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/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl General Category >> Rubber Side Down! >> Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help! /cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1216943674 Message started by twistedcreekfarm on 07/24/08 at 16:54:33 |
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Title: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help! Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/24/08 at 16:54:33 I think I have developed a bad exhaust valve. (super loud tick on the front top it seems. Valve clearance was normal when I had the mechanic check it at the suzuki shop. Here is what appears to have happened. Was riding bike on highway and while riding the speedometer cable appears to have vibrated loose allowing the bike to loose oil. I did not realize this until I was at an exit and than heard the bike running a bit different but nothing real noticeable. I parked the bike and went to my meeting which just happened to be right around the corner of the exit. Wehn I got out of my meeting I checked for oil of course- it was really low. I went to the corner gas station and just bought some oil - (I no know that car oil is bad but anyway it got me on the road and thought that was that) I stopped at a bike shop to get the oil changed and to have it all checked - new to motorcycles and really thought it was best to have it looked at. I got the bike back th enext day and it was sounding awesome and thought all was good- rode it for a few days than this loud ass tick was there again- even louder than ever before. I took it back in and asked what they thought was up. The mechanic first thought it was the nut came loose on the valve adjustment- he checked and said all valves were adjusted right- he than said the exhaust valve had something wrong but was not sure why. he did some more digging and put th ebike back together. he said yea th ebike doesnt sound great but thats what it is going to sound like because the exhaust valve is worn out. and something else but that was baout it- he pretty much said don't bother fixing it just ride it and dont waste putting money into it. I was kinda like what???? Anyway can you please help me - ask me some questions and give me some direction. I am very new to bikes so all this is new so keep it simple. I am willing to pay to get it fixed but feel it is weird that it sounded awesome for a few dasy than all just went to hell. How can that be and why can't it just be fixed? Is it a case he does nto know what is wrong or maybe he screwed something up when he adjusted it the first time. I am not interested really in blame more interested in making it sound good. It really sounds loud with the ticking- enough that bikers look at it and wonder if you know what I mean. it is a 1995 - with 12,000 miles on it and from what I can see taken care off does have jardine(spelling?) pipe and it also seems to be running rich or whatever makes the pipes turn purple and have black crude on the back of the bike just outside the exhaust. Please advise what to do... interested in fixing ticking first. The bike appears to have good power still and runs well- normal shifting, normal power strong starts and runs up to 75 easily- well as easy as the thumpers can go! kinda falling for the bike so want to get it some love it needs |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by thumperclone on 07/24/08 at 17:23:03 need more info: did you stop the leak from the speedo cable?? was the 11,000 mile service done ?(my 06 has 11,000 just "broke in") any record of past maint. done? i ran mine low on oil once when i first got er and had a loud tick that made me look at the site glass... when i had the first valve adjustment done they were way TOO tight.. maybe same happened to yours b4 and wasnt remedied in time??? |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/24/08 at 17:28:23 i did not do the 11,000 mile service - they did mention it to me but I thought to hold off until I had rode it a bit more. I am willing to get it done. Just didn't want to waste money. I kinda felt when they offered it too me he had just qouted me low and was truying to get more money out of me- maybe that was wrong to think that but again all new to this. What more info do you need? Like I said it did sound nice when I first picked it up and rode it the first two days. So not sure what that tells us. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by Charon on 07/24/08 at 17:29:43 You did no harm putting car oil in it. If you bought 10W-40 car oil - any brand - you did OK. Even if you bought a different grade you didn't hurt it, especially as you say you had it changed right away. The loud "ticking" immediately made me think of the valve adjustment screw coming loose and backing out. That would have been my first check. When you say the shop checked over the bike, do you know what they did? Better, how long did they take? It takes more than a few minutes to check valve clearance. For one thing, they are supposed to be checked with the engine cold. If you drove it there, they should have waited until at least the next morning to check it. For another, working on a hot engine isn't a lot of fun and the mechanic would wait till it cooled for his own comfort. The S40/Savage is a single cylinder, as you know. It uses two intake and two exhaust valves. If one of those exhaust valves worked loose, the engine would make a lot of noise, but run just fine on the other valve. The loose valve would open late and close early, but the other would keep the engine working okay until the revs got pretty high. Even then it would just lose a bit of high-end power, not quit running. It would only take a few extra thousandths of an inch to make a lot of noise. I do think you need to have it checked - or check it yourself - before too long, just in case the screw is loose. You don't want it to back all the way out and fall down into the engine. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/24/08 at 17:40:31 the mechanic did wait an hour to look at it- he did say it was best to have it cool but would try to take a look to help me figure it out. He also thought it was possibly a screw that had come loose- he said that was not the case. He did show me kinda what he was looking for but to be honest this is really new to me. I am not sure I am able to begin working on it even if I got the tools- I will over time but not sure now is the time. I will change the oil and filters of course and even begin to check the valves. Per what they did the first time when it ran well after picking it up- changed oil and filter adjusted belt, adjusted valves and did a basic safety check such as cables, brakes, tires, etc. An overview of the bike. they did also take th etime to show me how to change th eoil myself and were pretty cool to the newbie. They charged me $116 bucks. I thought ouch but figured it was a dealer and the peace of mind was worth it. But now do I take it back there again- what do I ask them to do. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/24/08 at 17:41:30 I would look at something else as well. The decomp adjustment nuts. A while back mine vibrated loose and I swear it sounded just like a loose rockerarm as you are describing. All you have to do to check is look under the left side of the tank on top of the head cover. There is a small cable that hooks to an arm, it looks similar to a throttle cable. The adjustment nuts are right there, you don't even have to pull anything off. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/24/08 at 18:03:17 ah we may be getting somewhere. He mentioned decompression as an issue - he got that info by calling in for tech support. so maybe he just didn't to dig deeper on it. I will go check it here in a few. please tell me a bit more description- so I know where it is. By the way I ordered the book for the savages off of ebay today... I guess all real bikers must be gearheads too. I can live with that. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by verslagen1 on 07/24/08 at 18:10:16 Yonuh! loud ticking! you've heard this before... ok, i'm paranoid about the cam chain. but if it can't be explained by anything else, like loss of compression, then this is worth a try. Time to check the cam chain, if it's fallen out, you got minites to fix it before it blows. tick tick tick... bam. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?num=1191167029 |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/24/08 at 18:14:50 The decompression cable is like I said on the left side of the bike just under the tank forward of the spark plug. You can see it without having to remove anything. The adjustment nuts are 10mm. Wait, scratch that, do you still have the chrome covers on the bike? If so you will have to take the tank off to see the cable. I have had my chrome off for so long I keep forgetting that the Savage/S40 comes stock with it. :-[ There is a very good thread in the Tech Ref section covering decomp adjustment. http://suzukisavage.com/cgi-bin/YaBB.pl?board=tech;action=display;num=1169356966 |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/24/08 at 18:17:06 667562637C7177757E21100 wrote:
Yes, you are right, I was working off of what he had said about what the mech had said. But of course I should know better concerning a Stealership mechanic. Verslagen is right, definitely do a cam chain check. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/08 at 18:31:29 If its the cam chain, I hope they warranty that. Well, how many miles have you put on it? |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/24/08 at 18:33:51 I'd be surprised if anyone will warranty a '95 with 12,000 miles on it. At least in this state, you buy it used, you buy it "as is." |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/24/08 at 18:43:27 Yea,, what was I thinking,, |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/08 at 11:19:41 OK, so where is the farm boy? Hope he's not sitting by the side of the road with a blown engine. :o |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/25/08 at 11:41:39 okay- you did it by thinking it. I was on the side of the road and yes the engine is blown. I have not dug into it yet but from what my frined saw he ithas a crack cylinder and who knows what else. So what do you think went wrong? Well I guess taking it to a dealer to tell me what to do was my first mistake. Can I get another engine for this thumper? or am I left with parting it out now and finding another one. Totally sucks but somehow it just seems it was destin to happen. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/08 at 11:59:17 So sorry this has happened. I'd get my money back from that worthless mechanic. Since he's worthless, you might even go after him for the cost of the engine. :o Most likely the ticking you heard was the cam chain adjuster smacking against the side case. And the final note was the chain scraping against the side and slipping out off of the sproket. Causing the cam go out of time with the piston. Piston smacking the valves. And thumpers everywhere letting out a cry. ...I felt a change in the force, as if... as if one of our own has met an untimely end. :'( |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/25/08 at 12:04:46 I agree with Verslagen, go after that worthless mechanic, and since it was a Stealership mechanic, go after the Stealership. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/25/08 at 12:13:59 okay - seriously - what is the norm for this. I do nto know that he broke it but certainly I feel they mislead me or he did something too it and is not going to stand up and admit it. Would I just be wasting my time trying to talk them into to taking some ownership? The place is Hoosier Motorsports in Auruoa, Indiana. Again I am not saying he broke it- but I do feel he gave some bad advice and didn't take the right actions to tell me how to fix it. What are the options now- do i simply have to accept the fact that it is dead - or is there a way within reason to get the bike a new engine? This is my first bike and I thought one that would be with us for a bit longer. I am pretty bummed and feel like I was naive in trusting him. Well I guess its a lesson learned a hard one- Guys I am just not sure I have the ability to be fixing engines just yet. Money wise I feel lke I got the short end of the stick. I do not feel the guy I bought it from had any wrong doing - he was a good ole guy that I feel was honest. I think I just rode the bike more than it had been for a long time and not knowingly trusted the dealership to guide me on getting it fixed and keeping it in good shape. On the other hand maybe it just happened and its not the guys fault entirely or maybe he knew it was done for and just didnt want to share the bad news with me. Not sure what to do next guys - any ideas: replace engine, part out, buy another one - give up! ...go back to riding my horse. I know when he needs a fixin! |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/25/08 at 12:26:10 hey guys it sucks with no doubt but I wasn't hurt and did not wreck. I think I will get more upset as the day goes on and worse when this weekend comes and I have nothing to ride. I am not one to trash folks easily without all the answers. Are dealer mechanics really hacks or did I just get a bad one or was it my fauklt for not knowing enough to push the subject further and trusting what he said. I really feel that if they treated my bike this way I have little hope in them treating me any different. And If I do confront them what do I ask for- simply my money back or are they even able to find an engine for it? The guy pretty much shrugged his shoulder at me yesterday and just said drive it thats what it sounds like and there was nothing he could do- his exact words were it is not the best sounding bike but you will not do any damage riding it and that he hoped I didn't have much money in it - and not to waste any more with it. Which was not exactly encouraging words. And I did kinda feel like wtf... but new to this so wasn't sure where or who to turn too. I turned to this forum which by the way is awesome- but i guess a day too late. for the future for this bike or another one- how do you find a guy worth his wrench when it comes to fixing bikes? darn this sucks! |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by Max_Morley on 07/25/08 at 12:29:24 After tear down and inspection and determining what needs to be replaced, check the marketplace on this site, and e-bay. You may find a used engine less expensive that the sum of the parts, search the web for motorcycle salvage yards. There must be some that are involved in accidents that don't damage the engine. Any engine from 96 forward should fit and work. 86-88 4 speeds can be used but need to get the electronics for the ignition and voltage regulator also. Used is always a gamble as you have no way of knowing if it was taken care of either. If your dealership technician isn't familiar with Savages he may not have know about the cam chain issue. I think it will be hard to pin them down to helping, but you might have a dealer that is willing to help some. Good luck in your efforts to find a happy solution, Max |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/25/08 at 12:33:19 I just dont know what to say.. I am just sorry this happened. I have heard guys say "Loud Ticking" followed by" Found it!" or "Blowed 'er up", but riding one thats making scary noises usually ends badly. I wish I had said Park IT,, I am sorry I didnt. man,, I hate this crap.. I hope you can get it back on the road or get another. The mechanic telling you, ride it, dont waste your money was just an expression of his lack of respect for our choice of bikes, not a rational decision based on a knowledge of the value of the bike versus the cost of repairs. You only choose to run something till iit DIES is if you know whats wrong & the rrepairs are more costly than the value of the machine. The mechanic is an arrogant jerk & the dealership will have to step up. Or, you can look for remedy thru a lawsuit. They wont want the bad PR. It looks bad when customers sue you bevcause the mechanic messed things up. I would get a private visit with the owner & calmly, politely explain what happened & the result & ask if he will help you. If he wants to take the bike in trade, as if it was in one piece & running & you buy a used bike that suits you, or if he will fix yours, buy a used engine & install it, inspecting it first.. you have options. Right now? Looks like walkin is one of them! :-/ Sorry, Dude.. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/25/08 at 12:34:00 Quote:
This statement here makes them liable for the engine damage. By telling you not to worry about it, they put you and others in danger. What would have happened if you were on a freeway or in extremely heavy traffic going the speed limit when your engine gave out? It could have been a real mess. No, you do your best to talk to that Stealership and get them to make it right. It doesn't matter that you know little to nothing about bikes. When you take a machine whether it be car or bike to a supposedly qualified mechanic, it is assumed that they know what they are doing and are supposed to fix the problem or if can't be fixed, to let you know and warn you of the dangers of operating it in that condition. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by bill67 on 07/25/08 at 12:40:40 If you run a motor low on oil you can't blame the dealer |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/25/08 at 12:51:25 guys thank you for the posts - seriously it is giving me an understanding of what to do next. I am really getting sick thinking about it now but darn it happened. And by the way I was on the freeway in traffic- I just didn't freak out and calmly got over- happily cars behind me pulled out of my way and noticed me. Oddly - I am sure none of you would do this but three motorcycles drove past me without stopping. I was shocked to see that. I did have to guys in cars that have bikes stop and offer help. Possibly the guys on the bikes saw me on the cell talking so realized I had help and was not hurt. - I have and always will stop to help another biker- just seems to be the right thing to do. I am on my way to my friends that helped me pick the bike off the side of the road. Will discuss and possibly make a visit to the dealership to ask to speak tot he owner or at least set a time to do so. Please keep your comments coming - I am learning more with each posts. I do have friends that are trashing the savage saying what did you expect - but I am not buying that per what I see on here about the bikes. Might died - I do not think that means they are bad bikes. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by verslagen1 on 07/25/08 at 13:25:12 I like what justin said, and yonuh restated the ammunition for you. Go it there and talk with them, be angry but talk calmly. show that you're upset with their service with facil expression, but talk calmly and rationaly. You're a powderkeg ready to blow if you don't get satisfaction. That and a lawyers card and a cell phone handy should let them know you're serious. I think you got cause, it's not like you ran it dry and waited for it to blow up. It was low, you went in for service, you noticed it ticking and you asked them what to do. They chose to do nothing, they could have sold you $1000 in service and missed the opportunity. 'L, we would of talked you through the whole thing and it would've cost you less than $500 in parts and tools, assuming you had none. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by skrapiron on 07/25/08 at 18:47:19 I had an exhaust valve starting to go on my engine. My oil consumption was up to about 400ml every 1000 miles. I was religious about oil changes, I used full synthetic oil, ran a heavier weight in the summer (20w50) than I did in the winter (10w40)and I made sure my valves were inspected and set to spec every 3500 miles (I used .004" right smack in the middle of the specs) The fact that I put 51,000 miles of mostly interstate riding on my little thumper is a testament to how well the bike is built. Mine could have been rebuilt. But I didn't have the time (still on the original cam chain too) and the dealer offered me a rediculous trade in value for it. The fact that yours is 13 years old and you have no idea how the PO treated the bike, then it's not outside the realm of possibilities that is was an existing problem and just finally broke. Take it back to the same mechanic and try to work something out. (like you supply parts at your cost and he supplies labor at his cost). |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by twistedcreekfarm on 07/25/08 at 19:10:09 thanks - I do agree that we will never know what/whrer the problem stemmed from. It happens- just a bum! I do plan to discuss it with the owner of the shop. I do not feel they did anything purposely wrong but I do feel they have some responsibility. I agree that what you shared is a fair compromise. I will share more as it unfolds as well as I will share with all of you as I begin to take it apart and look inside- if anything else I have learned and I will learn more as I tear the engine apart- hey I can't make it worse lol! :'( :'( |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by T Mack 1 on 07/26/08 at 07:03:47 So..... If you are willing to get your hands dirty, the bike is fix-able. The engine has been made for 20+ years so parts are out there. If you aren't willing to get your hands dirty, then it is not cost effective to fix. Could be a $2000 repair bill if you figure in the labor. Maybe more. I bought my '01 on eBay for $500 with the engine in pieces and a melted piston & bad head (cam journal worn bad). I have a friend (now really good friend ;D) that is a machinist / rider that did the cylinder work for free. Around $600 in parts ($200 for a complete used head asembly) and I have a great bike. Only issue I had was the engine was in pieces in boxes. I had to figure out where everything went. Otherwise, the engine is easy to work on. The factory manual is slightly better for engine rebuilding, the Clymer's is better for everything else. I have both ;) . If you choose to repair it, You will definitely need a manual. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by Max_Morley on 07/26/08 at 09:16:31 And Savage Greg's CD for the unexplained bit and pieces. Max |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by justin_o_guy2 on 07/26/08 at 09:22:12 Twisted, check you PM's |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by Sandy Koocanusa on 07/26/08 at 12:31:43 163A2304163429373E225B0 wrote:
Yep. What Max said. That is one fantastic collection of images. Every Savage owner should have a copy. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by YonuhAdisi on 07/26/08 at 12:32:51 Eventually I will be getting the CD as well, money is just a bit tight at the moment. |
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Title: Re: Bad exhaust valve... loud ticking- please help Post by eanon on 07/26/08 at 14:39:34 The CD along with a real manual and you can do anything that needs to be done. Sorry to hear about the bike. Another thumper bites the dust..... :'( (We can rebuild her. We have the technology to make her stronger, faster.....) |
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