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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Terrible Gas Mileage /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1218910936 Message started by Kulisz on 08/16/08 at 11:22:15 |
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Title: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/16/08 at 11:22:15 Hey all. I recently purchased a 97 ls650 and its only getting 30-35 mpg at the most. with the small fuel tank this leaves me filling up a LOT. does anyone know any reasonable simple fixes to this? Thanks! |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by imSavage on 08/16/08 at 11:50:25 It sounds like the carb needs some adjusting. It's probably running too rich. I think I have seen similar posts on the site. Trying doing a search and see what comes up. Should give you an idea on what carb settings to try. Mark |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by serowbot on 08/16/08 at 12:19:51 Also check the vac line for gas, it runs from the right side of the carb up to the back of the petc0ck. Should be no gas at all in there. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/16/08 at 12:21:14 Check the oil. If its way full,,, might be a problem. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/16/08 at 12:41:02 thanks guys. =) i will investigate |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by drharveys on 08/16/08 at 19:21:16 Oh yeah, make sure the brakes aren't binding. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by skrapiron on 08/16/08 at 19:45:02 Can be caused by all sorts of reasons. Is the bike stock? Probably not. If the PO was like most Savage owners, he tweaked it for power, not economy. Start at the air box. Is it even still there? If there's a cone filter on, then likely, no. He had to rejet the carb to compensate. What about the exhaust? Is it loud? Does it sound like a motorcycle or is it quiet, like a swarm of bees. It's proably aftermarket as well and can cause economy issues. Any chance you can post a pic of the bike? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by 1st2know on 08/16/08 at 19:58:07 Gas milage is your best indicator of when it's time to open the tool box. It can be a number of things. Did you say "Recently Purchased"? Congrats!. A full tune up would rule out a lot of the easy things, and, considering the year (97) the vac line is suspect and easy to rule out. Let's assume the previous owner performed zero maintenance for the last 3 years. Change the oil & filter, set the valve lash, change the spark plug, air filter, fill the battery, decomp solinoid check , fill the tires to the correct pressure(check for rot) and check the brake pad thickness. These are things that you will do at least once a season anyway. Become one with the motorcycle, sleep with the Clymers manual and make suzukisavage.com your home page :-) |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Oldfeller on 08/17/08 at 07:06:16 35 mph? Grab hold of your rear brake rod nut and turn it out 4-5 turns and run it that way for a tank of gas -- many of us found out the hard way we rest our toes on the brake pedal and cause dragging which kills gas mileage and robs open road power. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/17/08 at 08:08:42 Alrighty so I took a couple pics. You mentioned that the guy before me probably hadnt done anything with it for years and that much i would say is true. i got it for just over $1000 but i had to go through and re-tighten or replace almost every bolt on the body. the muffler he had wasnt baffled so i bought a harley muffler on ebay and put that on. i also put straight handlebars but those are the only real changes ive made. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/17/08 at 08:11:02 6F2D2A6C353031295E0 wrote:
Yeah My Clymers Guide has a good worn look to it already. Best Book Ever. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by drharveys on 08/17/08 at 11:23:41 Oh yeah -- time to disassemble, clean and rebuild that carbie. "Nut Brown" is the correct color for ale, not Mikunis! http://www.geocities.com/foxteka/mcnew004.jpg Oh yeah, great idea for a self-portrait! P.S. Reduce the size of the photos and they'll fit on the board. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by ero4444 on 08/26/08 at 19:46:08 I have to ask if you are pushing in the choke after the bike is warmed up? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/26/08 at 20:21:31 yeah the choke is back in where it should be. I plan on rebuilding the carb when i get a chance but between school and work its never a good time to render the bike useless. thank all very much for your help |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Phelonius on 08/27/08 at 10:24:54 46656D6F6C65656C7B090 wrote:
It will also ruin the rear wheel hub and brake. I loaned a 650 Yamaha to a girlfriend and she did this so much the heat dried out the bearings and the brake hub was wiped out too. She says she didn't do it but what caught my attention to the matter was the brake light always on when she rode. I had to buy a new hub and have the rim laced onto it. Phelonius |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/30/08 at 17:57:44 Alright friends here's the update. I took the carb apart piece by piece and did the standard dip of every metal part into the carb cleaner and left the plastics or rubbers alone. put it all back together and the bike starts beautifully. However, If I give it gas, enough to actually get going, it dies instantly. What did I do wrong? Before http://www.geocities.com/foxteka/carb001small.jpg" After http://www.geocities.com/foxteka/carb009small.jpg" |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/30/08 at 18:41:56 Sorry, Service Temporarily Unavailable. Funny, that's what your bike says when you goose it. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/30/08 at 19:24:20 I laughed but on the inside im crying, any ideas on why its doing that? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/30/08 at 19:38:08 When I tried to look at the pics, it gave me the... Sorry, Service Temporarily Unavailable. So, No, I havent a clue.. sorry! |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/30/08 at 19:52:27 Pictures should link now. Thanks. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/30/08 at 20:00:31 Nope. Still unavailable due to maintenance on their server. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Trippah on 08/30/08 at 20:03:32 Well, as a guess..I'd think you might have had some build up/blockage in the carb due to sitting; cleaning it out now mackes it run too rich. I suspect given the un baffled muffler on the bike you purchased, the PO also may have (almost must have) change the main jet and it might now require going back down a 1/2/ size?? Still can't get to the pictures..good luck. The lesson, no good cleaning goes unpunished :D |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/30/08 at 20:05:18 What size jets are in it? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/31/08 at 00:09:27 I remember seeing a 230 on the bigger of the two gets at the top of the carb and a 145 on the jet in the bowl underneath... does that mean anything to anyone? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/31/08 at 10:08:54 After Cleaning http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w151/jkuliszinstall/carb009small.jpg Before Cleaning http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w151/jkuliszinstall/carb001small.jpg |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/31/08 at 10:16:55 also i looked up OEM parts list and it shows that the two jets that i mentioned earlier are the right numbers. thoughts? Main Jet 145 Pilot Jet 230 Also I forgot to mention that when I was taking the carb apart the main jet in the bottom wasnt screwed in... it was laying in the sludge at the bottom of the bowl. lovely lovely caramel sludge. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/31/08 at 10:51:23 The pilot jet is not on the top of the carb. It too is accessed through the bowl. http://suzukisavage.com/images/uploaded/CarbBottomweb.jpg |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/31/08 at 11:16:30 That 230 pilot jet reference has me confused. I would expect that to be 45-50. Are you choking it to start it? Walk us through the steps to make it "start beautifully." |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 08/31/08 at 13:14:52 The 230 jet was labeled pilot on the page here lebeled #42 http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-ls650pv-savage-1997/o/m6329 so to start it i choke it for not more than 2 or 3 seconds, put the choke in and it runs fine. if i give it a little more gas consistantly it dies in the next 10-15 seconds but if i rev it up a good amount it will die right away. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/31/08 at 14:05:04 I'll have to go back and read through this thread again. I'm losing track of who's who in all the threads I'm following. I can tell you that #42 in that drawing is not the pilot jet. #18 is the pilot jet. With the bowl off, if you look up from the bottom of the bike, the pilot is right in front of the main jet. You cannot get to it from the top of the carb. I'll check the manual and other sources. I think #42 might be the pilot air jet, which is something different. Back in a flash. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/31/08 at 14:27:35 I looked at the Clymers and the Savage Companion CD, and I believe that is the pilot air jet. I just read all the way back through the thread. It kind of sounds like you are just sucking the bowl dry. If you open the throttle a little, it takes a few seconds. If you hammer it, it runs dry right away. Have you done all the checking and probing and whatnot to make sure your petcock is operating correctly? You might try running it on prime and see if it quits acting up. Also, if your main jet was sitting at the bottom of the bowl in a glob of goo, and you didn't remove and clean the pilot jet, you probably want to do that. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/01/08 at 17:53:11 So I took the carb apart again thinking I may have inverted the 145 and the 230 jets because they look the same but everything is where it should be. I got it all back together and tried it out and it does the same thing. idles wonderfully and dies in acceleration. I thought that perhaps its not getting enough air through the dirty airfilter to compensate for the new unsludged gas so i removed the air filter to allow max air flow and it still dies when revved up. when i took the carb apart again there was plenty of gas in the bowl but i tried running the bike on prime anyway to test your theory but it dies even faster. So im thinking if its fuel supply isnt the problem, and its air supply isnt the problem, perhaps the spark plug just isnt hitting effectively enough to combust all the ingredients when they are added in larger amounts. The spark plug that is in my engine is an 18mm. the problem here is, an 18mm deep drive socket is too wide to fit down the tiny not a very nice person that this thing is installed in, and the 17mm isnt big enough to get around the plug itself. So first off does anyone think my notion of a whimpy spark might be reasonable? and 2, if that is the case, how in the world am i supposed to get the plug out if 17 is too small for the plug and 18 is too big to get down the hole? p.s. the reason i know its an 18 is because the normal size 18mm socket fits perfectly, but its outter width is about 1mm less that those of any deep drive or spark plug sockets. I'd almost prefer to be getting the 35 mpg at this point :p Also thanks to everyone who has been reading along and trying to help, its calming to know im not alone on this. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/01/08 at 17:55:18 another side note. I was never able to remove the bottom pilot jet because it was stripped before i even got to it, but it still got dunked in carb cleaner with the rest of the main body and then dried with compressed air so im hoping its as clean as everything else. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/01/08 at 19:58:44 I use a 3/4 socket on my spark plug, it doesn't fit exact but it will bite and remove the spark plug. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/01/08 at 21:12:35 3/4 inch works out to right around 19mm, if the 18mm wont fit there is no way i can get a 19 in there... thanks for the idea though. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/02/08 at 04:03:14 I bit the bullet, went to the dealer, and bought the spark plug socket that's made to fit. It was about ten bucks. If my time is worth anything, I've already saved that much not screwing around trying to fake a connection. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by EssForty on 09/02/08 at 04:13:54 Did you look in your OEM toolkit for the spark plug socket? When I did my first tuneup I tried a socket from my big metric socket set. Not deep enough. I went to Ace, Home Depot, Harbor Freight, etc looking for a deep socket that would fit and then I thought...wait..I think I saw a cheesy spark plug socket in my toolkit. Sure enough, I went home, opened the kit and there it was. Luckily I had some other items to buy so it had not been a totally wasted trip. But I felt pretty silly when I found the item I needed in the tool bag on my bike! |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/02/08 at 09:23:31 I guess I will hit up the dealer for the socket. This bike was without a toolkit when I bought it. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by T Mack 1 on 09/02/08 at 13:47:20 The deep well metric socket I got at Auto-Zone fits......... sorry, I have a 20, a 19 and a 18....... I don't remember which one worked..... I had a extra (old) plug and the one that fit the plug was the one I used. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/02/08 at 19:17:54 372930352F265C0 wrote:
Does anyone know if prime delivers fuel at a higher rate than the vacuum settings? If the thing is flooding, and prime allows more fuel to pass, then the problem is likely to be, what, a stuck float? Have you checked your float level? Have you confirmed that the float needle is seating and stopping the flow when it is supposed to? Put a clear tube on the bowl drain, bend it so the open end is above the level of the bowl/carb body joint, and switch to prime. The fuel should not rise above the level of the top of the bowl, I think. Somebody jump in here and contradict me if I'm off, before he spends time chasing one of my red herrings. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/03/08 at 08:01:40 Easy to see which dumps faster, prime or "On". Disconnect fuel line, grab something with a second hand, Put it on Prime & time it as it fills a glass up. Dump that back in the tank, fire the thing up & time it, filling the glass again. If it dies even faster on prime, as Sandy pointed out, that would make me think it fills the bowl faster on prime. If the bowl being over filled is the problem, maybe the float valve is bad, or the float is stuck or is sunk, but I havn't seen that( punctured float) with these carbs yet. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by EssForty on 09/03/08 at 17:51:44 It's all gravity flow, except that when the petc0ck is in ON, and the engine is off, the flow is switched off. When it is on reserve it flows from the lower part of the tank thru the mesh filter. If that is clogged you have issues since you are introducing a new path of gravity flow. As long as it is the same liquid thru the same tube path with the same height of gas in the tank, there should be no difference in flow rate. The vacuum neither retards nor accelerates flow. Think of it as a engine-operated spigot and the amount of gas you get in a cup is only dependent upon how long the spigot is opened, not how the spigot was opened. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by verslagen1 on 09/03/08 at 19:25:52 To be absolutely correct... 'prime/reserve' is capable of flowing more gas than 'on'. Why? cause the 'prime/reserve' pickup is about 3" lower. Which probably doesn't mean much to a full tank, but when nearly empty, let's say 1" over the top of the 'on' pick up, witching to 'prime/reserve' will instantly quadruple the pressure the inlet sees. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by EssForty on 09/04/08 at 04:39:52 Good point, and 100% correct in the scenario you describe. You will get faster flow any time you can tap a location (new path) that gives you a higher column of liquid (more head pressure). From that standpoint, with a full tank you'll get a faster flow from prime, unless the mesh filter is clogged. I was just trying to clarify the fact that the vacuum is not providing any suction/siphon effect that would influence fluid dynamics. I've seen a few other posts where a poster seemed confused about this. Some may not know that if fuel gets into the vacuum line, then you can lose the suction required to operate the switch. But if the vacuum is adequate to switch fuel flow on, it comes down to good old gravity flow /head pressure and the relative height of fluid. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/04/08 at 04:47:16 If the vacuum is adequate to open the valve part way but not all the way, or not constantly, it seems like you will also see a greater flow on prime, right? However, I've been looking at my dismantled petcock and I think the prime hole is smaller, which adds a new variable. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/05/08 at 15:06:42 Sorry its taken me so long to get back but with school and work its hard to find time to eat much less get the tools out. I tried the idea with putting a hose underneath the carb to see if the fuel would rise above the level of the carb bowl and after 4 trials and severl ounces of gas all over me my results seem unclear. 3 times the level stayed pretty constant with the level of the top of the bowl but one trial the gas came shooting out the top of the hose that was several inches higher than the bowl. I'm about to use some part numbers from the carb diagram on http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-ls650pv-savage-1997/o/m6329 page. I remember when I was cleaning the carb I thought that the filter (20) that goes with the float needle was also metal so i through it in the carb cleaner for good measure. I dont entirely know how the whole float needle system works at all so im just grasping at air for hope in getting my bike working again, but if this filter (part 20) isnt metal and the carb cleaner ruined it somehow, is this a possible reason for the bike to idle like a champ and yet die when revved or primed? Also a side note you all might find funny. The first container i used to catch the gas that came out of the bowl when i first undid its screw was a plastic cup. I set the cup down on a wooden table that i cover with newspaper as a tiny portable workbench. so i went to pick up the cup to poor the gas back in and the gas had eaten away the bottom of the cop so when i lifted it all came out the bottom like and old school bugs bunny episode. gotta find the good in the bad. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by YonuhAdisi on 09/05/08 at 17:46:19 746A73766C651F0 wrote:
That is why I always tear an aluminum can in half and use it for tests like that. ;) ;) |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Foxman on 09/05/08 at 18:50:25 Quote:
Im pretty sure part 20 is like a metal mesh type screen. However part 21 is an o-ring that slides on the valve and fits in a groove. It it was soaked in carb spray it could cause it to leak with gas comming from around the valve instead of up through it. Im not sure if this would be whats causing it to die when u give it gas though. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/05/08 at 19:19:12 Yeah I learned at a young age playing paintball to take care of the O-rings. So no worries friend, I took that baby off before they took the dip. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Charon on 09/06/08 at 06:46:36 The float system in a carburetor works just exactly like the float valve in a toilet tank, except for being smaller. It has a float, which floats in the fuel in the bowl. That float is linked to a needle valve which controls fuel flow. If the fuel is low in the bowl, the float drops and allows the fuel valve to open. The open valve allows fuel to flow into the bowl. When the fuel rises high enough the float rises and shuts off the flow. The overall effect is to control the fuel level in the bowl fairly closely. The fuel level in the bowl is important, because if it is wrong the rest of the carburetor won't work correctly. Problems arise when: The needle valve is worn and cannot control the fuel correctly. The float is damaged and no longer floats at the right level. Dirt particles get caught in the needle valve and hold it open. Water or dirt gets into the bowl. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/08/08 at 21:25:48 I took off the bowl again and took a closer look at the float and needle valve. everything looks perfect there and i checked the clymer to make sure the float isnt upside down or anything silly like that. I read about adjusting the little flap on the float to change richness of the fuel and i tried that and the bike wouldnt idle well and still died on rev. so i put it back to where it started and we are back to the same old problem. I found another carb on ebay for $85 with shipping.... do I dare? I figure giving this bike to a mechanic would cost at least that much in labor to identify the problem. help =) |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by justin_o_guy2 on 09/08/08 at 23:49:54 The flap on the float is to set the level of the fuel in the bowl. The idea is to fil the bowl without flooding the bike. Setting the float a bit lower than the book calls for may be fine, but higher invites allowing too much fuel in. A piece of tubing on the nipple on the carb bowl, with the bike sitting upright, will allow you to see where the fluid level is in the bowl. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by serowbot on 09/09/08 at 00:14:31 455B42475D542E0 wrote:
LOL!...hate it when that happens..... Use to have an old dog "Shandy", she always liked to help...I'm pulling weeds, she pulls weeds too. When I'm working on the car/bike,...every time I turn my back, she's taken parts I've removed...and removed them.... Rigged a speaker magnet to a pole so I could comb the yard for lugnuts etc. when I was done.....she meant well... |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 01:12:58 Just when I thought I had the answer. I bought another carb and the problem remains. the bike idles like a champ and dies when revved up. I know you have been with this thread for a while and i really do appreciate all of your support but does anyone have any ideas? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/14/08 at 06:59:23 Did you ever pull the spark plug out? If so, what did it look like? If not, that's the next place I'd go if it were mine. Also, where do you have your valves set? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 09:56:29 I never found a socket that would fit down in there but i talked to the guy who sold me the bike and he told me that he did change the spark plug just days before selling it. as far as valves, im afraid youve lost me... |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/14/08 at 10:45:05 Well, you have fuel flow from the tank, and two carburetors are not likely to have the same exact problem (although it wouldn't be unheard of). So let's assume the problem is not fuel related for the moment... The three requirements for combustion of any kind are: fuel, oxygen, and heat. Fuel and air are covered already, so I'm thinking heat (spark) is a likely candidate. When you rev the engine and it dies, does it go softly? Does it backfire? Does it stop suddenly, like it would if you dropped the clutch with the brake on? Does it cough and sputter and try to run, but then just give up? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 11:24:47 It is a very soft death of the engine, there is no backfire. it doesnt sputter. i guess it would be like letting the clutch out with the break on. I went to another 3 stores and finally hit up sears which now that i have finally seen the inside of might be a first stop from now on. i have the right socket and im about to get a new spark plug. i will let you know. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 12:45:18 Alright one deep drive thin walled 18mm socket and spark plug later... same problem? This is confusing. I made a video of it dying and I will have it on youtube shortly. Air+Gas+Spark= nothing? so confusing!!!! |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 12:58:06 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PuOlLGhZNnk should be ready shortly. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by serowbot on 09/14/08 at 12:58:40 "so confusing!!!!" You can say that again!...Sorry can't be of more help. The boot between the carb and the engine is good, right? No cracks, well seated? If so, it's gotta' be spark...maybe the coil. Or the plug wire. Check the plug wire at night , in the dark, and see if you can see little lightning bolt trails of spark running down the outside of the wire. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/14/08 at 14:11:24 It would appear your clutch safety switch is disabled. I can't be certain, but can't see your neutral light shining either. Could one of those be wreaking havoc when the engine hits a certain RPM? I'm guessing now. Never fooled with those yet. It dies like mine does when I put the kickstand down and I'm still in gear, is why I ask. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 14:20:18 Too bright to see the green light i guess but it was definately on. if my stand is down and the bike is in gear it doesnt hesitate to kill the motor and remind me who is boss =) |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 09/14/08 at 14:57:44 Hmmm... It definitely acted like mine during an electrical shutdown, instead of running out of gas. No cough, just instant nogo. Although, the one time, when you eased on the throttle, it wanted to die but kept running when you stopped adding. That makes me think it is RPM related, which takes me out of the running among competitors for who will figure it out. I'm electrically challenged. I recall someone awhile back having trouble with his stereo shutting off at a very particular RPM. I can't remember who it was or whether he found a solution, but perhaps someone else will know. Sorry, but for the moment I'm at a loss. Gotta call in the Guys Who Know Stuff on this one. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by serowbot on 09/14/08 at 15:45:44 I'm on dial-up so it took a while...but great idea using u-tube. You seem to have ruled out any fuel problem, so I have to say spark. My understanding of rectifiers is that they are usually go-no-go, and the bike idles, you've changed plug,...so that leads to coil, or plug wire, plug cap. RonAyers lists coil/plug wire at $70.00, cap at $14.00. Not sure that would fix it, but can't think of anything else. Hope someone else has better news for you... http://fiche.ronayers.com/Index.cfm/Module/Main/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/2/Make/Suzuki/YearID/38/Year/1997/ModelID/6345/Model/LS650P_SAVAGE/GroupID/261304/Group/ELECTRICAL_MODEL_T_V_W_X_Y_K1_K2_K3 |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 16:22:25 What exactly does the coil wire cap dealie do? how do they interfere with the bike being able to accellerate? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by serowbot on 09/14/08 at 16:38:20 The coil makes the spark, that travels down the wire, to the cap, that sits on top of the sparkplug, that makes the sparkplug spark My thinking is that if the coil is weak, it may not be able to provide the sparks at a fast enough rate to get off idle,..or if the wire is going bad, some of the spark is getting redirected to ground and the spark plug is only getting partial juice from the coil. Look at the wire at night, and see if you see anything running down the outside of the wire. Like trails of miniature lightning. That would be a bad wire. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Charon on 09/14/08 at 17:40:40 When the engine is idling, cylinder pressures are at about the lowest they will ever be. That makes it easier for the spark to jump the plug gap. As the throttle is opened the cylinder pressures rise, and it becomes more difficult for the spark to jump the plug gap. In turn, that means the spark voltage rises. If there is a weak spot in the insulation of the plug wire, such as a chafed spot, the spark may find it easier to jump that spot instead of the plug gap. If the plug is incorrectly gapped (too wide) the spark might not make it across under high-pressures. I'd start by changing the plug, as being an easy troubleshooting job (besides, after going through the work to get at it, you are better off changing it than fooling with trying it again). While all the parts are off you have good access to look over all the other wiring. If it will idle, the valves and the other mechanicals can't be far wrong, and it is exceedingly unlikely the same problem exists with both carburetors. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/14/08 at 20:09:26 i did change the spark plug already so there is a brand new one in there. if i remove the tank to get in there to see the wires... how do i get the bike to turn on and see the possible sparks without a gas tank to feed the system? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by T Mack 1 on 09/15/08 at 08:24:25 Since you pretty much ruled out fuel, the probelm can be weak spark OR low compression. As Charon said, idle is easy to make spark and also WOT, but mid range is the area were pressures and fuel mixture factors make harder to get enough spark. I suggest you do a compression check first. Not sure if you can rent a tester, I usually borrow on from my friends. (taking a six pack of beer along .... that works wonders when trying to borrow stuff). Remember that the decompression solenoid need to be disabled. As for weak spark, - first check the battery. It needs to be over 12 votls. Actually I think over something like 12.1 or 12.5 but can't remember. Here's a tip. When I troubleshoot a bike, I dig out my boat's trolling motor battery. It's the same voltage (12V -14V) so it would hurt anything but has tons more resreve so you can fiddle around more before it goes dead. Once the bike is running then put the MC battery back in. - second, check the wiring connectors for dirt or corrosion. Clean as needed. - thrid, that hard plastic cap thing (sparkplug boot) contains a resistor to help control radio interference. It can go bad from heat (and we all know that the LS650 never makes any heat .... NOT). There is a resistance measurement listed in the manual. If it measures bad replace it. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by T Mack 1 on 09/15/08 at 08:31:43 Ok, just watched your YouTube video. Question, when you rebuilt the carb, did you take the slide apart to check the white spacer??? If so, are you sure it's back together correctly???? It affects the throttle response at about 1/8 to 1/4 throttle. Back together wrong and it would be way too rich and the bike would stall with no backfire. I see you are in S.A. So is Youzguyz. Maybe you could PM him and do a meet & greet to brainstorm a bit. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 09/15/08 at 11:22:04 Okay so all that compression test talk might be a little over my head and I have no idea where to get a hold of a compression tester. If i can get a hold of one I will give that a try. If the slide youre talking about is the giant black thing that goes down the middle of the carb from the top then no, i didnt take that apart. i just set that aside and then put it back in when everything else was shiney clean. |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 10/04/08 at 18:08:10 Alrighty team. I know its been a while but school and work have stolen so much of my free time. I got another coil-wire-cap combo from ebay. the bike has the same idling find no accel problem. I suppose there is a chance that the ebay listing lied http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=024&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=370081623537&rd=1 thats the listing if it matters. I think that tuesday i will have this poor thing towed into the shop unless anyone else has any last minute clearity? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by youzguyz on 10/05/08 at 10:26:12 PM received and repied |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by Kulisz on 10/18/08 at 10:39:01 CHECK IT OUT. the bike works after a ridiculous amount of time and brain busting effort. I remembered that when i took the carb apart to clean it the main jet was sitting the goo puddle... so i just removed it and the bike runs. the key to fixing things is REMOVING vital components? thoughts? |
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Title: Re: Terrible Gas Mileage Post by JakeB on 10/18/08 at 19:57:39 When you removed the old plug did it look like the mixture was rich or lean? If removing the main jet makes the bike run better something seems to be clogged up in there. With the main jet in try choking it as you apply the throttle, if it doesn't die/ or not as quickly with the choke out, then it I would go back through the carb and reclean it. Make sure to blow compressed air and carb cleaner through all passages and use a small brass wire from a brass brush to clean jets and other passages. Sometimes the gunk in some passages doesn't get completely cleaned out when dipped. Also, when you put the slide back in make sure the slide and its home are extremely clean. Any oils on there can cause it to hang up on accel. just wipe them off with rubbing alcohol before putting it together. |
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