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SuzukiSavage.com
/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Trouble changing the oil /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1217961014 Message started by mpescatori on 08/05/08 at 11:30:13 |
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Title: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/05/08 at 11:30:13 You may remember I mentioned in another thread I had overfilled the engine by at least two, maybe three pints too many... I read your comment(s) and also read (OldFeller's???) tip on how to flush the engine easily and safely... by using diesel oil. OK, so I went over to the local "el-cheapo" Autoparts Mom&Pop shop, bought ... 10 quarts of 15W40 gas/diesel oil and prepared to do "change #1"... ... :-/ ... So what friggin' size IS that bolt in the bottom of the oil sump ? 14mm? 15mm? It's not a 17mm..., but 14 and 16 run round and round like they were undersize... ...and I've never ever heard of a 16mm bolt... Help, please? :'( |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/05/08 at 11:34:09 should be either 14 or 17mm. You got the wrench on the right bolt? If damaged, you may need to get a pair of vice grips. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/05/08 at 11:36:25 Depending on the year the drain plug is usually either a 14 or a 17. Did you buy this bike new or used? If used the PO may have boogered the drain plug and decided to just slap in another bolt of the correct threads but a different head size. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by 07S40rider on 08/05/08 at 12:02:05 are you sure its not basically rounded off? i.e like somebody tried to use a crescent wrench on it? Those things are round-o-matics in the right hands. :) |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/05/08 at 13:14:52 It's an '88, (4-speed) so it must be a 14mm... The bolt (stud... whatever) is alright, I changed the oil myself last summer but since then she was serviced last fall by not-so-fine, not-so-young cannibals who set her up very nicely (with the performance cam, too) but forgot to fix the oil nut in the head and... ...you can imagine the rest... That's why I overfilled, I must have topped up before the summer break (we had a LOT of rain early in the season) and topped up again last week... DOH ! >:( So I'll try again with the 14mm... wish me luck... |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by BOWDIER on 08/05/08 at 13:29:21 check the tec section for pics to make sure you are on the right bolt, I am not very tool handy but learning and I did the oil change in a few mintures after looing at the pics, and belive it is a 17 mm, |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/05/08 at 17:09:11 My '87 is a 14. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by YonuhAdisi on 08/05/08 at 17:14:42 MY 2000 is a 14 |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/05/08 at 19:56:56 In times of great confusion, I have been seen fitting a crescent very tightly, slipping it off & using that to help me get the correct wrench. If all else fails, I will use a crescent, but I use needlenose vise grips to adjust it as tight as I can on things I just Can Not allow to be rounded off. Also, smacking the wrench seems to work better that just applying pressure. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Max_Morley on 08/05/08 at 20:59:00 A six point box end wrench will do better than a 12 point. Max |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/05/08 at 23:34:28 577B6245577568767F631A0 wrote:
Yes, quite so... if only I could get one to fit... Another issue is the lean of the bike, even if I rest the sidestand on a big fat (old) phone book I still have a mere few inches and IIRC I had to flip the open-end wrench every 6th of a turn... ::) By the way... I've never checked the oil filter... can I just wash it in a bit of gasoline and put it back, or must I replace it altogether (there aren't many around, I may have to see a stealership...) |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Oldfeller on 08/06/08 at 02:44:05 You've been posting here and modding your bike for YEARS now and you haven't ever changed your oil filter? You top up your oil multiple multiple times between oil changes? How many miles do you go between oil changes? How many miles between filter changes? I'm curious -- some here change their oil & filter every 500 miles which I find excessive. I change my oil at least twice a year and my oil filter gets changed at the Christmas break oil change. I adjust my valves every 10,000 miles (valves are due again during a vacation break as a matter of fact). You are aware our bikes make finely powdered metal that rides around in our oil? That unless you use magnetics to get it all out of your oil system you are depend on a relatively coarse oil filter to stop the stuff from recirculating? And once that filter gets plugged up with crap, the bypass valve on the oil filter opens up and coarse stuff recirculates round and round and round again? |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/06/08 at 17:55:16 I dont work on the oil drain plug from the sidestand side. Its easier from the other side. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/07/08 at 02:55:19 I also work on the "other" side, like Justni does. To reply to Oldfeller, I bought the bike in October 2005, left it in a garage for ... months forgetting the petcock on "prime" so I had to haul it to a workshop... I've been buying parts for years, that's true, but so far I've only fiddled with removing the tank umpteen times to get to the spark plug, changing mirrors until I could find the kind that allowed me to see more than just elbows and shoulders, and fitted a rev counter. I also bought tons of other bits I've yet to fit... Most of you guys live in a house with a garage, I live in a 5th floor apartment in a condo with one of those "hotel style" underground garage, all I have is just a rectangle in yellow paint. In the state she's in, my Savage will do some... 300 miles (give or take) on one quart... remember I have a serious issue with a leaking oil cap that's already ruined two pair of jeans and one set of boots - which are now my standard riding gear. I'm well aware of the metallic crud that's in the system... the point is I've never changed the oil filter myself, (I've been billed for it every time though) and since I've seen all sorts of shapes and sizes, from mini-cartridge to simple steel gauze, I just asked. So, what's it like ? Is it compatible with any other kind, like a more modern 2-4 cylinder model or an enduro ??? I WANT to change the filter but nobody stocks them for bikes off the market over 10 years ago... |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by sjaskow on 08/07/08 at 11:29:40 5F4257415153465D405B320 wrote:
Bikebandit.com has part number 485535-001 http://www.bikebandit.com/houseofmotorcycles/suzuki-motorcycle-ls650pg-savage-p-1986-oil-pump/o/m6322sch231829 listed as oil filters for Savages back to 1986 so I imagine it should fit your year as well. According to their help page "International orders will be shipped by Fedex. All duties, taxes and brokerage fees are included in the order total. " so I imagine they ship to Italy. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/07/08 at 11:35:16 its the same filter from beginning till now. Also a dr650 I beleave and others. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/07/08 at 13:02:28 You sure the cap is defective? Is the O-ring still on it? If not, is there anything that would wrap around the body of the plug that would pack down on the case when you screw it in & stem the flow? Did you get the oil plug size yet? In case you missed it, a crescent wrench will make finding the size easy.IF no wrench will fit, then give it a feel & see if the thing is rounded off & irregular now. You may wind up having to take it somewhere where you can find a low spot to set the plug over & file to get it straight enough to use a crescent & break the plug loose, snug it up & go home to change oil, I have used a hammer & punch on rounded off stuff, but thats screwed into cast aluminium,,,& a crack there would be really bad news. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Max_Morley on 08/07/08 at 14:40:27 If it was me I'd order a new drain plug and new gaskets ( Mitisubshi Motors recommends a new gasket every time on aluminum cases, the dealer in Anchorage AK actually turned the plug boss out of the oil pan on a one of their customers cars, they taped the new gasket to every oil filter I bought there for our 86 Galant) before I took the old one out. Then toss the old one and be trouble free forward. FYI Suzuki doesn't know the size of their own Savage drain plug bolts, we even used the tech help line one time to try and get the correct ones, I finally went to the parts store and found some correct size spark plug gaskets that work fine. I go a couple oil changes before tossing them. i believe the drain plug is special as it is very long, I'd guess to maybe prevent dropping out if it came loose, you would notice the oil puddle or slippery back tire before it was gone. Max |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by KwakNut on 08/08/08 at 02:24:32 6A77627464667368756E070 wrote:
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/08/08 at 04:38:16 516D7B71546F6E1A0 wrote:
[/quote] Yes, true. Also true that Suzuki Europe stopped importing the Savage in th elate '90s when Euro1 emission standards became imperative, although the DR series is still selling. Apparently they considered the "California plumbing" an unnecessary complication for a bike that proved a very marginal seller. I'll try and find a DR650 filter, wish me luck. Also, I'll try and find a new drain plug, and file the old one from 14mm to 13mm, the point being that 14mm is next to unheard of in Europe, most sizes being either 13mm or 17mm, with no need for any other size inbetween. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/08/08 at 07:46:10 That means you got the english version of metric. 13mm ~ 1/2" 17mm ~ 11/16" |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/08/08 at 11:04:13 14 mm fits a 9/16ths socket better than a 14 mm socket. Grab a 9/16ths wrench & you are in BIDniss. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/10/08 at 02:40:11 Well... I DID IT !!! (not that it wasn't the first time, but all I had was the kerbside... (curbside?) Step 1, go to the local Autoparts, ask for "Oil Filter LS650", get the screwed eyed "huh ?" look from the attendant, ask for the oil filter catalogue, find the bike and point at item - ME, TARZAN, YOU, FILTER! Same as DR650 and DR760... ::) Step 2, buy all he's got (two) you never know... Step 3, try to stand bike quasi-vertical propping up sidestand on brick, struggle with cramped space... Step 4, realize it's a hopeless situation, find big thick slab of hardwood from nearby building site, prop bike leaning 60° on right side with slab of hardwood wedged between cylinder and kerbside... ::) Step 5, realize oil drain plug is 17mm, so the brand spanking new 14mm extra-thin ratchet is useless... :P fish out 17mm wrench and undo to almost there... Step 6, lean bike back on proper side, slide oil catch pan and undo final turn on oil plug... lick oil off hands (hmmm, tasty, like badly burnt BBQ sausages) and undo oil filler plug (which I shoulda done earlier) Step 7, undo 3 allen bolts off oil filter housing, pry open carefully, watchout for spring-loaded self destruct mechanism, cuss as another half pint of old oil trickles down your wrists, ain't gonna lick that off too... Step 8, proudly produce new oil filter, nod in self approval for having carefully peeled old oil gasket from filter housing so you can use it again ('specially 'cause I didn't have another one) "doh" yourself for forgetting which way is which to fit new oil filter, figure it out by "look&tell", hope for the best... Step 9, prepare to pour 2.5 liters new oil in sump, come to a screeching halt because you haven't put the oil drain plug in yet... OK, now pour that oil in, mop up dribbles, secure all filler caps, cuss at mechanic who replaced old 14mm drain plug with 17mm size but omitted gasket (make mental note to get one for next oil change) Step 10, stand back, look at bike proudly and go over all steps 1 - 9, pray that you haven't actually overlooked anything... realize car and house keys lie comfortably deep deep in your pockets and that you're mucked up to your elbows and that "ET, phone, home" is upostairs on the 5th floor... :P oh, bugger... Step 11 (optional) trundle up 5 floors with hands up high and elbows forward like a surgeon out of scrubbing, pound on door with elbows, feet, nose, anything to catch anybody's attention, head for the bathroom and scrub clean with dishwashing liquid (if it's good for frying pand and gentle on the hands, it's good for engine oil and still gentle on the hands) Step 12 (ya gotta do theis) scramble back down 5 floors to bike, toolroll left sprawled on pavement, empty oil bottles and old lady neighbor "humpf!!!", clean up and get outta sight ... By the way, this was a... NO BEER JOB ! (one beer after shower after all was cleaned up...) Went for a slow, real slow test ride after lunch just to check whether all plugs were on tight and oil filter was on properly... Seems all's OK, so... OK ! :D |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/08 at 06:00:21 2.5 liters? You still have a gap at the top of the siteglass? CONgratulations. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/10/08 at 07:15:15 2A353334292E1F2F1F27353972400 wrote:
Having moved house twice in the last 12 months... I have an original copy of the Clymer Handbook... somewhere... :P ...so I downloaded and printed the whole thing from the net... and forgot it in the office... ::) I thought remembering something about the engine holding two liters, plus another half for the oil filter... I guess I was remembering wrong, it must have been 1.8 liters plus another half pint for the oil filter = 2 liters. Anyway, I plan on changing the oil again next Friday, and again the Friday after next, with "el-cheapo" 15W40 (every 200 miles or so...) in order to "wash" or "flush" the engine as suggested by... OldFeller ? Changing the oil filter every second oil change as well. Hope this will clean the little window, it's pitch black in there... >:( Anyway, with a full 3.5 liters in the sumpo (ugh) the bike would barely cruise at 50mph and deliver some... 20 Km/l=55mpg One week later, after spewing a good half liter onto my ankles and on the ground, she would cruise at 55+ and deliver some 24 Km/liter=66mpg I now aim to cruising at the same 50-55mph and gettng at least 26Km/liter=72+mpg... I've actually grown fond of cruising so slow... you get to see the countryside, get sucked in the wake of speeding semis, and not so many bugs in your teeth, the big ones just bounce off... OUCH ! :D |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 08/10/08 at 08:28:30 Congratulations, Wide Open. ;) Don't forget Step #13: "Return hardwood to construction site before large angry man with hammer comes looking for the custom mantlepiece he just spent 6 days hand-carving into a rough-hewn looking beam." |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/10/08 at 08:37:46 So, the overflow issues were due to being overfilled? Where does oil come out? I am confused, again. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by Skid Mark on 08/10/08 at 19:00:49 Thanks for the chuckle guys. Just did my 1st self done oil change on mine and I can relate to how a simple job can devolve to a minor disaster. Had a time locating the the drain plug but found it after crawling around to the other side of the bike. Thankfully I saved the reciept for the oil catch basin. wife was sure I borrowed her baking pan. ;) |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by mpescatori on 08/14/08 at 01:01:14 Well, just did another gas fillup. The bike is really free revving, and I'm having troubles keeping my cruising speed to a mere 85-90km/h (55mph) 25,5 km/liter, which means... ::) 70 mpg, so I'm happy :) I've also lowered idling speed to the slowest "thump" she can handle on a warm engine, it's really "thump...thump...thump..." rather than thumpthumpthumpthump ;) |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by justin_o_guy2 on 08/14/08 at 11:22:55 Rev it uip Mpeasctori, iots starving for oil & sounding great as it dies a painful death. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by verslagen1 on 08/14/08 at 11:36:01 congrats, I would recommend a magnet oil plug as a replacement. |
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Title: Re: Trouble changing the oil Post by DocNeedles on 08/14/08 at 11:41:58 617C697F6F6D78637E650C0 wrote:
My 1986 is a 17mm, and I approach it from the side opposite the side stand. I wonder if it has been replaced? DocNeedles |
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