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General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discovery
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Message started by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/19/08 at 19:16:45

Title: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discovery
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/19/08 at 19:16:45

I was outside hunting down the nests of yellowjackets that plague our place just now. I opened the hoods on the snowcats and found not only a bunch of pissed off bees, but also these carburetors:

http://a311.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/123/l_97998440db2761e1389e40ca0ebc5026.jpg

http://a892.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/49/l_9a763437474ffd755bd4357690a64dcb.jpg

They are hooked to a two-cylinder 440cc engine that lost its oil line and then its life in rapid succession one cold day in the mountains.

I believe the term I've seen here is "drinkin' and thinkin'." I don't drink anymore, though, so I can't blame my questions on that. They came out of my own twisted little mind without help.

Of course, I knew the carburetors were there all along, but never bothered to think of them in the context of how I could use them to screw up my bike. I don't even know what size they are, but they are Mikuni carbs. I'll have to wait until the yellowjackets are all toast before I can gather more information.

The question is: Since I own them already, and it wouldn't cost me to take them out and play with them, is there a way (or a reason) to hook one to my bike? What intrigued me is that I think they are controlled directly by the cable, instead of vacuum. Does this make for a quicker response?

I know bupkiss about carburetors, other than what I have learned here and by studying the one on my bike. If nothing else, I figured this might inspire some discussion from which I might learn something.

Have at it (or me). I'm not married to the idea, so you aren't going to hurt my feelers. I'm just curious.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 20:37:47

I know about zero, BUT, that never stopped me from taking a shot. Since there are 2 on a 440 cc engine, I would say they are small for the Savage.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/19/08 at 20:44:11

Yeah, that thought occurred to me as well. I wondered about making a manifold that would use both the carbs. It would look, uh, unique. I'm hoping those who know will chime in, mainly because I think it's probably a bad idea, but I would like to know why.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 20:47:12

Well, because you would be building just to hope you could synch the carbs & not lose too much performance, since the 2 were meant to feed a 440, not a 650. Might work okay, but I have a hard time seeing an improvement.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Reelthing on 08/19/08 at 21:08:07

make most anything generally work - but you need to figureout what size they are - 1 is liable to be big enough - 440cc but what make of machine is it?

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/20/08 at 04:51:45

It's a Kawasaki Intruder. It was fast. Real fast. Fortunately, I didn't have it for long before it croaked. I'm sure I would have commited suicide by snowbank if I'd have kept playing with that thing.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Reelthing on 08/20/08 at 05:29:51

I must have disfunctional fingers this morning - just don't see for sure
what came on the - looks to be 34mm-38mm

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by bill67 on 08/20/08 at 07:46:02

I would think because its for a 2 cycle that all of the inners would would have to be changed which would cost a lot.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/20/08 at 08:23:17

ReallY? I would never hqave considered a 2 stroke carb as different. Seems to me, air goes in, mixes with fuel, enters the combustion chamber & goes Bang. That the 2 stroke compresses & combusts every time the piston goes up shouldnt affect it, should it? Can you splain this Bill? I am confewzed.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by T Mack 1 on 08/20/08 at 08:48:25

Depends how the 2-stroker is setup. Pre-mix... oil injection... reed valves etc. etc. Can't see it in the pictures.... where's the choke on those carbs????

You may need to run both carbs to get the fuel the 650 needs. Y-pipe :-? ...... but now you are making it a complicated bike.... :-[

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by LANCER on 08/20/08 at 09:22:49

Oh boy, new old toys to play with ! :D

They are indeed Mikuni VM model carbs.
If this engine is a 440 2-stroke engine then the carbs are likely 34-38mm as already mentioned.
I have the Mikuni/Sudco Carb Manuals that I use in the carb kits if you need one for playing with the carbs. It shows all parts in exploded diagrams with numbered parts listings to go with them. It also explains how these carbs work, how to jet and tune, and a bunch more very usable info. If you want one just send a PM to me and we will get'r done. They are cheap so no biggie on that account.

The great thing about these carbs is that every part possible is available and they are cheap, compared to stock and/or new carbs.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by daweise1 on 08/21/08 at 09:08:46

Wow.... mental note, start looking for old, bad snowmachines no one wants anymore......... ;)

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Charon on 08/22/08 at 18:15:27

With the remark about losing its oil line, then its life, I would guess the carbs saw nothing but gas and the oil was injected into the manifold afterwards. Being a 440 two-stroker, the carb has to feed one 220 cc cylinder, twice as often. A too-small carburetor will work just fine on an engine. It may restrict the top speed (remember closing the throttle is very nearly the same as installing a smaller carburetor). But it may just work better at lower speeds (that's why manufacturers install smaller carburetors when they "detune" sportbike engines to make cruisers) because the airflow through it may be faster. Biggest problem I can see is trying to make sure the float bowl is level when the carburetor is installed.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by bill67 on 08/22/08 at 18:24:40

That snowmobile motor runs between 4000 to 8000 rpm,so i think the needle jet and jet needle would be way off for a s40 motor

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/08 at 18:42:58

What's the fuel/air ratio for a 440 2 stroke vs a 650 4 stroke?

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by Charon on 08/22/08 at 19:06:06

The "theoretical" fuel-air ratio is the same for any gasoline engine. Two-stroke engines seem to be set to run richer, perhaps because cooling the piston on a two-stroke is more difficult. A two-stroke piston has a power stroke every revolution, and it can't have an oil jet on its bottom for cooling. Running rich means the extra unburned fuel, by evaporation, carries away some of the excess heat. A lean mixture, on the other hand, burns more slowly, which tends to make the exhaust gas hotter. Side effects are less power, because the heat comes later in the power stroke, an oxidizing environment in the exhaust pipe, because not all the oxygen in the air is burned, and the ever-favorite blue chrome because of higher pipe temperatures.

Title: Re: Headline: Yellowjackets lead to carb discover
Post by bill67 on 08/23/08 at 03:57:29

2 cycles have more power and go faster when you lean them out.