got to go for now. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 09/21/08 at 07:13:15 Thanks so much, gentlemen. Of course when re-jetting the carb, the dealership also installed the muffler and didn't return the instructions. It can't be too hard to figure out how to remove the disks but I'm going to ask anyway. I'll go out to look at it shortly. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by gazoo07 on 09/21/08 at 08:44:01 Bugaboo, It is very easy to remove or add discs. If you will send me a PM with your e-mail address I will send you 2 pdf files of instructions that come with the muffler and you can save them on your computer or print them out. Gazoo www.lubedealer.com/1lube |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by Bugaboo on 09/24/08 at 18:52:45 Removing 2 disks solved all my problems. I also think I prefer the sound with 6 disks, rather than 8. The bike feels great! Thanks for all your help. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by photojoe on 09/26/08 at 08:15:45 I just spent 15 minutes talking to Bruce at Supertrapp. He was a wealth of information, and didn't rush the call at all. With every change I mentioned, he talked about the importance of the carb being tuned right . He sent me to Summit Racing for parts, saying that ordering directly from Trapp would cost more. I opted for a disk 6 pack, open end cap and the screws w/high temp lube. Total was $55.60 w/shipping. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/08 at 09:02:46 Dont be shy with the lube. I wasnt as careful as I needed to be, ran it a while, when I wanted to add disks, I had a BAD time working those bolts out, hat to replace all of them, as they were corkscrewed.I pached lube in the holes & on the screws, antisieze is your friend. OR is there a different slickum for high temp? I hope Im not in trouble, cuz I want to pull a couple & see how it goes. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by photojoe on 09/26/08 at 09:24:02 Thanks for the tip Justin. For reference, the disk screws sold by Trapp can be found here: http://www.cmsnl.com/products/stainless-bolts-std-6_0304047206/ (Euro store just for reference) and the high temp lube is included with the pack. |
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Title: Re: Supertrapp exhaust Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/26/08 at 10:19:26 Thanxalott. This is the kind of thing I use the "favorite Local Shop" for. Let them make a few bux. |
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