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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Car tire for the back /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219094510 Message started by Jack_650 on 08/18/08 at 14:21:49 |
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Title: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/18/08 at 14:21:49 Okay, I guess this is for "oldfeller" as he's the one I remember who is/has run car tires on his bikes. I'm needing a new rear tire and am liking the idea of a 30k or so tire life. What I'm wondering is is how is the road grip in the turns and for braking. Granted most of my miles are highway miles with a lot of interstate thrown in, but there's still a lot of country and farm roads around where I live here in MN that are fun to run. I know my back tire is getting down there when it starts to feel skittish in the turns, which I assume is because the tread face is starting to flatten out. Am I to expect that same "feel" when using a car tire that starts out with a flatter tread face than we get on a "real" bike doughnut? Oh yeah, can we still run the appropriate sized bike tube in there? Or do we go with a car tube? I want to run at least one moderately long run before this year's over so the sooner I get a new gripper on the back there, the better. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/18/08 at 15:45:25 6F44464E7A131015250 wrote:
Notice the treads going up the sidewalls of your bike tire. When you bank, this side tread gives you important grip on the road....thats why its there. A car tire does not have this feature and therefore does not have the same grip on the road if asked to bank on a motorcycle. Is the extra mileage worth the reduction in stability? Suzuki doesn't think so, which is why they didn't fit car type treads on their product. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/18/08 at 17:00:52 Of course Suzuki also be the folks who put those IRC things on our bikes at the factory. And the expensive, wear quick timing chains. Oh yeah, and that wonderful seat we all love to sit on - for thirty minutes. It's just that I've read several different things about car tires on bikes, and there are some pretty sticky tires out there. That's why I'm asking them that's done it before I give it a try. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by bill67 on 08/18/08 at 17:03:31 Car tires are flat on bottom motorcycle tires are round so they lean over easy |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Max_Morley on 08/18/08 at 17:45:49 Search for "the dark side" in online motorcycle topics for more pro and cons of this. Us sidecar folks use them because we don't lean anymore, but with some caveats, one the rim really is not shaped correctly for a car tire. I had to use 80 PSi and lots of tire lube stuff to get the bead to seat and I'm sure breaking it when the time comes will be an adventure. You will also have to decide what vehicle uses the tire you want to buy it in most cases as the tire store don't want a liability lawsuit for selling you a tire that may be involved in an accident and even hinted at being the cause. Many heavy cruiser folks have switched and are happy, but I don't think the sport touring crowd is interested. Max |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by ratdog472 on 08/18/08 at 18:30:43 Recommended reading: http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1179508142 http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1207609869 |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Brad_THMP3R on 08/18/08 at 19:39:50 Hey Gort... not to bash but man, you don't have to quote what someone says every time you reply. If it's in the same thread, we all kinda know what you're responding to. Just to save you some time. ;) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/08 at 19:51:16 DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM. IT IS TOO DANGEROUS. ============================================ barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT. HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA. HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SEAT BAGS. DO NOT TRY THIS MOD. IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO. I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SEAT BAGS). (signed) Oldfeller ======================== Well now, another discussion on flat tires on round turning bikes. You have positions already set out, Bill & Gort taking the "it ain't gonna work" required position with the others taking more moderate stances in the face of mounting evidence. Here are the facts -- on the last mountain trip I rode my bike with the car tire on it. I let the other riders ride my bike (and they all did) so they could see what it was like. They can chime in if they want to. I went around mountain turns, I drug pegs with the best of them. Lancer and I did not go down to grass eating horizontal during the whole trip. As a matter of fact I emergency braked to a quick dead stop in the middle of a deadly siren "magnetic attack" turn so them durn car tires can flat do the job. FREE Advice -- stay with 155-80r15 or smaller tire. Why? Fit to the wheel well inside the fender and clearance to the belt and guard. Clearance to the left inside of the swing arm. Are car tires different? Yep -- takes you a week or so to get used to the differences. Nothing your hind brain (balance center/reflexes) can't learn how to accommodate. Are they safe? Yep -- just as safe as you are. It isn't the tires that make you go down, it's you. Do you use the side of the tire? No, you use the bottom and leading edge just like you do on the front tires on your car -- same wear type and pattern. Just a lot less of it. You are not putting a ton plus of sideways drag force on your back tire going around the turn like you do in a car -- all bike forces are down nominal forces. Do they last longer? Yep -- I have well over 1 IRC worth of wear on my original car tire and it is just now literally just now fully broken in. Buy a tire you like as you are going to have it for FIVE or more years before you wear it out. And that is with me intentionally putting long black marks on Toymaker's concrete driveway just so he would have reminders of the trip that he could see every day both coming and going .... And who says you can't darkside a squid bike? :-? ::) Some of you folks need to plan to attend these little get-togethers that we have periodically. You miss a lot of neat stuff. Ask Toymaker or Ed L. or Lancer (have both seen and ridden) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Cory on 08/18/08 at 21:13:26 the car tire idea sounds cool to me if they last longer , would a shop put it on for you or since it's a car tire would you have to put it on yourself ? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/18/08 at 21:16:08 You would definitely have to put it on yourself. No shop will mount a car tire to a bike rim because of liability issues. I am thinking of doing this mod as well by the way. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Cory on 08/18/08 at 21:21:24 heck yeah now days it's all about saving money and if you can save money by making a tire work that will last longer i am all up for it . It's amazing what things you can do with a bike . |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/18/08 at 22:03:25 I may not try Metzler out... if ya get my drift. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 06:20:28 Of course, we would never do anything so foolish as that, we've got better sense than doing something stupid -- it's all a theoretical discussion. Last count we've got 5-6 theoretical scientists on the list, so far no flaws in the theory as practiced. Here is my best practical theory for size and cost and quick ease of purchase. It is a Wal-Mart 155-80r15 (picture is from a bigger tire, wally is a bit slack about such things) Remember to tell them it is for the spare tire on your daughter's 1968 Volkswagen Beetle so they will sell it to you. Mount it with the raised white letters to the right and the black side towards your drive belt. Use a new tube, the largest 15 inch bike tube you can buy. http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4061598&year=&make=&model=&vehicle_path=false&tire_spec_selected=&tire_width=155&tire_ratio=80&tire_diameter=15&tire_type=&tire_load_index=&tire_load_range=&tire_speed_rating=&tire_equivalent_load_index=&tire_size= |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by mornhm on 08/19/08 at 06:49:44 I for one can't imagine how much your traction must be reduced when you use the edge of a car tread when compared to a motorcycle tire with a rounded profile tread. Incidently, if you are using the same edge as a car does, you're leaning the wrong way around the corners. Probably isn't going to be a problem because of the light weight of a Savage, but car tire sidewalls aren't made for that kind of loading. If you are leaning your car as far as you lean a MC when you're draggin hard part, you need to join one of those side shows. ;) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/08 at 07:07:16 The thread rolls with the turn keeping the contact patch almost constant up to a point. You can't drag pegs with the same patch, it will reduce at some point. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 07:46:39 I wonder if I could tell them I am putting up a tire swing for a snotty little rich kid & it has to be new & I want THIS one... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 07:47:08 The graduate engineering teams who design tires take into account all the factors needed to produce a safe tire for the application. Motorcycle tires are deliberately designed to provide superior traction compared to car tires. Tread patterns are different, the rubber is 'stickier', and so on. For these reasons, they do not last as long as car tires. Any back yard mechanic can jam any tire on just about any rim. I've seen brutes in Tijuana do it all the time. If you are lucky, you may ride thousands of miles on it without incident. If you are un-lucky, you will have problems. Problems are the last thing you need on a motorcycle. Tire manufacturers' engineering teams know this practice is not safe, resulting in the manufacturers doing what they can to stop the foolish from ignoring safety precautions. They do this by funding public education on the subject, ,trying to restrict sales to the proper application, and with disclaimers. All you have between the road and your body is the tires. Why would anyone presume to know more than engineering teams, and recommend the wrong tire for an application just because he got away with it so far? Motorcycle tires are stickier and have better side treads for banking. Motorcycle tread patterns are far different than car tire patterns, and the 'Net is full articles about the handling problems when mixing dissimilar patterns on a motorcycle. Don't you want that edge in case you have an emergency need for it? The motivation stated for switching to a car tire is the saving of $. How many beers would it take to make up the difference? How many cigarettes? How about not eating out for a few nights, and instead spend the money on the safest tire? What would you loved ones want you to do? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 07:51:22 Thats right Gort, Thats exactly what the engineers would say & it HAS merit. However, the people who put the car tire on the bike KNOWS they are stepping into a compromised situation. They did it. Its their right. Its their choice. Its their LIFE. & So far, none has suffered ONCE. Now, should someone call the POleese & tell them to go save these people from themselves? Should they be jailed, because they are recklessly endangering others? They have compromised their traction to save $$$ & might just fall down at any time, thereby putting all drivers near them at risk & pedestrians, too. JAIL them all.. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 08:12:17 0131222713252A30372631430 wrote:
Sometimes a reply makes no sense if you are replying to a post that is on a previous page, especially if the topic has changed. Quoting the post I am commenting on provides clarity and continuity. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 08:30:54 554A4C4B5651605060584A460D3F0 wrote:
Of course not. If someone wants to risk his life and does so with full knowledge of the risks, that is his business. BUT, what we often have on this site are obviously un-informed or in-experienced people who are earnestly asking advice on safety issues, and who are receiving answers from others who have chosen to dis-regard safety considerations and present their solutions as the correct path. The only reason I open my mouth is to attempt to provide balance, so the person making the request can decide what is best for himself. I know I'm going to get slammed by disagreeing with others, but its unethical to recommend unsafe practices to newbies without first giving them all the facts. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/08 at 09:00:52 Engineers design a tire to meet the requirements of the broad public. From the 2 wheeled cager to Johny peg grinder. And for the same reason that we rejet our bikes we select tires to meet our needs. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Royal on 08/19/08 at 09:02:04 If anyone is considering putting a car tire on their bike please PM me and I'll give you my information so you can fill out your life insurance policy. I'd consider we both have about a 50-50 chance of lucking out. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 09:18:26 All the dire warnings, in the face of current & ongoing SUCCessful, hard ridden, car tires on Savages by ( I think) 5 current riders? & they call ME a doomer! |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by doc5446 on 08/19/08 at 09:19:43 When I bought my bike, the PO must've never leaned into turns, cuz the only wear on the tire was a flat spot around the perimeter. I mean there was 2 inches of bald tire surrounded by plenty of good tread. I replaced it with a slightly beefier Perelli and it was like a brand new machine! I guess what I'm getting at is that I could not imagine riding my bike with a car tire on the rear, esp. ripping through tight turns. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 09:23:00 In one sense Gort is right -- you ARE taking a risk. For several weeks your bike will handle quite a bit differently and YOU SHOULD BE VERY CAUTIOUS during this hind-brain retraining period of time. Your ass is on the line if you take it out into heavy traffic too early and it is your ass, after all. Give yourself time to explore rapid braking and hard turns before you go out to play on the freeway to find your high speed rumba point. Read the whole thread -- note my mentioning just how the new sensations make you feel when you first feel them. (you too will need a fresh set of undies at some point in time) Remember to jack your preload on your shocks up all the way to the highest setting (you have reduced tire clearance) and start out at 33 pounds of air pressure in the tire for max stability. The tire below is fully broken in (took more than a year to do so) and is ready to go anywhere and do anything. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1179508142 (read the whole thing) http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=569071&size=1 Beyond that, every list is equipped with at least one nay-sayer and a vocal peanut gallery. Generally both chime in on "car tires on a bike" as it seems like their natural turf to them. Sometimes you have to consider if the opinions are from people who have done things or from people who are equipped with fingers and a keyboard and a vocal opinion. The way to sort them out is to look in the Tech Section for the folks who have actually done stuff and contributed real content to the site. ======================== Now, if I told you that riding a motorcycle fast on mountain roads required you to give up on using your rear brake for quick stops -- would you listen? You need to rev your motor more and use engine braking to slow down if you need to and ALWAYS ALWAYS concentrate on leaning on through the turn ..... never give up, keep on leaning -- keep on leaning --- Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by mornhm on 08/19/08 at 09:59:21 47646C6E6D64646D7A080 wrote:
LOL - this is going to show you that I worked as an engineer for Firestone and Dunlop for years, and that I do all my own maintenance and have rebuilt several vehicles how? There are lots of people who frequent the Tech Section who don't know what they are talking about and lots that don't visit the Tech Section who have plenty of experience - granted this doesn't mean we know what we are talking about. ;) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 10:18:54 Oh no, my little flamer -- for you I would suggest people click on your name, then scroll down to the bottom of your profile and just click on "Show the last XX posts made by Mornm ---GO!---" crank that sucker up to the 25 maximum, hit the "go" button and instantly review your site-wide high value content contribution level. Humbling ain't it? Reminds me not to get into pissing contests with the ones who live for such stuff -- t'aint really worth the effort. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 10:26:08 There is a substantial difference between testing done by amateurs of limited experience under casual, random conditions, and professional testing done under strict controls which go to great lengths to duplicate every road condition. Assuming that several amateur riders casually testing a design alteration produces any kind of meaningful road data is an enormous mistake. Tire engineers spend great sums of money and research time deciding what is safest for an application. If safety is your concern, they are the ones to listen too. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/19/08 at 11:59:52 5C6F6975686F1D0 wrote:
Putting a car tire on a motorcycle rim is no feat for an amateur. M/C tires are hard enough. This alone made my decision for me. I may be able to slip on a tubeless tire, but wasn't able to do the tubed version w/o pinching it. Putting on a car tire in place of a m/c tire is a gate for the amateur. And lab conditions simulate the real world, but those that have done it know it does not replace it. A well trained hind-brain has more computing power and more sensitivity then the sensors used in testing. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 12:39:13 766572736C6167656E31000 wrote:
Putting a car tire on a motorcycle rim is no feat for an amateur. M/C tires are hard enough. This alone made my decision for me. I may be able to slip on a tubeless tire, but wasn't able to do the tubed version w/o pinching it. Putting on a car tire in place of a m/c tire is a gate for the amateur. And lab conditions simulate the real world, but those that have done it know it does not replace it. A well trained hind-brain has more computing power and more sensitivity then the sensors used in testing.[/quote] Tire development and testing is done on multi-million dollar test tracks and centers, using every kind of road surface, simulating every kind of weather condition, with state of the art equipment. It is only under these conditions that the correct tires can be chosen for a particular application. Forcing a tire on a rim and then riding around to work or on cruises is no way to prove manufacturers recommendations are incorrect, and hardly a way to determine if the application is safe. Tijuana, Mexico is full of dirt floor used tire shops employing Mexicans who never saw a day of school, who will force anything onto a rim so long as the rim diameter is correct. They do it all the time and charge a few dollars. Its no problem for them and they've learned to do it out of necessity. The same service can be had in Mexican tire shops in Santa Ana, Pico Rivera, Norwalk and Los Angeles, CA. This takes no skill. It takes brute force. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/19/08 at 12:57:02 Awwrite. I've been reading the responses. I am ready to step out on a limb here. I am willing to go so far as to say this. Gort wont be trying it. Apparently, there are some who, having done the homework & assesed the risks & ride variations sufficiently for at least one to make high speed passes thru mountains in a sure footed enough manner to not scare a man who admittedly is NOT physically able to tolerate any major impacts. This is waht the word Controversy entails, more than one side, neither with definitive information to say what simply must be. We are men. We do things. Some of them work, some work well, some not so well & some explode on liftoff. I plan on trying it. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/19/08 at 13:01:22 And if I am understanding the instructions properly from the tech section, the only real mod was to do something about the fender mount bolts, so if it isn't to your liking, change it back. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/19/08 at 15:00:10 And actually, no mods at all are required if you avoid the ridiculously huge tire Oldfeller used! ;D No amount of expensive equipment or fancy engineering calculations can duplicate the real-world. Simulation and approximation, and lab test conditions ARE NOT the real thing. So what's better a radial tire or a bias ply tire? M/Cs have both... What gives better dry surface performance? Which is better on wet surfaces? Which is better on dirt? How big a factor does tread pattern play? Rubber compound? Have I stirred the pot enough here? ;D |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Demin on 08/19/08 at 15:13:40 Oh you said avoid ridicoulsly large tire. ;D http://www.chopperexchange.com/productimages/more/53826.jpg |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 16:47:37 Denim, is this your bike and if so, how does it ride differently than with the stock tire? This is a great opportunity to learn about handling, braking and softness or hardness in ride, using a very extreme sized tire. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 16:57:32 DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM. IT IS TOO DANGEROUS. ============================================ barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT. HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA. HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SEAT BAGS. DO NOT TRY THIS MOD. IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO. I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SEAT BAGS). (signed) Oldfeller ==================== Now that's a tire !! Proud of you, my boy -- show us the way. Oldfeller (shame it's a harley with almost bare handlebars .... would look good as a Savage) Barry, mods & more mods are required on a sliding scale depending on how big you go -- it was Phelonius who said no mods were needed if you went with 135/80-15 to which I replied "watch out for the 135s that are simply a shorter tread width layed on a 145 body -- you will still have to do the left side bolt mods". We have folks having to do left side bolt head mods simply to put on bigger motorcycle tires -- I think some sort of mod will be required for all car tires, personally. Folks find out about shock compression and lateral movement under stress when the bolt heads show up eating up their tires. Point being if you have to mod, mod it all the way then slug in a 155-80r15 and get something for your effort. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/19/08 at 17:42:37 Don't worry Oldfeller! I've got my sights on a 155/80-15 Comp T/A. I've taken measurements, and with my chain mod and 12.5" shocks, those tires will slide in there nicely with no other mods necessary! ;D |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Demin on 08/19/08 at 17:54:00 No,wish it was mine.That is one of Roger Bourgett's bikes.He was one of the originators of the fat tire craze.He was putting Viper tires on bikes in the mid 90s.I saw him in Daytona a few years ago draggin' pegs with one.I'm not a big fan of the huge tires out there now,even designed for a bike once you start getting over a 200mm it starts to track unevenly with the front tire. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 20:03:17 Gort, they can tell you all they want, but if you truly want to understand what bump steer really means and what rumba really feels like, there is only one way for you to really really know. You gotta take a little walk on the wild side .... 8-) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 20:36:02 2F0C0406050C0C0512600 wrote:
Lemme tell you somethin.....many moons ago, Gort (Art) the wise assed trouble maker used to stand on the seat of his old beat to hell filthy '52 Harley while riding everyday on the street with no license plates, registration or drivers license. This smart ass wore a steel WW1 German helmet, which if he had hit his head on the ground would have crushed his skull. He obeyed only the traffic laws that he felt like, road on bald tires, and cursed any cager who gave him a disgusted look. He survived somehow and never had a spill. I look back on those days and wonder how I made it. And I worry for the young fellows today who also throw caution aside. Don't believe me? Heres 1 of 3 pics of me on the way to my high school graduation. I wore the graduation gown while I drove to the ceremony, and the bike threw oil and grease all over it. I refused to allow any traditional H.S. pics to be taken of me. My old man, God bless his soul, never forgave me over that. http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk80/tlukatch/DADHSGRADUATION4.jpg |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 21:32:44 Gort the younger was a wild child, now he is older and wiser and has his regrets. Ah, don't we all -- them regrets, that is. All old men still feel the same inside as they were in their twenties, just stuck inside much older bodies. We make lots of stupid mistakes along the way (none of which were fatal, for us anyway). Them that are younger are still due a few mistakes, so let them have their fun (and let them have their funky tires and their strange bikes). Us that are older will make up some even stranger strange things that allow us to carry on in as much as we can, anyway. It's called life, you just keep on doing it as long as you can having as much fun as you can in between the regrettable parts. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 21:43:43 5B7870727178787166140 wrote:
Yeah Oldfeller, I guess your right. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/19/08 at 22:20:00 Well, I guess I'm not sorry I started this topic up again after all. Since I've already gone to the 11 1/2" (or 12 1/2" I don't remember) Harley shocks and am running them on the middle setting I don't think I'll have vertical clearance problems. Sounds like I should probably go with around a 145/80 or 145/90 radial with a big 15" bike radial tube in it. Then go with the softest road gripping rubber and the roundest tread face edges. As for tread face design I'm wondering if the standard blocky car type pattern, or the "V" cut sort of look I've seen on some would be better for tracking down the road; in water, sand or gravel. I take this bike everywhere there's something I want to see. Any thoughts on that point? Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/20/08 at 03:39:22 Jack, I've got 2 cents for ya... A block-type tread pattern will work best on sand/gravel... a v-groove pattern will work best if riding thru rain (makes me shutter a little, I hate riding in rain.) Actually, slicks work best on clean/dry pavement so I don't think it will matter that much which of the above you choose for that...even my "snot-slick" stock IRC works good enough for that ;D BTW, I'm not completely disgusted with the stock tire, but even on dry pavement when rolling on the throttle coming out of turns, the back end likes to drift just a little, and stay off the white and yellow painted lines for goodness sake ;) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/20/08 at 06:09:31 DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM. IT IS TOO DANGEROUS. ============================================ barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT. HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA. HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SEAT BAGS. DO NOT TRY THIS MOD. IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO. I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SEAT BAGS). (signed) Oldfeller ============================ Tire Rack is the best place to do tire research concerning rain grip or whatever other characteristic you are looking for. Tire Rack will also show you ALL the tires available in the size you are looking for. Remember, USA DOT has very restrictive high temperature high load at high speed tests that tires MUST PASS to be sold in the USA -- not all tires you see on the internet can be sold in the USA because they won't pass DOT 139. (a very durn restrictive test, BTW) Tire Rack is where I go to look at tires -- then I try to find a way to avoid their shipping charges if at all possible. They are not always the cheapest place either. And if you do try to buy something there you had better know durn well what car that tire comes stock on or you get an electronic "No way, Jose" from them as they are very careful not to sell an "inappropriate tire". http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=BFGoodrich&tireModel=Radial+T%2FA&vehicleSearch=false&partnum=58SR5RADTARWL2&fromCompare1=yes&place=0 The BF Goodrich TA 155-80r15 gets excellent marks for rain grip, hell, it gets excellent marks for everything except for the good marks for snow and ice. It got excellent for hydroplaning resistance and mileage (wear) which you very rarely ever see together. People slam tires real bad in those reviews generally, so the good to excellent reviews this tire got are "outstanding" compared for what people generally give a tire. Poke around the site a bit -- it is an excellent resource for hunting up a strange tire. Look up your existing tires you got on your car right now and see what sort of crap you really have according to the reviews. Spending time on Tire Rack can change your tire buying habits ... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by joeh100 on 08/20/08 at 09:07:00 - |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/20/08 at 12:01:10 In the spirit of experimentation I did a tour of every tire shop in the medium sized (50k) town I live in. Not a one even could find a 155/15 in any of their books, even the specialty catalogues. Our Walmart is next to a Sam's club so they don't do tires - in stock or ordered. And Sam's seems to only love 205/15 and up. I guess the late 50's VWs aren't the big market they once were. It just seems wrong to pay almost as much for shipping as you do for the item itself. But I've not given up. there's still Sears to try. And then of course Fleet/Farm and the likes. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by bill67 on 08/20/08 at 13:08:50 The smaller the width the quicker a motorcycle handles,So it would have to handle a lot slower with a wide tire, if that what you want then you should go to the widest you can get. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/22/08 at 06:01:37 DO NOT PUT A CAR TIRE ON A BIKE RIM. IT IS TOO DANGEROUS. ============================================ barry68v10 PUT A TA 155/80r15 ON THE BACK OF HIS BIKE, DROVE IT A COUPLE OF MILES TO A SERVICE STATION AND BLEW IT UP (that's exploded it for you who haven't heard yet) AT 175 PSI TRYING TO GET THE BEAD TO SEAT. HE HAD SPRAYED TRUCK BED LINER ON HIS SPOKES TO SEAL THEM AND GOT SOME ON THE BEAD AREA. HE DID DAMAGE TO HIS HEARING AND SHREDDED HIS SEAT BAGS. DO NOT TRY THIS MOD. IT IS FORMALLY UNAPPROVED FOR LIST MEMBERS TO DO. I FORMALLY RECANT THIS MOD AS IT IS TOO DANGEROUS TO YOU AND YOUR EARS AND YOUR HANDS AND YOUR EYES (AND TO YOUR SEAT BAGS). (signed) Oldfeller ============================================= joeh100, some of us do wear our IRCs all the way around the edges even when running a flat bottomed car tire on the back end. this is the back tire worn round nice & tight http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/mounted.jpg this is the front tire worn round nice and tight http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/DSCF0018_Medium.JPG Bill67, you are just guessin' about speed of manoever based on what you have read. Fact is that the front tire controls rate of lean, not the back tire. The front tire is always the orchestra leader. Say you want to take a hard right hand 90 degree turn. Rider shifts his mass and very slightly counter-steers the front tire. A bike back tire responds by rolling the whole bike over its round circumference which takes XX time to respond. A car tire responds by simply shifting the contact patch from the center to position to the right position (flexing the right sidewall slightly). The front tire is still calling the tune, but it gets more response out of less input when working with the car tire as the whole bike doesn't have to rotate around near as much. Actually, the pair of round bike tires is quite a bit slower to respond as it has to rotate the entire mass of the bike to accomplish its desired change. Car tires are quicker to respond than bike tires and take less lean to get the same amount of directional change. My bike is more nimble now than it was with IRCs mounted on it. Now, since you get more turn for your degree of rotation and your bike sits taller on the car tire, what does it take to drag a peg? Answer is turn speeds and sideways accelerations you can't get on IRC tires or other normal bike tires under any circumstances. And it also explains why in the middle of a siren killer right hand turn that spits other riders into the left side embankment I can do a quick emergency stop and pull off the right hand side of the road. I had greater braking patch available and more turn radius left in reserve so I could still do additional things when another stock biker was totally out of stuff to do. Plus, I knew I was nowhere near the limit and had lots of stuff left. I didn't even squall the rear tire (I get a clear audible feedback that the edge of danger has arrived!). But then again, you will never try it yourself, so you will never believe it anyway. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/22/08 at 06:35:13 Jack_650, If you cannot find a tire locally, go to Wal-Mart.com and search for tires. Once you get to the tire selector, punch in 155-80r15. You will get the raised white letter TA we have been talking about as that is the only one they have got. Punch in the stuff to buy the tire -- during this process you will given a set of stores in the zip code you live in to chose from. Pick one. It doesn't matter if they have a tire store or not, the tire will show up at their Service Desk in about 3 days. They will call you when it arrives. You pay for it there. Total cost from Wal-Mart is same same as buying from Tire Rack as Tire Rack charges $15-$20 for shipping separately. NOTE: if you know someone who works for Wal-Mart they get a nice employee discount that works for internet ordered tires. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by bill67 on 08/22/08 at 07:11:07 Motorcycle racers should start using car tires to go faster around the track,but I guest its a well kept secret |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/22/08 at 07:30:30 As Justin would say "I think it is beginning to smell like a conspiracy to me". Who sponsors all the race teams? Dunlop and other bike tire makers. Who makes the required same tires for all the racers to wear that day. Dunlop/Goodyear (same company, BTW). But soon you will know for sure ... or will you? When you go to the Darkside you have to be initiated and take all them vows of secrecy ... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/22/08 at 07:48:24 Never been one who's big on traditions. Can't stand the high-fives and the circle hand bumps. But a blood oath to keep the secrets of the "DARKSIDE", that I might could get into. Have meetings on midnight on Thursdays to eat tomato soup with fish crackers and measure each others tread depth for alignment with zodiac moon charts. Maybe at Stonehenge. Then on the meeting nights with a full moon we all go out and pop wheelies with the extra traction we get. Since I have no experience yet with this "new technology" I'm kinda expecting some extra stability on gravel roads. Nothing to base it on but a hunch, but I think the extra width and tread on the ground might make the back-end feel not quite so skittish with all that loose material under foot. I know ya'll are all waiting a report. Guess I'll go order one today since my Dunlop is flat across the tread face from my latest trip to Florida last summer. Yeah, I went online to Walmart and that's the smallest tire I could find. I was in hopes of finding a 145 just to stay a little narrower, but it looks like that's not going to happen. They want a few $$ more for the tire than TireRack. TireRack however listed $42 to ship to my area. Not a hard decision to make really. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by joeh100 on 08/22/08 at 07:57:32 70535B595A53535A4D3F0 wrote:
I was talking about the back tire. The stock IRC. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/22/08 at 09:29:34 444F4A4A1011260 wrote:
I got to tell you Bill, that was a good one. I'm still laughing over that one. Keep 'em coming! |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 08/22/08 at 13:39:39 272C29297372450 wrote:
http://www.sportbikerider.us/Shared_Code/New/ShowImage.cfm?Picture_ID=216610&dsn=SBRPW http://ian-gus-scott.gonetoosoon.co.uk/image/full/260/181270.jpg Elbows down on ordinary street tyres in Deals Gap and around a roundabout in Peterborough, UK. I wonder if these bikes could lean any further and corner faster on a set of some 155/80-15 all season specials. On a perfect day I just barely dare to get me knee down on my commuter bike with commuter tyres but wouldn't try it with car rubber. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/22/08 at 14:27:00 I think this is the application you're looking for... http://www.bdogeng.com/racing/gallery05/infinion/slides/DSC08846.JPG |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/23/08 at 06:09:41 7350585A595050594E3C0 wrote:
Oldfeller, I just logged onto the Walmart site and it now says a 155/80-15 is not available. Two or three days ago, I went to check the price and it was $85 with free shipping. I attempted several different zip codes and got the same response, "no can do." Something there has recently changed... Therefore I got on ebay and ordered one, should be here in a handfull of days...and I saved $1.79 over the previous Walmart price ;D |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/23/08 at 10:23:18 If WallMart is going to let me down then the hunt is on again. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/23/08 at 13:31:44 Won't know until Monday but BFG may have discontinued the 155-80r-15. Walmart has seemed to drop them. Sears still show them on their computers but a phone call to the BFG automated help says not available. So being the resourceful fella that I am I went online to Cocker Tire. They have several tires in the size range (125-155) from folks like Firestone, Michelin, etc. They also still list the BFG but there's no one to answer the phone until Monday morning either to see if they have any in stock. And they have the lowest price I've seen for the BFG with vary reasonable shipping. Grrr . . . Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/08 at 17:04:43 What!?? Your Darkside chapter gets fish crackers with their tomato soup ??!! Whoa, I feel cheated. They don't even try to heat our clotted cold tomato soup up over them little pitiful cans of pale blue burning sterno any more. Instead, they make us drink it cold after pouring it down the center tread channel of a 7 and 7/8" wide Yokohama 17" diameter racing radial. Theory is the smoking tire is supposed to still be hot from a Suggo style burn-out so that way we don't need to lite us up any cans of sterno, we can just open them and drink them directly as a hand-to-hand communal libation to the gods of good cornering ... :-? ..... they give you guys little cheesie fish crackers, I'm jealous. They won't even give us any bits of cheese cloth to squeeze out the last of the sterno juice. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/08 at 17:38:22 Jack, find us a TA somewhere and I'll go ahead and get one while they are still available. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Max_Morley on 08/23/08 at 17:41:38 I used "Universal Vintage Tire" to get the 135R15 for the back of the Tug Savage. They also 145R15 listed. No aspect ratio so I'd guess 85 or higher. Max Edit. mine is a Firestone brand and not very rounded. Phelonius also has one on the back of his Savage Tug a Michelin I think Look for his posts. http://www.universaltire.com/cart.php?target=product&product_id=25126&category_id=330 |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/23/08 at 18:11:54 Hey, somebody finked us out to the Bureau of Officious Nonsense, Eternally Repeated. Them folks at BONER has done got them a hard-on about some folks theoretically buying VW tires by quantities of one (1) for unauthorized uses and them BONERs have actually done gone and outlawed all single item sales of VW tires. We will have to band together in little groups of two or four to do our dirty little business now. Gort, have you been sending emails again? Shame on you !! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-ec2f_HGfU&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaIj1XrmvLM&feature=related |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/23/08 at 19:00:14 7F5C5456555C5C5542300 wrote:
Hers some leads for VW Beetle tires: http://www.vwparts.net/135tire.html http://www.vwparts.net/145tire.html http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6640 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6650 http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D6644 http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=145SR15&Category_Code=VWT1 http://www.jbugs.com/store/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=135SR15&Category_Code=VWT1 |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 08/24/08 at 02:05:06 4D61785F4D6F726C6579000 wrote:
Citroen 2CVs have 135-15 tyres so also 2CV restorers should be able to tell where they get their tyres from. The size would fit nicely without any clearance problems. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/08 at 05:00:41 Here are a couple of more videos. First, a beautiful round cornered Perelli car tire -- best functioning of the Darkside tires. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAHlbSzwjsg&feature=related Do you think them Louisiana bayou flat-bangers and big "V" guys are getting into them car tires or what? Turn the sound on, you gotta listen to this second video, the sheer boyish glee bubbling in them guys voices ..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pgu0p9ddmMw&NR=1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTpPBrDhub0&feature=related Are they having any fun yet ??? yup. Even them cute little girls like them darkside tires on their daddy's bikes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrckWejSZgw&feature=related |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/24/08 at 08:33:54 I think there are still 7 tires for sale on ebay, all 155/80-15 Radial T/As. Do a search for 155/80-15 or add "tire" to the end... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/24/08 at 12:21:24 Cocker tire is listing some even narrower 135 and 145 Firestone radials on their site, as well as the 155-80r BFG which was the cheapest price I saw for it. I'm calling in the morning to see what's up. Their shipping prices are pretty reasonable too. At least I know I'll be getting a tire of some sort within the next week or so. How do the Firestones rate with the BFG's and the Goodyears? I would love to have the name Perrilli on the back of the bike if there was a size and a reasonable price tag to go with it. Yeah, the Minnesota sect of the "DarkSiders Ltd." organization is a hearty breed indeed. Hot soup, extra chunky style, with a little sweet corn mixed in for added texture. They do have written into the bylaws though (due to cholesteral issues) that we don't get the cheesy fish crackers, but rather the round little oyster crackers. They Cite the same legal reasons that the custom shop used when they wouldn't make a hitch for the Savage. "We might get sued." Gotta go try on my robes for the initiation rituals that are coming up pretty soon. Ride safe and prosper as Spock might say. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/24/08 at 12:30:55 2B00020A3E575451610 wrote:
Ride long and proper \VL |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/24/08 at 12:32:35 Gort my man, links look interesting. The real VW tires are narrower and I like the look of the rounded wrap around tread faces on some of them. Maybe I should have our "DarkSider Ltd" chapter up here order up an honorary set of robes for you. Just in case. Thanks for the sites. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/24/08 at 13:30:58 Will the tubes on the Coker website fit our rims? Not sure if valve stems would be in the same place or not... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/24/08 at 13:35:18 567D7F77432A292C1C0 wrote:
Real VW tires are narrower than 135, 145, 155 x15? What size are the originals? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/24/08 at 14:07:03 I think 165r15 is/was the most common stock size...but there was a craze to put much smaller tires on the front...hence the 135r15. Haven't dealt with a stock bug in about 15 years or so... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/24/08 at 14:47:11 Earlier in this thread members were having difficulty locating 155/15 tires for the rear wheel of their Savage. Apparently this size is required due to clearance limitations. The links I provided in the earlier post were for 135, 145 & 155/15 tires. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/24/08 at 16:14:44 Gort's right, only a crazy person would try to cram a 165-15 into the standard Savage fender with the belt drive still in place. Rub city. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/24/08 at 20:16:12 Well crazyfeller, I mean oldfeller - you're going to end an inspiration to us all. Cocker Tire seems to have about the best prices and selection as well as the most reasonable shipping costs so far that I've seen. I'll know in the morning about the BFG 155 TA and will let ya'll know the deal. If not available, I'm leaning towards the 145 Firestone. I'm going to be trying for the tallest tire I can get under the fender for gas mileage don't ya know. With my longer shocks I'm sure I've ample clearance. The down low view of the car tire on the bike in one of gort's links is pretty impressive. Tread face to highway flat and in the turns looks huge. Maybe my rear brakes will actually be useful now. I'm all excited. After this tire thing I only need to change the front brakes, change the brake fluid, do something about the fork oil, open up and check the cam chain adjuster, do oldfeller's air filter mod, lube my speedo cable, find the rattle from my windshield . . . Oh the opportunities awaiting me. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 08/25/08 at 00:44:55 13383A32066F6C69590 wrote:
If you want the tallest tyre you can get, your 165-15 is actually a 165/80-15 and is nominally only 132mm tall. I was about to fit a 155/80 sometime in 1996 but it was too low as I also wanted the tallest tyre I could get without resorting to chain drives. A normal 150/90-15 motorcycle tyre is the tallest, my Avon was 137mm tall and 158mm wide and would rub to fender, fender bolts, swing arm, belt plus belt cover unless I compromised with rear wheel alignment and belt tension. Not very fun, but at least it was tall. Now it's my wife's bike running just fine with a 140/90 and I've no intention to play with larger sizes anymore. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/25/08 at 07:58:23 Anybody know anything about the reputation of these tires? http://www.vredesteintire.com/ They have all the sizes we could ever be interested in for bikes. They have great prices. And the tires look great with a wide variety of tread designs. and I thought this decision was going to be an easy one to implement. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/25/08 at 08:42:15 Just got off the phone placing my order for the BFG 155/80R-15 T/A. Cost $68.00 + shipping. Price went up $6.00 since the page was last updated. Guy said they had them in stock. http://store.coker.com/prod/p15580r15-bfg-ta-rwl.html 1-866-513-2744 ext. 5 to place an order I was really tempted to go for the Michelin 145/15, but at $132.00 I decided to get my feet wet on the darkside first to see how I like it. Then in five or six years when/if I need a new tire I can always pay the $350.00 it'll cost by then to move up. That is unless someone out there knows of a 155-15 Pirelli that's available since I've not found one anywhere. I guess they don't make it, at least for american consumption. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/25/08 at 11:38:53 290200083C555653630 wrote:
Sure, not now...but in 5 or 6 years, who knows? :D |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/28/08 at 11:48:35 Well, my tire got here today. No wrapping, no packaging. Just tape a shipping label on it and toss it in the UPS truck. I feel so trailer trash. What will the neighbors think? I guess I better check the stock of dish soap we've got here at the homestead. And go get a new tube. And practice my f#%&*@ s#@&% h$#&@ curse words for when I start donating knuckle skin for the cause. Don't wait up for me. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 08/28/08 at 12:10:10 No packaging no wrapping How do you check the contents for damage when there isn't any? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Gort on 08/28/08 at 12:19:56 [quote author=082321291D747772420 link=1219094510/75#81 date=1219949315]Well, my tire got here today. No wrapping, no packaging. Just tape a shipping label on it and toss it in the UPS truck. I feel so trailer trash. What will the neighbors think? I guess I better check the stock of dish soap we've got here at the homestead. And go get a new tube. And practice my f#%&*@ s#@&% h$#&@ curse words for when I start donating knuckle skin for the cause. Years ago I worked for the Post Office. Thats how the stores ship their tires to people. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 08/28/08 at 17:17:39 153E3C3400696A6F5F0 wrote:
Got mine today as well...and a good set of tire irons! ;D I'm debating whether to do the job right away or wait until winter... :-/ |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/28/08 at 18:04:34 I'm doing mine this weekend I think. I want to get a bunch of little stuff done so I can do at least a medium run before the snow starts up here. I think towards the end of September I'm going to do the 600 miles each way to Wall SD and the Badlands for a few days of bike exploration and camping. I've done it several times in a car or van, but now it's time to do the bike thang. See if I can get to places I couldn't with four wheels under me. Some of those two rut "roads" are pretty scary when you've got an oil pan under you with a ton or more of metal to crunch down on it onto a rock. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by PerrydaSavage on 08/29/08 at 07:26:41 We wanna see pics ... and of course a write-up of your Darkside mounting and test Ride adventures ... please! 8-) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 08/29/08 at 15:38:28 Living Vicariously through the miracle of internet electronics! When I am working on a project hot and heavy, taking a lot of pics and stopping to post stuff isn't going to happen. I put the camera over by the chair I sit in to take a break and sip a cup of coffee -- that's the only reason any in process pics get taken at all. You ain't ever going to see a pic of a car tire wrassling match. It is all hands on deck and every hand helping .... ================ Also be mindful of the "ah shucks" factor that can enter into any major mod project -- in this case it might be ..... "Ah shucks -- he wasn't kidding about them durn bolt heads under the fender." "Ah shucks -- got to recenter this big ol' tire in the wheel well ..." "Ah shucks -- what was it about that about brake hub engagement on the swing arm lug?" http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=570503&size=1 |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 08/31/08 at 22:13:46 Ah shucks, I'm either doing something wrong or living very, very right. It was harder getting that old flat bottom Dunlop off the rim than it was getting the new BFG onto it. No lost skin, no tattered knuckles, no nasty language. Put in a new tube 'cause who knows how long it'll be until that suckers comes off again. And you were right, there's a lot of air goes in to pop that second bead into place. It's sitting off the bike overnight to keep it there until tomorrow. Then I'll drop it back to normal and see how that goes. Tools used: My trusty pail of very dish soapy water and a paint brush A big, long, blade, screw driver My well seasoned car brake adjusting tool I suppose in a year or so I'll be looking for a new front tire. Now to start thinking about a radial that'll be a performance/handling match for the back. Any suggestions? You're also right about getting pictures taken during the job at hand. But since I don't have all the fancy garage gear that a lot of you do or the room to use it in, I've come up with a system of getting the back of the bike up and keeping the bike balanced and stable for doing the work that I think could be of use to others. I will take a couple of pix of the set-up for those with limited resources and/or space. I suppose I'll add them to my BikePics site since I still haven't figured out how to add them into the post. Jack p.s. When I was pulling the wheel of the back I found there was a nail in the tire. Went in at the edge of the tread face and angled outwards through a bit of the sidewall, missing entering the tire/and tube. It had been there for a while too. Almost missed it even when I had my face right up close and personal. Guess I'll be a bit more observant when I do those little pre-trip checks like they taught us to do back when driving truck. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/08 at 01:56:13 Suggestions? First, you don't have to match radials on the front of the bike -- that is a car "requirement". Second, pick a old hard rubber compound tire that will stick around a bit. We don't have enough front brake to really excite any sort of tire and our steering loads are very very light. Having a modern gummy tire (designed to handle braking loads from dual caliper set ups) is unnecessary and winds up giving low mileage life. I run an old BMW touring tire "rip off" from cheng shin as it was the only old hard rubber tire design that I could find. I now have the same front tire on my Savage and on my XV535 and have gotten excellent service from it on both bikes. Still have nubbies on both bikes after 7 months and a mountain trip -- tire has excellent wear characteristics. http://www.bikebandit.com/product/3412 (note: tire actually looks like the pic below) http://suzukisavage.com/yabb2.2/Attachments/DSCF0018_Medium.JPG |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/01/08 at 09:29:57 I've got about 14k on my Dunlop D404F up front. It looks like it might weather check itself to death before it wears out. Are others out there getting those kinds of results? It will be interesting to see how it works with the BFG. Does the Cheng Shin hold the road and give mileage like that or better? The price is certainly much easier on the wallet. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by serowbot on 09/01/08 at 11:54:34 2B00020A3E575451610 wrote:
LOL!...Did Oldlfeller miss that, or does he embrace it?... Good bit of funnin' anyway... My best to all you darksiders,...I'm still on the fence about it, but interested in hearing more of your experiences. That fat tire chopper pic sure looks cool, reminds me of the dark knight's bat cycle.....maybe that's why he's called the the Dark Knight. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/01/08 at 13:01:26 5C77757D49202326160 wrote:
My last Savage front was Dunlop K625 Arrowmax which I replaced due to horrible cupping after about 45000 kms. Last SV front was Continental which lasted (to cords) about 39000 kms. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/01/08 at 14:29:09 Did my first dark side run, just got back. Good news all. That sucker grips the road. I took it out on roads I know well to see how it compares. Powering into highway turns you can't shake it. Twisties with power, great. At speed on the flats, like sitting on the couch. I'm running at about 38 psi for right now, 28 psi on the front. Can't wait for it to rain to see how that works for me. The only down side for me is that it feels a bit more skittish on gravel than I would have expected. The rear tire seems to be wandering around back there. My conjecture is that with the wider tread face, you're riding on top of the gravel surface instead of cutting through it like with a narrower bike type tire. That could explain the little bit of sideways slippage. The good news is is that when you give it a little power on the dirt road the tire bites in and gives much better traction. My thoughts are that I'll be on the dark side for quite a while. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/08 at 15:35:02 Serowbot, I said only a crazy person would put a 165/80 on the back of their bike with the stock belt because it would rub city. That was 20-20 hindsight from me to me and Gort was just repeating it back at me with his tongue in his cheek. I did it, it did me -- it DID require lots of things to make a 165/80r15 fit and work with the stock belt because it is simply too durn big for the space envelope. I WAS the crazy person .... it was/is still the first darkside Savage tire since it absolutely refuses to wear out. So, yes -- I was the crazy feller who was the inspiration to you all. Jack makes 6 or 7th new darksider among us. He is the first to mount the TA 155/80 which sounds like the largest practical tire to put on your bike if you plan to run a belt. Go Jack, Go !! Sounds like it was easy peasy to do it. Now, question to the rest of you runs like this: "What is your excuse now?" --- Next summer, you are going to need a new rear tire (sorry, it's a fact) I won't, not for some years yet. You do realize that my darkside rear tire is going to last longer than my stock cam chain/cam chain tensioner? =================================== Just to put it into perspective for you fence sitters. If you mount a BRAND NEW IRC rear tire on the same day my car tire finally shows its wear markers (1/16" of tread left) your bike tire will go totally bald in the middle and show white cords before my darksider tire goes bald in the middle. =================================== How's that for a perspective moment? Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/01/08 at 15:58:01 Jack, I can't speak for wearing one out, I spent over half a year not quite rubbing the nubbies off the thing. Chen Shin never invented any of their original bike tires, they copied Dunlops and Metzlers and Michelins tire designs right down to the rubber compounds and cord constructions. This is simply a thorough rip of a very good BMW touring front tire. As such, it acts like one too. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/01/08 at 21:19:06 Easy, peasy? My my, what colorful vocabulary? I bet there aren't many filters on the net that would block that phrase. I've got plenty of room on both sides and the front with the stock spacers on the back axle. I do have an extra inch and a half or more on my shocks and they're set to three on the stiffness-o-meter. From the looks of things I can't bottom out the fender onto the tire no matter how much weight I pile on. Pylon - get it? Ha, I'm good. Anyway, now I've got to go through that whole tire/belt alignment and tensioning trip again. The whine I've got now at all speeds sounds like the '59 Impala convertible I had back in the mid-60's with the 2 speed automatic that wouldn't shift out of 1st. Drove it around Miami for a year that way before I put in a three speed on the floor. Gotta love those old 283's. Looks like I may get to try a ride in the rain in the next couple of days. Weather channel makes it look like MN is going to get some much needed precipitation. More reports as they come in. And thanx for the tip on the front tire too. I may just have to order one now at that low price and just hang it on the wall in the garage until needed. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/02/08 at 03:40:50 So now Jack is set for the next 20,000 miles or so, he can forget he even has tires other than to check the air pressure every once and a while. Ain't that a miracle -- FORGET YOU EVEN HAVE TIRES for a long long time, years and years. and that's why we drink that cold tomato soup and eat them stupid little fish crackers .... :) Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/02/08 at 05:04:34 4B6860626168686176040 wrote:
20000 miles is doable with a decent motorcycle touring tyre so the car tyre should last a bit longer than that. Over 30000 would be impressive. Is there any mileage data on those car-tyre-on-a-bike sites? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/02/08 at 07:29:45 I'm going to write the current mileage on the bottom of my fender or seat with a sharpie now. When the tire needs to be replaced I'll do the conversion from speedo-to-real-miles and let everyone know how many miles it lasts. If I run it as far down as I did the Dunlop this time (flat across the tread face with maybe a shadow of tread on the bottom) it could be quite a while. With the bike weighing in at from 500-650 pounds, depending on who/what I'm hauling, baby's new shoe should weather check itself out of a job before it wears out don't you think. Towards the end of September I'm planning to do about a week camping trip out to the SD Badlands on the bike. 1,200 miles or so total with lots of dirt roads in the middle should tell me a lot more about things. Now all I have to do is get inside the bike to check the cam chain, adjust the tire alignment, do the air filter AND try to find some black tire paint to cover up those white letters on the side of the BFG, or white to do the other side. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/02/08 at 15:22:40 Thousand pound Honda flat sixes get 20,000+ miles on a rear car tire. What will we get? -- I guess it depends on who is doing the braking with it. I got 5,350 miles on my IRC OEM rear tire. I will get 3-4x more miles out of the VW tire, with the existing rates of intentional abuse included in that figuring. Jack might not be an intentional rear tire abuser and might get twice what I would get. Maybe. That's a whale of a lot of miles. Who in the world gets 20,000 miles out of a rear touring tire on a normal motorcycle? The folks who invented this trick only got 8,000 miles out of a $190 premium motorcycle tire and they are touring bike experts. I paid $34.95 for the initial original darkside Savage tire. Let's see, effectively I will pay less than $9.00 for each of the next 4 equivalent normal motorcycle tires you guys will have to buy (less 4 times whatever you pay to have it mounted on top of that) plus I DON'T HAVE TO MESS WITH IT FOR AT LEAST 5 YEARS. You will pay $500-$600 of your hard earned money plus you get to screw with doing it 3-4 extra times? ================================ What is your excuse now? It ain't cost. It ain't performance. It ain't safety. Jack says it's easy peasy to do ... He proved it out by doing it. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/02/08 at 16:47:08 What is your excuse now? It just aint time yet,,soon as it is, I am going to the Darkside. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/02/08 at 18:01:48 Of course, now it will be kinda interesting to see what all that extra traction will do for my gas mileage. As for braking and poppin' wheelies, I'm a very conservative rider having not even getting started until my mid-late 50's. Not that I don't go above and beyond the speed limit from time to time. It's just that I take my time to get there. The only time I've squealed the tires braking was on a N. Carolina back road when the fella in front of me decided he was turning left, didn't have brake lights and showed me that turn signal usage is still optional in the south. With the back tire locked up, when it felt like the bike was starting to go into a bit of turning, leaning slide, I got off the brakes and headed for the non-existing shoulder. Of course I was thinking that the only time this bike has gone down with me on it was in wet grass, just like what I was headed for. Had gotten the speed down enough that there was no problem, but still . . . I just wish I was better at extemporaneous swearing. No, this tire's going to be back there for a while. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Educatedredneck on 09/02/08 at 23:18:13 Ok, I have one question, based on the tire that Jack 650 bought, (size 155-80 R15), a "normal" 150-80 R15 motorcycle tire "should" fit easy peasy as well, right? I would go dark side in a heart beat, but my better half still has intentions of learning to ride and riding the Savage, so I'm gonna hold off on the dark side thing, at least for this bike. Any comments on the tire size would be appreciated. Anyway, I'm thinking Metzlers or Bridgestone. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/03/08 at 01:17:33 4261696B686161687F0D0 wrote:
Only invention about car tyres on motorcycles is websites about it. There've been bikes with car tyres since motorcycles and cars first came out and Savages have had car tyres before this web forum (or internet). The 150/90-15 Avon HL30 Elan on my wife's Savage has 2mm of tread after 30500 kms. It will be over 20000 miles before winter. The one before it was ancient Metzeler ME88 which I rode 24000 kms and it wasn't brand new when I bought that bike. The one I replaced recently on my SV - Continental Avenue 150/70-17, 18000 kms with a lot of two up riding plus hard luggage on German Autobahns at 130kph+. The one before it, a similar Avenue, 27000 kms almost without Autobahn and the one before it, Bridgestone BT45 with lots of fast two up riding etc. 21000 kms. I work in Germany 2 to 5 days a week so I ride longish trips (often halfway across Europe and back weekly) at steady speeds and I never use the rear brake. These are not touring tyres and not exactly touring riding but still seriously close to what car tyres on bikes are claimed to achieve and I can (just) get my knee down with the Contis so tyre performance is not a problem. I admit cost would be a factor between car and motorcycle tyres but the rears I've bought recently are about 80 Euros. 4D5A4B5B5A5353464C50513F0 wrote:
There are very few 150/80-15 tyres available, if any. I commented earlier about how a larger than average, 158mm wide and 137mm high 150/90 Avon fits and in terms of clearance, 155/80 is easier because it is so much lower, as Jack650 told, easy peasy. A 150/90 doesn't handle that well especially when worn flat across the tread. It wants to follow every rut and groove, a pain in the arse in backroads to be honest. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/03/08 at 02:30:42 SV og LS, I think we are confusing folks by flipping the discussion between rear tires and front tires when talking about mileage numbers. Front tires generally get about twice as many miles as a rear tire does (on a Savage, anyway). I replaced my OE IRC rear tire in the 5,300 mile range and my front as I hit about 10,000 miles. Sluggo and I eat back tires about as bad as anyone around here, but my front tire mileage was fairly typical of the list experience at around 10,000 miles. (note: half of these front tire miles were done while mated with the car tire, so I don't think the car tire does anything bad to your front tire mileage) Jack has replaced his back tire with something that is going to give him mileage up in the 20,000 mile range and he asked for a front tire that would give him something similar in mileage so he could have balance in his life, good karma, internal harmony and all that good stuff. (ie. he doesn't have to screw with it for five years) I clued him into an inexpensive front tire that will mate well with his back tire (good turning performance) and give him a mileage life of somewhat similar shape & size. I know this because I run that front tire against my darkside rear tire right now on my Savage and I liked the tire well enough to put it on another bike as well. So I can speak to it against bike and darkside rear tires. Read its reviews, for the rather moderate cost it is a very good front tire for our rather light bikes. People put it on heavier Harleys and like it too. It was built for heavier touring bikes than ours. ======================= On a different note, I am looking at a $42 front exhaust pipe that I just got in to replace the dented one on my old blue SV curvy. I am beginning to pretty the junker up now, I got me a case of the SV bug to a moderate degree now. darn but that bike MOOOOOVES right along .... Lancer ol' buddy, I'll be ready for you on the next mountain run. What are your experiences on first gen rectifiers vs small sealed batteries? I am beginning to think mine may not be offering up optimal voltage to keep that little battery topped up with only the occasional running that it has been getting. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Educatedredneck on 09/04/08 at 22:05:51 Quote:
Metzler, Bridgestone and others make 150-80 R15 motorcyle tires, thats why I was asking, by looking at the 140-80 R15 tire that I currently have mounted, there seems to be enough clearance for a 150. Any one disagree. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/05/08 at 01:24:04 667160707178786D677B7A140 wrote:
I took a look what one online tyre dealer has. There are 18 140/90 -15 tyres, 17 150/90 ones and only 3 150/80 tyres so the choice is much more limited. I've run 140/90 and 150/90 rears so based on that 150/80 may have issues with swingarm and/or belt clearance on the left side but should be safe on the front seam. If you have nearly 10mm of space or more in regards to belt and swing arm on the left you should be safe. Every brand is sized actually different so if I told you brand X 150/80 will fit it's not 100% sure brand Y 150/80 would fit exactly the same. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/05/08 at 01:49:18 00232B292A23232A3D4F0 wrote:
The mileage numbers I last mentioned were for rears. The fronts last a bit longer, although I see only a 50% increased life compared to rears. Last SV front - Continental Avenue, 39000kms. Last LS front - Dunlop Arrowmax, 45000 kms and replaced due to cupping. These numbers are not a contest or anything but just to note that sport touring m/c tyres last surprisingly well especially on longer trips ridden moderately. You've had bad experience with IRCs just like anyone else. They don't last or grip but car tyres are not the only way of getting a longer tread life than 5 k / 10 k miles. I would be disappointed if I only got 10 k / 20 k miles out of tyres I use. 00232B292A23232A3D4F0 wrote:
Sportsters will be minced meat against a stock SV I reckon, there's nothing to worry about. I've had no problems with stock charging system and I still run the original 9 years old sealed battery. I remove it for the worst winter months and charge it gently every month (during winter storage) and keep the connections clean. It doesn't need charging if I for some reason have to leave the bike for a two or three weeks but I never do short trips. If I start the bike, I don't do shopping or short commutes so it's half a tankful at least. A friend had bad experience with cheap Taiwanese sealed battery. It worked well for 3 years, then suddenly collapsed while on a gas station. Nothing happened when he turned the power on. It showed 12.8 volts but hadn't enough power for idiot LEDs. If you have to replace the battery, don't go for the cheapest. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/05/08 at 11:53:57 Very good information, thanks -- Lancer is moldy mincemeat rolling on Harley tires next time we go to the mountains !! I am liking that SV650 engine more and more as the time I spend around it increases. The little engine that could, and does, and then gets pissed off and does a lot more. I lowered the bike enough to get me some significant bike tire friction rubs on the plastic inner flat water shedder (I hesitate to call it a fender), so I temporarily raised the bike one hole on the shock dog bones until I get time to fabricate an aluminum or stainless steel thin sheet metal section of the water shedder that will sit in the same area the tire wants to hit. This will go flat to the fender rails, I think. I want to run my flat wide racing car tire with the fender very low to the ground, and I KNOW now that the necessary clearance spacing will create occasional rubbing when going over speed bumps, etc. Can't have the stock plastic water shedder melting on me -- need some metal to withstand the tire rubs that are going to take place. I also wrapped the exhaust pipe between exhaust can and "Y" joint with white fiberglass wrapping to keep the pipe from eating up my pants leg -- so far so good on that fix. http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=571570&size=1 |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Educatedredneck on 09/05/08 at 22:28:32 Thanks for the response - I will take some measurements before I order the tires. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/07/08 at 20:02:15 Well, I finally got around to swapping rear tires. Put in a BFG Radial T/A. Oldfeller wasn't kidding, you need alot of pressure to seat the tire. My air pump only puts out 80 PSI and that wasn't enough. There's still a 10" long spot on one side that won't seat. Well I'll go to the station down the street and see what their 150 psi pump can do. I'm guessing around 100-110 psi should do the trick...I hope! On another note, I agree with Justin_o_guy! If you don't have problems taking a m/c tire off a rim with a few tire irons, then YOU CAN strangle a rhino and throw his dead carcass aside! :o |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 00:43:44 Lots of dish washing soap, lots of it. Also a wrassling trick, the bead you are currently working on needs to have the already on part pushed way down into the center of the tire. This allows it to move "forward" more. If it pops up and tries to bead seat itself it can make the job 4x harder than it needs to be. Mojo air pressure is a must. You need to know where you are going to get over 100 pound air pressure before you start the job, or you will be like me on the first one, going from station to station to find somebody who runs his air system at over 100 lbs setting. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 16:38:12 POW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :-[ :'( Ok, the whole thing BLEW UP! I guess I must not have used enough dish soap...and I think the truck bed liner spray I used to try to seal up the spoke holes somehow made it up to the rim. Anyway, now I've got no tire, no tube, and nothing on the way. I can't wait for another shot next weekend, I gotta get this thing up and back on the road. My ears are STILL ringing, that was the loudest explosion I can remember hearing! It was MUCH louder than a 30-06 rifle! I won't make that mistake again. If I can't seat the bead with 80 psi or less, I won't chance that again. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 16:41:07 Oh yeah, and just to let everybody know how powerful an explosion that was, it completely shredded my saddle bag on that side and bruised my arm when it got launched into my forearm. Guess those saddlebags were a good investment after all! Saved my arm. ::) |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 17:35:22 I think a picture is needed here. Gotta have a picture .... Gort & Sluggo can't laugh as good as I know they can laugh without a picture to show them. You were riding around on a partially seated tire, mounted on the bike, trying to inflate it somewhere and it blew up. Because the truck bed liner spray you had sprayed on the spoke heads got on to the rim ??? ============ OK, I recant, totally no less -- car tires are too dangerous for list members to be messing with. Riding in the mountains is too dangerous for list members to be messing with. I am too dangerous for list members to be messing with. I still want a picture. I am going to print it out and frame it and put it over my computer as a reminder. Then I am going to park all my motorcycles, unload all my guns and sit in front of the TV, get senile and ossified and try to "act my age". Just show me the picture, please. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 17:49:19 Yes, I rode about 2 miles to a station that has a 125 psi pump. I stopped to seat the tire and POW! My ears are STILL ringing, and I didn't have the presence of mind sufficient to take pictures. I had to call my wife to come get me with the van and trailer. The other part of this whole thing that chaps me is I spent $10 on dynabeads to balance the rear tire and they flew everywhere... :-/ I may be able to laugh about this tomorrow, but right now... >:( |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 17:59:49 Aaaak! What did they say when the tire blew up? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 18:05:10 "HOLY COW! You ok? That was the loudest explosion I've ever heard. Ya' know, that line has about 125 psi in it? I cut it down for out here but that compressor puts out about 175 psi. Do you know how much pressure it had in it before the tire gave up?" "Yep, yep, nope." "How you gonna get that thing home?" "Hmmm....you got a phone?" Just about then two police cars and a fire truck come by with the lights and sirens on and the lead cop is looking around like he's expecting to see some destroyed building or something... |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 18:13:58 2D0E0604070E0E0710620 wrote:
Sorry Crazyfeller...er...I mean, Oldfeller ;), I almost immediatlely threw the saddlebags away and as soon as I got home I broke the rim down and got it ready for a new tire. I don't think this is cause for concern, no need to overreact...I've only changed a few dozen car tires myself, I just need a little more practice. On a similar note, I've never had any success with m/c tires, I even botched the job on my dirtbike and had to take it to the dealer and pay the $50 for him to mount it in shame, after ruining no less than two tubes. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 18:21:37 Hey, Oldfeller, I just had a thought...Maybe you could be the SuzukiSavage Darkside Tire-mounting-guy, what says you? $50 each? $75? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 18:23:51 Nah, too dangerous -- I might hurty myself. durn, Where's that remote control? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by verslagen1 on 09/08/08 at 18:30:11 Dam, knew I should've said something about that! Glad you're alright though. I guess now we got something on oldfeller... you know that guy that tell everyone to go darkside? And the poor newbie walks into blowing up his tire and nearly kills hisself? yeah, that's the guy. But you know, it's probably your fault, that station probably had stale air in it's tank, hadn't changed it in years. What did he think it was sour dough? ;D |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by barry68v10 on 09/08/08 at 18:35:41 Amazingly, I'm not completely against the whole car tire on a m/c thing, I just think you really need a tubeless setup to make it reliable/repeatable. I'm not a big fan of counting on the tube to seat the tire bead... How would one go about adapting a car rim to a m/c? |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by Jack_650 on 09/10/08 at 15:24:39 So, my 'puter breaks down for a few days and all sorts of poop starts to fly. My air gauge only goes to 50# and when I was letting the air pressure down after the bead popped, it took a lot of tries before I got into that 50# range. The trick is as mentioned numerous time here is lots of soapy water on the bead area. And when you're going into the known toughness of bead popping a car tire you want to have a new tube in there. I don't think I would have trusted my 2 1/2 year old, used in two tires tube for the job. But, an explosion of tire and tube - WOW! I've not heard of anything like that since I was a young lad mounting split-ring truck tires in south Florida. I've got to almost think that was an old or flawed tube. And as for the tire exploding, I would think they're able to handle a lot of not rolling air pressure. Maybe it too was a possible weak link, factory fault or something along those lines. It's pretty standard to have to put 100# or so of air in a car tire on a car rim to pop the bead to make sure it's seated. Now I wonder about that spray bed liner idea to seal the spoke ends. It's my understanding that we're not trying to keep air in there, but rather keep the spoke ends from rubbing through the tube. My inner wheel has a rubber coating of some sort over the spoke ends and the center trough of the rim. I thought of adding a rubber strip around the inside like my bicycle has for its rims, but since my old tube showed no wear at all I decided to take the risk. I would bet that any of that spray that got on the rim near the edges would definately NOT help in the tire bead slipping into place, no matter how much soap you used. I do have a suggestion for the next time/person who's going to go the dark side route for mounting tires on bike rims. Back in the day, when I worked a seven-day-a-week, nine-hour-a-night shift at Sam's Shell full service gas station on the corner of 27th Ave. and 169th St. in Miami, we had a device that was like a heavy duty, canvas wrapped bike tube with cinch straps that we would wrap around the center of the tire's tread face BEFORE trying to set the bead. By pulling in on the middle of the tread face (by inflating the small tube) you are forcing the side walls outwardly. I can't help but think that this idea could be modified to the use of a hefty ratchet strap around the tire, cinch it up and then apply the air pressure. After the bead pops you lower the pressure and de-ratchet the strap. I used to use a rope when doing this job at home in my teens, but it's a chore to get the rope off any way except by cutting it. "Penniless is as penniless does" however. What with inflation (get it?) there's my six cents worth. Jack |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by SV og LS on 09/10/08 at 15:56:18 72595B53670E0D08380 wrote:
Good idea and it should work. Years ago a friend showed me the trick when struggling with a particularly stubborn case of rear Michelin. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/10/08 at 16:15:09 Actually the ratchet strap idea does work, at least it did when I was trying to seat the bead on my wheel barrow rim. |
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Title: Re: Car tire for the back Post by ero4444 on 09/11/08 at 06:31:55 If the bedliner was the least bit uncured, then its solvent would probably attack the tube and weaken it. |
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