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Message started by sidny4 on 07/24/08 at 20:14:23

Title: Soft Screws
Post by sidny4 on 07/24/08 at 20:14:23

So tonight I decided my project was to rejet my carb and while I'm at it, do the white spacer mod. I got the carb out without TOO much hassle. I then started to take out the phillips screws but they are so ridiculously soft that the heads stripped on all of them. I grabbed my channel-locks and got them all off that way. Then when I tried taking the screws off of the cap on top to do the white spacer mod, those ones stripped too. Again, used the channel-locks and got them off. Then I tried to take the two screws that hold the plate which keeps the white spacer in place. Those stripped too. Now I'm pretty sure that I can get the other 8 screws replaced fairly easily. But how am I supposed to get those two little buggers out?

I would like to think that I know how to handle a screwdriver (grew up on a farm after all) but I have never had this much trouble with phillips head bolts. It's aggravating! >:(

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/08 at 20:25:43

How badly have you boogered the little ones? If you can get a pin punch to it, maybe you can drive the meat back to where it goes & get them loosened up a bit too. What tip did you use? A proper fit is essential. Theres more than 1 Phillips head.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by sidny4 on 07/24/08 at 20:31:34

well, they're not completely smooth yet, I can still get a little bit of a grip. I'm not sure what size phillips I used, it was a bigger one but it didn't slip as much as my next size smaller one so I went with it.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Paladin. on 07/24/08 at 20:36:03

An impact driver will loosen screws without messing up the heads.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Brandon on 07/24/08 at 20:45:09

Look up a drawing of the carb(can't find a link very quick right now sorry!) find these screw on it and get the size. I can't remember off hand what size they are. Then go to any industrial supply store and get that size in stainless socket head cap screws. That will save the trouble, as they will be far superior to the stock crap metal ones.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/08 at 21:00:45

A small pin punch & a LIGHT hammer,( maybe an endwrench) using a quick, light tap, directing the raised edge back toward the slot, reshaping the slot, on all 4 edges that get pressure from the screwdriver tip during removal, then, as was stated, an impact driver with the right bit #, may just save yer bacon.

It's okay to stick a screw in a piece of junk & booger it up & practice first.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by sidny4 on 07/25/08 at 22:18:54

Ok, so I bought a few screw extracters (#1 and #2, just in case) Neither one of them worked so I decided to just skip the white spacer mod. I rinsed that piece out a few times in gas (to get any metal shards from trying to get those little buggers) and put it back together. Now, I'm all the way in on the brass idler screw with no change, I get out to about 1 and 3/4 and it starts dying. I put it back to 1 turn out and the backfire seems to have gone away. Is this setting ok or should I put a smaller jet in? I put the 152.5 one in.

I'll take it for a longer run to see if the backfire is completely gone yet or not.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/25/08 at 23:05:00

Unless I missed something, which is entirely possible, you are monkeying with the wrong jet to help tune out backfiring. You want to change your pilot jet if the screw isn't adjusting things enough to stop it.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Jay on 07/25/08 at 23:12:55

Sandy,
I too buggered up the tiny screws. I wish I could tell you what size they were, but I can tell you I found the replacements only at ACE. I eventually, very carefully, drilled them out. Sweated bullets doing it too. Good luck.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by sidny4 on 07/26/08 at 08:30:43

I bought lancer's jetset and put both the 55 pilot jet and the 152.5 main jet in.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Ed L. on 07/26/08 at 08:41:45

The first time I tried t open my carb I really buggered up the screws, ended up taking a small file and flat sided the screw heads. Then I was able to get in there on the flats with a small pair of channel lock pliers and get enough bite to loosen them. A small pair of vice grips will work if you can get a grip. Couldn't find replacement cap screws in stainless so just got regular steel at Ace Hardware.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Charon on 07/26/08 at 12:47:17

To make you fellers really happy, the Japanese do not use Phillips screws at all. They resemble Phillips screws, but are just different enough to evade the patents. That's why Phillips screwdrivers are not entirely satisfactory on Japanese machinery. I don't know what the Japanese call their version.

Edited to add: (I looked it up)
JIS
Commonly found in Japanese equipment. Looks like a Phillips screw, but is designed not to cam out and will, therefore, be damaged by a Phillips screwdriver if it is too tight. Heads are usually identifiable by a single dot to one side of the cross slot. The standard number is JIS B 1012:1985 (End edit)

Most of the time, I use a Phillips screwdriver one size too large. That is, on a screw which would seem to need a #1 Phillips, a #2 works better. That seems to avoid stripping most of them, if the bit will fit into the hole. It may, or may not, work for you.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by bill67 on 07/26/08 at 12:58:48

Jap bikes have always had soft screws thats so they stay tight and don't vibrate loose

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by mo.goad on 07/26/08 at 14:03:44

Will this mean that the Philip Head Screwdriver with the Tool-Kit work with the Jap version of Philip heads?

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by bill67 on 07/26/08 at 14:15:32

That screwdriver works but its hard to get much leverage with it.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Brad_THMP3R on 07/26/08 at 18:36:39

I clamp a small vise-grip on my -tool bag- screwdriver for some turnage. that is just the thing to use when taking apart the carb
RSD ;)

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rigidchop on 07/26/08 at 19:20:41

when i first took my carb apart i had the same problem, as you have read, most of us have. i took a cutoff wheel and just made the phillips into flats, worked great and i can use a pretty large flathead screwdriver. of course i now have a mikuni, but i'm keepin the stocker, ya never know.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/26/08 at 19:54:17

3A212F212C2B202738480 wrote:

Huh? Aren't they putting on the Mikuni as a stock fixture anymore?

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Charon on 07/26/08 at 20:21:19

Suzuki's web site says "Mikuni BS40". Perhaps he has a different version of the Mikuni.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rigidchop on 07/26/08 at 20:31:07

you sirs are correct,, but i have upgraded to one of lancers, and hope i never have to go back to stock. i guess i shoulda been more specific.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/26/08 at 20:35:21

When I'm around, you have to be. I'm easily bewildered. :)

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Ian on 07/28/08 at 08:40:57

i thought this thread was going to be about something else. but it's interesting anyhow.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rpgpgmr on 07/31/08 at 12:32:23

Are those Japanese versions of the Phillips available for sale in the States? I'm sick and tired of stripping screws everytime I take something apart for the first time! I've used impact screwdrivers and different sizes of Philllips, I've tried gentle, I've done everything I can think of to keep from stripping them but they're just too soft!!!!!!! When I take something off, I replace the hardware. That's the only solution that works. :(

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by bill67 on 07/31/08 at 13:24:06

You can probably get them from the dealer

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rigidchop on 07/31/08 at 18:46:22

just buy the some allen screws, much better IMO and they come in stainless.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by sidny4 on 08/01/08 at 07:33:23

So, anyone have any advice as to how I should get those soft little screws out so I can replace the white spacer? The screw extractor I got from MAC's didn't work. Can you get in there with a needle nose vicegrip?

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Robertomoe on 08/01/08 at 13:26:08

544F414F42454E4956260 wrote:

you used the cutoff wheel after you got the screws out, right?

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rigidchop on 08/01/08 at 18:03:31

nope, i couldnt get em out at all, vice grips kept slipping off, i only did it as a last resort.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Robertomoe on 08/01/08 at 21:47:18

oh, you're talking about the ones for the bowl

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by rigidchop on 08/02/08 at 06:18:40

not the ones for the bowl, the ones on top.

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by seviersavage on 08/02/08 at 07:51:14

Needle nose pliers won't reach. Dang near nothing reaches. I used a dremel with the flexible extension and a drill bit to drill the heads of the screws and then used a small easy out to break them loose. After the white spacer shave down I replaced them with 3mm screws from ace. Then used my compressor to blow out the filings and put it back together no problem.
Seviersavage

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by northshore_paul on 08/02/08 at 09:07:49

Thanks for the "how to"...now I know how to attack it. What really makes it difficult is the tight space you are working in...with no room for error otherwise I will have to retap the hole with the next larger size (4mm) and I don't know if there is enough metal there to do that, ugh ! >:(

Title: Re: Soft Screws
Post by Digger on 08/09/08 at 21:45:33

58737A6974751B0 wrote:

Here is the source I used a while back to get my JIS Phillips screwdrivers:

Ames (http://www.amessupply.com/products1.cfm?aid=1&cid=D&sid=DE&fid=1404070)

Good customer service!

IHTH!