SuzukiSavage.com - Print Page

SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl
General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Aviation Fuel
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1219068370

Message started by itschnobigdeal on 08/18/08 at 07:06:10

Title: Aviation Fuel
Post by itschnobigdeal on 08/18/08 at 07:06:10

Would it be bad if a bunch of 100LL aviation fuel found it's way into my Savage's gas tank?

(ie: I can get a bunch of it for free, and it smells really good)

(ie again: I tried a half tank and I thought it ran great!)

Am I facing long term problems though?

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Gort on 08/18/08 at 07:28:34

3A2720303B3D3C313A343736323F530 wrote:

In so far as the extra octane is concerned, if you ask the gasoline companies, they will tell you that if your engine is not designed to use the higher octane, then it will ignore it as if it didn't exist. They will tell you it will neither benefit or suffer from its use.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Charon on 08/18/08 at 07:58:34

Aviation fuel is designed to have relatively low volatility. That's so it doesn't evaporate from tanks at high altitude, and to reduce the chances of vapor lock. What it means for you is the chance of harder starting, because the less volatile fuel doesn't evaporate quite as easily in a cold carburetor/engine.

If you use leaded fuel, you will need to change your oil more often, as lead will eventually contaminate the oil. Do not use synthetic oil with leaded fuels, as the oils will not keep lead particles in suspension. The lead will also foul your spark plug more quickly. And it will leave lead deposits in the exhaust pipe although they do no harm except toxicity when you work with the exhaust.

I used to fly a little, and of course talked with the guys at the FBO. Every so often they had to drain fuel from aircraft for some reason, and they weren't allowed to put it back because they couldn't be sure it wasn't contaminated. So they burned it in airport equipment like their mowers and the fuel truck. They said the AVGAS didn't seem to run as well as regular MOGAS.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Jerry Eichenberger on 08/18/08 at 08:58:37

I concur with Charon. I am a current commercial pilot, flight inbstructor, and I own an FBO, so I know a little about 100LL (that's 100 octane, low lead).

100LL is the only leaded gasoline left, and it exists only because certain airplane engines require the 100 octance rating. Some of the older engines, like on warbirds and the old piston engine airliners, actually required 130 at one time, but by altering the ignition timing, they can be run on the 100LL.

Why introduce lead into an engine not designed for it? Stuck valves, fouled plugs, and lead in the oil are all the results of using lead where it wasn't intended?

Some old, smaller airplane engines were designed to use 80 octance, and now that we only have 100LL gas for aviation, lots of those engines are fouling and their valves are sticking as a result, since 100LL still has 4 times more lead in it than the old 80 octance did.

Stay with mogas.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by vtail on 08/18/08 at 09:10:53

I concur with all of the above. However, when in over winter storage i do fill the tank with avgas (since i have easy access) and run the bike 15 miles. Next spring it starts immediately. With regular gas ages I would put some "Stabil". Done this (Avgas) for years and i feel that one tank is not going to hurt, lead wise. ;)

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by itschnobigdeal on 08/18/08 at 12:21:24

I manage an FBO actually, that's why I can sneak a few gallons out here and there for free. I suppose it isn't worth the potential problems to save a few bucks in gas money. Thanks for the advice guys, much appreciated! I have heard of putting that in your tank at the end of the year too, I'll probably do that.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/18/08 at 20:48:57

I worked at an FBO for quite awhile and it really doesn't hurt anything to add some to regular gas. The stuff works awesome in chainsaws, we always had the fire department coming up and buying our "waste" fuel. Straight it can burn weak spots in your exhaust and can burn up catalytic converters.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by itschnobigdeal on 08/19/08 at 08:30:23

And your Savage will idle like absolute poo poo. As I've leanred now... I added 1 gallon, which gave me a full tank (half reg, half 100LL). Now that I've gone over 50 miles on this tank it's started to idle like crap, backfire waaay more, and seem to run more "hot." A mistake I won't make again.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Gort on 08/19/08 at 08:40:49

It would be interesting to learn what is the difference in the additive packages between av gas and car gas, and if the octane rating of av gas is always controlled by the old lead method, or if it is sometimes controlled by other chemistry as is in all car gas sold in the USA.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Crotchrocket on 08/19/08 at 19:47:12

Interesting to see so many aviation professionals here. I'm a CFI too, and the only thing I can say with certainty is that 100LL smells better.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Savage_Amusement on 08/20/08 at 14:51:45

I went to school to be an AMT, but I get paid way better doing what I'm doing now and I don't have to worry about anybody crashing.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by mick on 08/21/08 at 12:04:54

My B/in law drag races a chevy truck,his gas is 110 octain he pays $11 bucks a gallon for it, so I tried a gallon in my savage.huge difference in acceleration it really is like rocket fuel,that being said it showed no improvement in top speed, I just got up to it a heck of allot faster.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by bill67 on 08/21/08 at 12:54:09

Mick how fast will yours go?

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by sockmonkeygirl on 08/21/08 at 17:15:55

I did want to raise the point about flammability. Isn't aviation fuel highly flammable? In the event that something dreadful happen, that bike might go up like a meteorite. I suppoze a rider isn't generally still on a bike after a crash..but, thought I'd mention.

I once had a friend who put it in his car. Upon impact, he, three other friends, and the car immediately perished in a very hot fire. The rims were nothing but smallish molten blobs.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by mick on 08/21/08 at 18:34:35

5A5154540E0F380 wrote:

Mick how fast will yours go?

It will do 83mph,I had it up to a little over 85 with a tail wind,could have gone more I think,but I ran out of road.

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Gort on 08/21/08 at 19:13:35

5D414D45434140454B5749475C422E0 wrote:

When mixed with air in the right proportions, one cup of gasoline has the explosive capability of 5lbs. of dynamite:

http://www.cdc.gov/nasd/docs/d000701-d000800/d000760/d000760.html

Gasoline is more volatile than Jet engine fuel, which in itself is clear kerosene:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline

I spent a lot of time on the 'Net trying to find out if there is a difference in flammability or volatility between AV gas and automobile gasoline, but I found nothing. However, when a cup of gasoline correctly mixed with air has the explosive capability of 5lbs. of dynamite, does it really matter if AV gas is more flammable?

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/21/08 at 19:44:25

I wonder how far 5 pounds of dynamite would propel a Savage?

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Reelthing on 08/21/08 at 20:16:10

and in what direction

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Skid Mark on 08/21/08 at 20:19:15

I bet 5 lbs of dynamite would propel it 500ft in all dircetions a once. Who get to lite the fuse.??

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by mick on 08/22/08 at 00:54:50

4640594A461D122B0 wrote:

I bet 5 lbs of dynamite would propel it 500ft in all dircetions a once. Who get to lite the fuse.??

Unrelated---------- how did you come up with "Skid Mark"? my last name is Rowe I was thinking of going with Skid Rowe ,what do you think? would I be infringing?

Title: Re: Aviation Fuel
Post by Skid Mark on 08/22/08 at 21:19:29

Go for it Mick. I got it from an old tv show. The main character was a race car driver (Mark Mccormick) whose nick name was Skid Mark. I would provide more details but alzimers is slowly dissolving my trivia memory.

As long as the skids aren't while we are ridding, the more the merrier.