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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 junker /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1218999511 Message started by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 11:58:31 |
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Title: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 junker Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 11:58:31 We mentioned before that Lancer kicked everyone's butt performance-wise up on the mountain trip -- none of our mods were even close to his performance-wise as not only was he swinging his normal sort of exhaust & carb mods but he had finagled himself some extra displacement and was running some sort of higher compression dual spark plug rig-up as well. He had at least 50 something horses and a lot of extra torque too -- he kicked our butts right smartly. Toymaker and I discussed this quite a bit that Sunday morning -- what it would take to make Lancer actually have to actually strain to beat us ..... If you can't whup 'um -- join them I always say. Lancer's tricks can be copied, you know. ============================== My 2002 silver Wee Bagger is perfect just as she is, I wouldn't put her at risk in this effort as she runs even with the best the group can offer (with the exception of Lancer of course) and she is the quentissential around town quick handling light go-getter bike. She stays the way she is, thank you very much. My baby is perfect, and she stays that way. ============================== So, I bought me a junker 650, a rag bike, a sacrificial goat if you will to work my experiments on. Bike sold for less than Kelly wholesale and had a very speckled history of repairwork and some light wrecks behind it. I bought it because it sounded good and I checked with the stealership mechanic who had just put a set of cam chain guides, chain and a new adjuster into the bike to make sure the clutch and everything else was healthy, and that the valves were correctly adjusted and the cam lobes weren't spauled. It uses some oil, he said and had a hard 17,000 miles on it but had good compression and a solid clutch. So, I got a solid junker basis to go on and a roadmap of the work to be done. Are you interested in following along in detail, or should I just finish it and shoot a pic or two when it is all completed? Oldfeller |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by rigidchop on 08/17/08 at 13:36:24 i'll follow along!!!!!!!!! |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by SV og LS on 08/17/08 at 13:51:47 Hmmm.. so you finally bought the SV650? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 14:30:24 Yup. Only thing that could be lowered far enough for my old pins to get up on that would whup up upon Lancer's Sportster. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by SV og LS on 08/17/08 at 14:38:44 I really hope you'll like it. I assume you'll show us some pics soon? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 14:59:31 All in good time. You were quick, BTW -- few have realized it would have taken a non-single with increased displacement to beat our hopped up Savages. First step in creating the Lancer Killer is to order the required & proper long lasting super gripping rear tire. Caught mine on sale at Tire Rack for a whopping big $69 -- e-order is placed and unless they refuse to sell it to me because it won't legally fit my 1974 Volkswagen 412 S coupe with Lenso alloy wheels it will be here later on in the week (took me like an hour to find the correct car to claim I owned, BTW). http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=Yokohama&model=S.drive&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=945WR7SXL&tirePageLocQty=%26partnum%3D945WR7SXL http://www.tirerack.com/images/tires/yokohama/yo_sdrive_ci2_l.jpg |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 15:36:26 Next, we need to talk geometry and crip old men. Neither Lancer nor I are spry any more -- we crawled off our bikes, hobbled into a McDonalds and then had a bit of fun getting up out of the funky little seats when it was time go go again. Study the geometry a bit and you will see that the new bike has to be lowered 3-4 inches to get into seat height parity with a Savage. http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=568765&size=1 To finish doing the deed, you need a good lowering kit like this one http://www.yanashiki.com/v/vspfiles/photos/A3137-2.jpg Lastly, you need to consider the seat itself. Fortunately, the used bike came with a Suzuki Gel Seat already mounted on it. http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=568764&size=1 Seat feels neat, it is full of squishy stuff and your butt snuggles right down into it. Seat was a nice extra to have come ready equipped, as was the Two Brothers High Performance sports exhaust and K&N air filter. Bike is already rejetted and tuned for same and the exhaust pipe is not blued or purpled so whoever did it did a good job. Note the foot pegs, they are approximately the right height but are not positioned in the cruiser standard position by any means. SV's make you lay down on the tank on purpose by rocking your leaning position forward a good bit. The padded tank bra is supposed to make this more comfortable, but I am not used to the idea yet. Yet, both Lancer and I had to lay on our tanks to stretch out our backs out and on the trip back home on Sunday I expect I spent more time laying down on the tank than sitting up. Lastly, the gastly clip ons ...... http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=568763&size=1 I don't think I will be able to live with these rather expensive optional clip ons. The standard SV bars are akin to the S40 straight bars and there are other dirt bike bars that SV people use to straighten up their bodies some. Bluntly, my arms are not long enough for this set of clip ons. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/18/08 at 14:05:14 Confirmation of shipment on the $69 special-priced 40,000 mile ultra high performance Z rated 195/45r17 rear tire was rec'd. What is neat is the rim size on the bike is almost within the rim width range of the recommended car rims. This one might actually be easier to get to pop on to the rim than the last one. Tire should last me over 20,000 miles and give good cornering grip as well (has special construction to allow rapid cornering at high gee forces and at speeds up to 140 mph). I ordered a set of touring handle bars which go up vertically 4" and sweep back 4" and are the same 28" width as what is on the bike now. This should get the grips and my hands up over the tank and back far enough for me to grab them and steer, even with an over-padded tank bra mounted in place on the tank. I got a new set of simple black hand grips as the blue & black gel-like jobbies that are on there now just look too durn cute to suit my taste. Never had much luck getting old hand grips off without damaging them anyway. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by mpescatori on 08/19/08 at 00:32:50 195/45R17? What kind of rear wheel do you fit ? I thought we had a 15" ... About the tire profile, are you sure you can actually get the bikje to lean on a /45 profile ? I thought you were going to get a standard 165R15... Or maybe a 185/70, but not any lower ... |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by SV og LS on 08/19/08 at 01:05:16 You may be somewhat shorter than me so you benefit from those mods. My N model is ergonomically stock apart from taller rear shock plus taller tyre. I've stock seat, pegs but slightly lower tubular bars and a café shield. The other week I rode two 12.5 hour days back and forth across most of the continental Europe without problems and I'm about 6'3". Good job you have the N model because S would have needed a N spec upper yoke to accommodate tubular bars. I've a friend who has a SV1000S with taller screen, heated grips, adjustable peg adaptor plates and expensive LSL top yoke set. The bike's plush sport tourer now. Not sure how the car tyre 'll work on a SV, though.. 776A7F69797B6E7568731A0 wrote:
We are not talking about Suzuki Savages. The standard rear is 160/60-17 on a 4.5" rim. The last three rears I've run 150/70 because there are harder and cheaper compounds available plus it raises the rear a bit for quicker turn in. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/19/08 at 04:47:51 Mescapatori, we are talking Sportster killers here -- Lancer's Sportster to be specific -- and unless you are going to put a heavy hitting nitrous kit into your Savage (and invent a new clutch system) you ain't gonna be doing that with your 650 Suzuki Savage ==== but you can with your Savage Suzuki SV650 (a different sort of savage 650cc bike made by Suzuki). http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=568516&size=1 I'm 5'6" tall with legs that don't want to bend all that much and arms that like to tear on their rotator cuffs if they get a good chance. I have some issues that bear consideration in this effort, so you can understand some of the strange choices I make. I am going to fix the bike so I don't have to do the "ongoing pushup" routine ever at all. I can do this by either straightening up the seating position or by making the tank into a reclining bed. Either way would work and the reclining bed would be better for longer trips, so I'll try that first. First step is to get rid of the clip ons -- final pick on the handle bars will depend on final choice in riding position. Of course, it is easier/less expensive to move the bars rather than the footpegs, so we start there first. But it will still build up to be a right smart Sportster killer, don't you think? Tire will lower the bike an additional 1/2" and lower the stock gearing ratio a by a tiny bit. Previous owner claims 140 mph was achieved by the bike with him on it, so I am looking to see 125-130 mph with a 200 pound and a 20 hp advantage in getting there. Oh, and at least a $1,000 plus advantage in the purchase cost, too. (that's the part that will make Old Yoda happy .... that and the practically immortal $69 rear tire. ) http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=570503&size=1 |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/29/08 at 17:17:40 Progress to date: Put the lowering dogbone kit in place, worked OK to get me to a nice flat footed rest position but resulted in some bump impact rubbing in the fender well. The tire that is on there now only has about six months left in it, so when it comes out I will investigate and remove the sources of the tire rubbing before putting the Yokohama in place. Foot pegs were too high. My post surgical knee insisted on a lower foot peg position, so I investigated and found the suggested mod parts. SV650 young squid guys didn't like this mod as it required HAND FITTING and completely modifying the pegs from a Buell Lightning to fit on the all metric SV650. To me, no biggie -- I'm used to a Savage where every mod requires hand fitting (or construction from other stuff completely). Check out them protruding ego sparklers -- high carbon hard steel touch down "sensors" that throw out a shower of sparks for all the Starbucks girlies to go oooh and aaaah at. They are supposed to keep you from accidentally catching your toe under the footpeg and breaking your foot -- they hit first and raise peg and toe up out of danger. (no, they don't actually reduce your cornering clearance any at all as they get lifted out of the way seemlessly by the sparkler -- your shift lever and rear brake lever still do all the real tilt limiting by bending in a horseshoe and snapping off just like they did before you put the Buell pegs on) http://www.hunt101.com/watermark.php?file=570507&size=1 This got me up on top of the bike and got it rolling around the neighborhood. I have discovered the squid bike slant position feels drastically drastically different, but actually isn't all that bad for a short term jaunt. Still needs a lot of work to make a trip to the mountains, though. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Educatedredneck on 08/29/08 at 23:07:26 Hey Oldfeller. how 'bout some pics of your progress? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by SV og LS on 08/30/08 at 02:24:52 193A3230333A3A3324560 wrote:
Hand fitting's not a problem - although most of us SV650 squids prefer using tools when fitting parts. I prefer the stock pegs because they've rubber inserts which eat some of the vibration, also lower pegs and humongous Buell feelers eat a lot of cornering clearance but I understand in your case more relaxed riding stance is preferable. What kind of handlebars did you install? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/30/08 at 02:25:13 Look at the post above. To the right of the shiny new foot pegs, you see the shiny new 3 position dog bones getting their first coating of chain lube. This lowered the bike to the right level. The Buell pegs lowered the foot position. The shifter lever is bent six different new ways to put the shifter peg out where it can be used. All custom work here. Progress goes slowly, as issues have to be identified, solutions identified, parts located, parts bought & shipped, the new parts reworked and then installed. For example, I bought a new handle bar, but it wasn't right so I had to ship it back -- then posted for a 6-8 year old stock part that may not be available anywhere right off the bat (only exists holding up the wall in somebody's shop in Podunk somewhere). Slow going. No one admits to having a stock part (squid shame prevents such behavior) plus squid bikes tend to move around from owner to owner quite frequently leaving all the old stock parts behind. Issues/solutions example: for example, the Buell pegs are using the stock Suzuki return springs -- these are too weak and the pegs move up due to your shoe sole sticking into the rough knurly surface texture (my shoes do, anyway). Solution could be to pick up a second pair of return springs and put them in place as there is room enough to have two springs per foot peg. Squid kids simply don't have this issue because they are not crip old men. This isn't going to be a quick fix project -- a squid bike is basically incompatible with this old man's body. The old man's body has got to give some and the bike has got to give some in order to make the match up work. ====================== SV650 is a squid bike, make no bones about it. You are supposed to hang out off each side of the bike like a reesus monkey to take a "full lean turn with good body form". Ha, that ain't gonna happen. You wanna hear about my first attempts to do a stoppie or a wheelie? I am too fat to do a stoppie -- front tire will skid before the back end (and my big butt) will come up off the ground. Wheelies in first are easy with the longer touring handle bar in place -- just pull the fat ol' body mass back up over the rear wheel and goose it in first gear. Problem is it makes absolutely no sense -- first gear runs out too soon. Engine has great torque, so much so that rolling off the throttle after pulling a little wheelie will skid the soft gummy back tire. Engine braking on this light a bike has lots of discussion on it as a squid topic as it is so abrupt and severe it poses a body hazard if it has been raining and the roads are slick. And that is the squiddlies talking about excessive engine braking, much less us crip old men. Remember, this bike weighs just a little tad more than a Savage does. It is physically longer, but has LOTS of aluminum and light weight plastic in the major construction pieces. Squid folks worry a lot about weight (they actually complain about the weight of the steel sparklers on the Buell pegs as it is unnecessary dead weight). The engine is powerful and has great torque characteristics, both in going forward and in slowing things down. Rear brake is strong compared to a Savage. Front brakes (dual large rotors, large 2 piston caliper units) are completely insane compared to a Savage. Thank God the stock front brakes are intentionally metered at the point you have to use white knuckle force to get all that there is to have out of the front brakes -- some out there in squid land have replaced the master cylinder with a GSXR unit to get two finger braking force at these full insane levels .... dangerous !! The bike is completely driveable with increased power levels compared to either my Savage or my XV535, at less than 5,000 RPM. So, at Savage level engine speeds it clearly outperforms. However, the engine redlines at 10,500 rpm and the engine is fairly linear output-wise right up to redline. Pipe makes a nice loud squid bike howl over 6,000 rpm ... Third gear (out of six gears) is good for just short of national speed limit if you were to wind it out all the way to the rev limiter. But why would you want to do that? There are two bikes sitting here -- one is a low rpm torquer that gets you around town like a slightly stronger Savage (at an equivalent 50 plus MPG gas mileage, BTW). The other one? The one that comes up over say 7,000 rpm? People write quotes about him. "The SV is like the quiet kid in the corner that nobody plays with. He's harmless until you poke him with a stick... then he becomes ugly, angry, and stabs you in the face with a golf club. - ASCSurveyor" "You're making me angry. You won't like it when I'm angry ...." - Dr. Bruce Banner |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/30/08 at 05:16:35 Keep it coming O.F. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 08/31/08 at 04:04:13 Now that the foot pegs are handled, got to consider completing the lay down bed for the long trips. Found this on close out for $17, may not be the ultimate solution but it allows a tryout of the reclining bed idea on a short trip. Cheap enough not to get Yoda after me, anyway .... http://www.newenoughhp.com/image/path/16705/small/ninja_1.jpg?1215644133 Point is I can fill it up with a correctly formed piece of firm foam (or stuff it with clothes) to support my upper body completely, making a total relaxed body support right on up to my chin if need be. Hindsight is always 20-20, if I had waited until I had the body support worked out then I could have ordered the correct handle bar the very first time. Ah, the joys of sending stuff back ... |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/31/08 at 06:20:38 I'd probably stuff with clothes & finish off with foam. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 09/07/08 at 16:16:23 Let's see, what's new about the Lancer Mod bike. Hey, the second set of handle bars got here and they looked close enough to drill the holes in it to actually try them out. Holes? Squid bikes are all plasticky about the controls, no aluminum housings at all. As such they don't clamp on well enough not to rotate on you unless you put a protruding plastic housing spud into a hole in the handle bar to keep the whole control module from rotating on you. So, I pulled off $170 dollars worth of custom clip on weighted bar end neatness & coolness and replaced it with a $22 handle bar and a set of $9.00 grips. They go up in the air and back to suit my stubby little arms exactly, so they are worth more to me than the original stuff any day. (plus I'll peddle the clip on stuff I just took off for more money than all my pretty ups and mods have cost me to date -- it's called "breaking even on the deal") http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/zbar.JPG Now here is a pic without the old clip on bars cluttering up the shot. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/zbar_not.JPG I also went after the pants leg eating hot exhaust pipe using some fiberglass wrap from a boat place. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/wrapped_pipe.JPG I also put some of the same on my Savage as it has eaten a set of pants or two over the years .... stock exhaust on the Savage gets very hot and will require another layer of fiberglass wrap to insulate enough to quit melting cotton polyester blend pants. http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/medium/z_Savage.JPG So, I had a busy weekend and made some more incremental progress. I have a brake bleeding job coming up (I had to disturb some hydraulic fittings moving the bars around) and I have a lot of tweeking and fine tuning to do over the next few weeks. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 16:16:47 Done twiddling with the brakes, out for the proof trip down the feeder road to I95 (long straight deserted road ....) Oh my, Lancer -- I can do 110 mph in 5th gear at 8,000 rpm. And it happens real real fast, too. I did that before I even got off the exit merge lane getting on to the actual road. I didn't even have time to get into 6th and I still had 2,500 rpm left in 5th before the rev limiter would have cut me off. Truth is, my little black beanie helmet was trying to rip my silly head off and bugs were getting all stuck between my grimacing teeth as my eye sockets began to puff open in the wind blast. T'warn't any fun. Eye lids are still smarting. Upright seating at these speeds isn't so good, now I see why the squid boys have them silly clip on bars and lay all over the tank all the time. And why they worship their "gear" so much. They need it. Full face helmet, jacket & gloves ---- what will she do in 6th gear before wind resistance on body bulk calls it a day ?? Oldsquidfeller |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Trippah on 09/08/08 at 16:27:44 Oldfeller- some of the mentioned photos are not showing up, nor are links to photos.. :o |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by SV og LS on 09/08/08 at 17:17:52 785B5351525B5B5245370 wrote:
Next thing you know you're searching for a nice little 600 sportbike that will add another 40hp and 40mph.. ;) there's no returning back. |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 09/08/08 at 17:22:28 Which one can be lowered a lot? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/08/08 at 17:46:08 O.F., I cantsee the pics, either. Oh, & WOW.. Maybe a small fairing to get some of the "Blow you off the back of your bike" pressures would be a good idea? Glad you didnt get a bug in the eyeball. I wonder at what speed a june bug would penetrate? |
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Title: Re: Lancer Hi Performance Mod performed on 650 jun Post by Oldfeller on 09/09/08 at 03:32:00 Ok, Justin -- I fixed the pics (I think) Take a look and see if you can see them. PS that little bitty thing over the speedo is a 130 mph windscreen, your face and helmet are supposed to be right behind it if you have "good racing form" (according to the squiddites, anyway). I wish I had the skinny little 19 year old body that could hide behind that little cowl screen after taking an "S" bend over the tank. |
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