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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1218344452 Message started by MickeyX on 08/09/08 at 22:00:52 |
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Title: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/09/08 at 22:00:52 Alright, I have a 1986 with original carb and not sure if jets are orig. So, I've been having a nagging, running-nonrunning issue with the bike. It would start fine, run okay-ish until it warmed up and then I had a hard time keeping it running every time I stopped at a light. I put on a Dyna muff since the orig one was drilled out in a bad way by the PO. Did the carb setting that Lancer suggests. Still same problem as before. Checked the plug and it was ok. Pulled the carb and it was crusty. The vacuum line had gas in it too. Had the carb cleaned and checked over. Seems in pretty good condition. BUT... now, it's overflowing gas and the plug is totally wet. I've got the screw in at 1 turn at this point. It won't stay running unless I crank on the throttle. I put the idle way high but that did nothing. Pulled the carb back off and took a look at the float. No gas inside either bubble that I can tell and it seems to move fine. The little needle attached to the float seems to slide ok too but maybe something happened there that is hard to detect? Is there anyway I can test the float part to see if it sticks or the needle stays open? Are there any other factors that I can test? Once this is all figured out, I guess I should change my oil? I figure it's gotta be going somewhere besides out the overflow tubes. Thanks for any advice. :) |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/09/08 at 22:18:27 Possible the float is just simply set so high its not shutting off the fuel flow? Does it always flood out the vent tubes? If its intermittent, then something is hanging up.If its constant, & the floats are floating & the needle valve & seat are okay, then the floats have to be set wrong, right? |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by LANCER on 08/10/08 at 05:43:30 Initial impression ... you have several things going on, all old age related. Gas in vac line: usually caused by petc0ck, especially on older bikes. Valve starts breaking down and allowing fuel to run down vac line which fills up float bowl and spills fuel all over. Putting the petc0ck in the "prime" position will bypass that temporarily until it can be fixed. Crusty carb: OOOOH, very nasty stuff. Anytime you open a carb and find crusty crud, there is only one thing to do and that is to take the whole thing apart...every bolt, screw, washer, jet, spring, gasket, o-ring ... everything, and compare it to an exploded parts diagram to make sure you infact do have every single part that is supposed to be there. Parts may be missing or modified (ie butchered) by previous owner/helpers. Clean everything and be sure that ALL PASSAGEWAYS are totally clear and free flowing. Replace all jets, bowl gasket, 0-rings and little spring that hold the adjusting screw in. Also, with an old bike you never know what someone may have done to the carb in the past. Some folks think they can hammer and drill most anything and with a carb that is obviously NOT the way to treat a sensitive instrument. The assorted tuning problems you mentioned can all be traced back to worn/broken/missing parts and clogged passageways. There is no easy way around an old carb ... IT NEEDS TO BE TOTALLY REBUILT FROM SCRATCH. Replacing the basic jets (pilot, main, air), bowl gasket, and o-ring w/ spring for adj screw and idle screw is cost effictive. The needle is not too much either, but the needle jet may be a bit much and the slide w/ rubber diaphram is costly. If that needs replacing then the total cost of the rebuild begins to approach the crossover point of getting a new aftermarket carb replacement. Of course there is always ebay, where good deals can be found on late model carbs ... look for low milage parts just a few years old. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/10/08 at 08:51:42 sigh. I was hoping this was going to be easier than that. So far, there has been nothing easy about this bike. I've had it for many months now and have yet to hit 300 miles on it. The biggest problem is getting my hands on parts or upgrades that will work. :( I just saw a 2002 carb on ebay from a bike that had 10,000 miles on it when the motor blew. I may have to go put a bid in. I'm really not in the mood to rebuild any more carbs at the moment. (the other bike has 4 and is finally purring. total rebuild. she was in a barn for years and some of it was in boxes.) The difference is... when the other one is set, it's set. No messing around for years to get it to behave. It's also a 650 but the power, comfort, and stability is like night and day compared to a Savage. I may have to just sell this one at the end of the season and take my losses. Someone will get a good bike when I'm done though. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by serowbot on 08/10/08 at 10:58:38 Buying a new carb won't fix the petc0ck. Take care of that problem first, then see how she runs. You can try running on prime like Lancer said, but be sure to block both ends of the vac line, otherwise gas will still leak down into the carb. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/10/08 at 11:25:11 I've replaced the little o-ring at the petcock because my jeans were getting wet with gas when I rode. That leak stopped but I still think there is something wrong there. Mine is def leaking out the vacuum side. I put a bid in on a petcock from the same bike. I looked at the mod in the tech area. I'm one of those people who would regularly forget to turn off the petcock and come outside on a daily basis to a large pool of gas under my bike so I think I'll just get a good used one instead. Although, I think that is a great idea to do the mod. I just know myself too well to think I won't ruin something. As for the carb, looking at the diaphragm, there's no holes. The metal pipe below it, what ever that part is called, is all scored and rough. I'm not sure if the color started out black, or if it got that way over the years, but it's just scratched to h*ll. It feels like it hangs up a bit and has a light grinding sound when moved inside the body of the carb. I've checked the floats themselves and there isn't any gas in them but I'm not convinced that the valve assembly needle is ok. The jets need replaced too. I have a 155 and I'm not sure what else. All passages run through well. No blockages. I don't know if I'll end up with the carb. The bidding is done in a few minutes and there is another guy wanting them pretty bad too. We'll see. I prbably have the petcock, no problem. I'll get it for around $23 or so. The carb is at $96 right now. Gotta go check the status. Either way, they probably both need replaced and the old carb will be rebuilt and given with the bike as a spare. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/10/08 at 11:52:03 Hmmm, I got both for under $120. Not too bad. That's like getting a free petcock and not having to spend all of that time rebuilding the whole carb. (I work in a trauma hospital and I rarely have free time. It's busy season right now with all of those tiny scooters out there. :o) Hopefully, I should have my parts by the end of the week and have her on the road next weekend. I hope so. I'm having another surgery the following week and might not be able to ride for a little while. Thanks for the comments. I'll still check the next carb and clean it up before install. They aren't exactly easy to get in and out, are they? I've become pretty quick with the fuel tank though. Although, I can get the spark plug out without removing the tank, it is a PITA. Off the check the oil. Should I just plan on one immediate change over or will I need to do it a few times to clear the gas out? I assume Seafoam couldn't hurt? |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by oksavage on 08/10/08 at 19:11:33 when checking for gas in the vac line does the bike need to be running? I am experiencing many of the same problems, I also have an 86, just recently cleaned the carb ala savagewahine, rode ok for awhile then poof, trouble. if I really crank the throttle I get some loud bangs and flames. I've tried to adjust the air screw but honestly I can't tell any difference she still backfires at shutdown. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/08 at 22:50:27 If the slide is roughed up & the carb body that receives it is too, not sure how Id go about that,, Maybe a wooden dowel with fine sandpaper, or a folded wire to make a loop, chucked up in a drill, with sandpaper in that, spinning inside the cavity that the slide runs in? Some fine sandpaper oughta smooth the slide out. Maybe this wouldnt be all perfect, but may allow you to get to riding & not spend too much more. I dont know how rough this is, so maybe its toast,, I hope not, good luck, |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by LANCER on 08/11/08 at 04:57:09 If there is roughness on the slide or in the body where the slide resides, then be gentle in working on it. I use a very fine grit with warm water/dish detergent solution and gently rub it with my finger until the desired smoothness is achieved. Do as little work needed in order to remove the least amount of material to achieve the desired result. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/11/08 at 05:00:56 Mickey X said : It's busy season right now with all of those tiny scooters out there. ) Are you saying those little scooters are more dangerous than the regular sized motorcycles? Or that the people who buy them have no idea its really a motorcycle, disrepect them & crash? |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by serowbot on 08/11/08 at 10:02:17 5F5B435146515755300 wrote:
Nope, it don't have to be running...better if it isn't...matter of fact should not be running. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/16/08 at 10:12:16 Alright, I took your advice and put the new petcock in first. Still running a little rough but not overflowing the gas everywhere. I took a look in the new/used carb I got and it's filthy. When he blew his engine, he blew it everywhere. I looked at the slide body and it wasn't too bad, just dirty. I cleaned it and switched them out. Slid very smooth. I switched the float needle, just in case. Put the original carb back in. Purrrrrrs like a kitten now. This is how I imagined she should run from the time I bought her. I'll get her out for a little screaming match in a bit and see if she stays running out on the road. (right after I change the oil again) That's where I was seeing all of the problems anyway. One thing... I've tried Lancers' method of tuning the screw and I get no difference. It doesn't bog down either the whole way in or the whole way out. (I left it at 1.5 turns out.) I was trying to search on what that means, but didn't find it yet. Bigger or smaller jets? I'll check out what the new carb has in it and maybe switch them up if they will work. Otherwise, petcock is fixed and doing well and the bike idles and cranks up nice. Barely even hit the starter. Used to take a few rounds for her to catch. Interesting side effect I hadn't counted on. Thanks for all of your help. Out to do the oil and new plug. Still need some input on the jet issue though if any of you know. I'll check what is in the new one a while, too. (btw, I put the original carb back in because it was already clean. I was anxious. ::)) Edit: I have a 17mm oil plug bolt. I'm thinking I remember that Craftsman sells stubby length wrenches. Anyone know? I may have to go get one. I used a short adjustable the last 2 changes. I really hate to do that tho. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by T Mack 1 on 08/16/08 at 18:10:42 45616B636D7150080 wrote:
Aaaaaaa... if you come in from the front , a push down lossens the bolt..... to do that you need a regular lenght wrench |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/16/08 at 20:54:30 Aaaaaa... I tried my regular length wrench and no matter which way I flip it, I either can't get purchase or I can't move it unless I dig a hole under it. The box end is the ratcheting type and won't fit over the bolt at all. Can't get a socket on it either. Hence the need, in this case, for a shorter wrench. I probably have one in the tool kit anyway. I just never looked. I have a hard time fitting all of that stuff back in and jamming the cover back on. So, I try not to use those unless I have no other choice. Thanks though. Glad yours works. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by Max_Morley on 08/16/08 at 21:11:56 I use a short one all the time even on a platform cycle lift, one bump with the shot hammer and it is lose. If you can find a 6 point one it is even better than the 12 point as there is less chance of rounding off the drain plug hex corners. Max |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by verslagen1 on 08/16/08 at 21:31:41 Are you using a 6 point wrench or 12? I usually put a 4x4 under the front tire for my oil pan. |
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Title: Re: Yes, even more carb problems. Imagine that. Post by MickeyX on 08/16/08 at 22:13:43 I have Gear Wrenches from Sears. Same thing as the Craftsman ones but I don't have to flip it over to ratchet the other direction. Anyway, I can't get the box end on there because it's too thick on the sides. I don't want to round it off with the open end cuz I can't quite get on it the whole way. I'll check my tool kit in the a.m. before we head out for a ride. I'm sure I have one there. I'd be floored if they didn't include one for that. :o |
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