SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219356016

Message started by Gort on 08/21/08 at 15:00:16

Title: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 15:00:16

Suzuki says it's 8.5-1 compression Savage engine only requires 87 octane fuel. According to these articles, there is no advantage seen by using a higher octane, unless your carburetted engine is tuned wrong.

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/autos/aut12.shtm

http://www.merchantcircle.com/blogs/First.Class.Truck.And.Auto.Service.970-330-9038/2008/5/The-Lo

http://www.projectsamurai.com/tech/octane.html

http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

http://www.homeschoolbuyersco-op.org/-tips/details-150.html

http://www.wanderings.net/notebook/Main/IsHighOctaneGasWorthTheMoney

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Will_higher_octane_gas_give_50cc_scooter_more_power

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part3/preamble.html

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 15:31:04

Any of these articles contemplate the effects of high head temps or just the compression factoid?

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by bill67 on 08/21/08 at 15:33:43

I know from experience and trying high octane in cars motorcycles and snowmobiles that it doesn't help power or gas mileage,One of the gas companies here was advertising their gas cleaned the engine, I look it up on the internet and only the highest grade had the cleaner in it

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 15:42:59

5265656C7468696E67000 wrote:

Any of these articles contemplate the effects of high head temps or just the compression factoid?

Lazy-lazy-lazy!!! I go to the effort of researching all this and you want me to re-read it and answer your questions? Seriously though, please read it...it won't take long and there is much good stuff to learn.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 20:05:03

spose I can later - you posted 8 of the 1000's out there - was really just curious if these were the run of the mill - base every thing on comp ratio - that isn't near the whole story, water vs. air cooled, head metal, seasonal blends of fuel, and of course seasonal temps

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 20:27:31

1D2A2A233B272621284F0 wrote:

Okay, okay. To summarize, an engine cannot use a higher octane gas than it was designed for, assuming you have it correctly tuned, and assuming you have not raised the combustion temperature by running the engine too hot. Example: if the fuel mixture is too lean, then the combustion temp will be hotter than it was designed to get, and you will experience pinging/knocking. Higher octane will help alleviate that problem, but the solution is to adjust the fuel mixture correctly. Or, if you idle your air cooled engine too long stationary, the engine will overheat and the combustion temps will raise too high, and you get a lean condition. Or, if you insist on lugging all the time, you may get the pinging/knocking and the higher octane will help that. Or, if you have your timing advanced too far, again the higher octane will help alleviate the pinging. So, unless you have a lean fuel mixture or a timing or overheating issue, or the combustion chamber is fouled with glowing red carbon deposits, a stock engine will see no power difference using a higher octane than the manufacturer recommends.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 21:11:58

that's better! - not all concerns or reasons for higher octane rated fuel involve higher power production - I'll agree super-shell isn't going to increase the power produced by a low comp engine - but that's not the only reason to put it in the tank - one can not tune for random >105f days while stuck in heavy traffic vs. a clean ride at 90-95f - but you can add a little margin with fuel less prone to burn in a flash

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 21:25:28

794E4E475F4342454C2B0 wrote:

And that is exactly why I always use Chevron Supreme in my bike. It was 113 here, last week at 550' above sea level.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by mick on 08/21/08 at 21:27:49

I beg to differ Gort,as I said in another thread,I used a gallon of 110 octain gas in my savage (2002,12,000 miles,K@N air filter,150 main jet,Jardene drag muffler, iridium spark plug,the bike felt like it had a rocket boost every time I gave it gas, however it did nothing for my top speed,still the same 83 mph,I would run it all the time but at $11 bucks a gallon ,anyway probably not good for the engine to run it full time,but it was fun while it lasted.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 21:34:56

32363C342B373A3336323A265F0 wrote:

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by mick on 08/21/08 at 21:46:30

Keep in mind, now, your engine is no longer factory stock. You've made changes to its mixture and breathing. According to the links
I've listed and many more on the 'Net, manufacturers' octane recommendations are for an engine with no alterations.[/quote]

So ! I do all my own maintanance,this winter I will be doing a ring and valve job,new timing chain,new fork seals,it doesn't need the fork seals but I'm taking them apart anyway to put the pair of gaiters on,.
My bike has NEVER refused to start,runs like a swiss watch,and it has never let me down,except a flat tire that I changed myself.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 21:46:52

yes - we still bump our head on the rpm - the '95 is sort of stock - jardine, carb tuned over many hours of plug reads, ir plug, and maybe a tiny bit more air - but still the rpm head bump - the '02 is kind of a different deal with the near open supertrap, long duration cam, and close to 0 air restriction - might do an extra 1000 rpm - but man is it ever screaming - even with a higher flow head, coated cylinder, oblong the time'n trig'r hole to advance it, and this carb ready to go on it - the redline is near the same - you just get there a lot quicker - need the chain drive on it I guess - wonder how the shaved head worked out for kawie10(?)

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 21:53:05

3E3A3038273B363F3A3E362A530 wrote:

So ! I do all my own maintanance,this winter I will be doing a ring and valve job,new timing chain,new fork seals,it doesn't need the fork seals but I'm taking them apart anyway to put the pair of gaiters on,.
My bike has NEVER refused to start,runs like a swiss watch,and it has never let me down,except a flat tire that I changed myself.[/quote]

Not too many guys around who can do that anymore, eh? Remember the days when you never heard of anyone taking his bike to a dealership for work?

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 22:07:39

long gone mostly - even with teenagers and their cars - most "soup" them up with stickers, wheels, and shiny stuff - don't know a water pump from an alternator - where did the know how go :(

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 22:20:26

Pride of accomplishment seems to no longer matter. Question is, does it, anymore? Being able to build a car or do what Mick can do will never get you anywhere. Learning how to rot in a chair while you push keys on a computer, will. I hope I live to see the day that we experience a major power failure for just 1 month. That will separate the men from the boys.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by mick on 08/22/08 at 00:46:10

5665637F6265170 wrote:

I/We (my sister a B/in Law) live on a farm here in Oregon,we have two generators,our water comes from a well,one generator will kick in for the well and the other for the house and my garage appartment,we have quite a few power outages and servived,between my Sister and I we have enough food to last about 6 weeks,plus whatever is growing in our very large garden.
Hey we got through WW11 as kids living on 2 oz of meat 1 egg a week two slices of bread a day,plenty of tea but no sugar, at school every kid was given one oz of consentrated OJ a half pint of milk,and a tablespoon of cod liver oil,those three items gave you every vitimen you needed, today I don't know if that is still good?
there was also a study about drinking sea water done by the royal navy,it seems if you are torpedoed at sea and you end up in a life boat
in the middle of the Alantic without fresh water you should start sipping sea water before you get thirsty,two sailors survived for 60 days without any fresh water in a test,funny you never hear any thing about that any more,but I know it for a fact,the problem most people have is that initial sip ,eeew

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by KwakNut on 08/27/08 at 03:29:03

Generally, if you put high octane fuel into an engine which usually runs (and only needs) low octane fuel, you will lose a little power.

The high octane fuel is more resistant to detonation, and also doesn't light up as easily in the relatively low pressure/temperature environment of a low compression chamber. The slower initial 'light' of the mixture, and relatively slower wave front (because it's designed for a hotter environment) saps power.

You actually want fuel that has just enough octane rating not to pre-ignite when your engine is hot. Anything better than that is a waste, and saps power. I did have some dyno charts where this had been compared on a variety of engines - can't find them right now.

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by luckystiff on 08/27/08 at 11:11:24

I live in the Denver area. I have trouble from time to time with what I perceive to be issues with the higher altitude in my stock '06 S40.
I'm curious if higher octane would help. (cheap and easy to fill er up with the better grade as a precaution if I plan to go high)
Does higher altitude cause a richer, too much fuel for the thin air? and then does a higher octane help, hurt, or neither?

Title: Re: High Octane Fuel no advantage in Savage
Post by bill67 on 08/27/08 at 11:42:03

Makes it richer, octane want help use regular